Freewheel

The 87 22R I rebuilt 3000 miles ago is still using a quart of oil every 250 miles. It’s not leaking a drop, I can park over clean concrete as soon as I get off the highway and don’t get a drop off it. I did a leakdown test with 90 psi and have 1 1/2 percent leakage, through the rings ( out the PCV hose). I have no idea what that indicates for the rings.
Seems to me the rings didn’t seat but if that’s the case wouldn’t the oil be lost into the combustion chamber and cause smoke? There’s no smoke that I can detect at any speed. Just want to make sure it’s the rings before I take it back out. I used LCE’s best street rings, that have a moly top ring, a cast iron second ring and stainless oil rings.
Ive always headed straight for the pass to break in my rings and have always had very good breakins. This time it took longer to get to the pass because I was fiddling around a lot with a new carburetor. But like I said I don’t know if bad ring break-in results in smoke.
thanks much

Jimkola

leakdown test.

millball

I rebuilt an '87 22re a few years ago, and the new NPR rings failed to seat.
The machine shop had failed to hone the cylinders with the 220 grit hone I had requested,
They gave me a line about 'plateau honing' with a fine final cut being the correct way.
I foolishly listened to them.
I had to tear down and re-ring after coarse honing.
Although I have had good results with NPR rings in the past, I used Hastings Moly rings the second time around.
I really feel that the fine grit honing was what buggered it up the first time.
The engine has run near 25 thousand miles since, and is running well with no oil consumption.

Freewheel

Thanks, that could have been the problem because I didn’t think to even bring up the honing with the machinist because I hadn’t taken the time to research what my type rings needed. I figured that since their first honing worked really well, I’d trust them again.
LC Engineering which specializes in Toyota trucks carries Hastings but they had another brand they claimed was better so I ordered those. Both however had the same type I mentioned: cast second ring and moly top ring.
When you re-ringed it did you bore it again? I’m thinking another hone might add too much wall to piston clearance which is supposed to be a mere 6 tenths thousands to one and a half thousandths.
That shop did a 3.5 thou clearance on the previous 22R which prompted me to ask for another boring but the boss man got upset saying there was nothing wrong with 3-4 thou. so I took it as it was. Well it’s got 95,000 miles on it and still uses no oil but at 10,000 started piston slapping something awful. I ran it anyway and after another 60,00 it stopped slapping, and is now perfectly quiet. But I still don’t want a big clearance. I’m thinking it’s at 2 thou now and a honing will take another thou? Not sure

Freewheel

My first post says I did a leak down test, at 90 psi, and it has 1 1/2 percent leakage, and that it was through the rings because the leak was coming out the PCV hose. I then said I had no idea what that indicated as for the rings. Do you?

Freewheel

To anyone looking for more info on sealing rings I suggest looking up the thread “85-95 22R 22RE Piston Ring Sealing by trainwreckinseattle 6-29-2010. Lots of good info from an industry specialist. But I wonder why there is no mention of breakin driving technique. I’ve read in several places that it’s important to run the engine hot and up the steepest grade available and as soon as possible after installation

millball

I did not bore again, I just scuffed up well with the 220 hone.

It is my experience that most ring seating is done in the first ten or fifteen minutes of engine operation.
I run with a heavy foot up short of 4000 revs and let off and decelerate in first gear about 8 or ten times, and then run short trips for a couple hundred miles without holding any steady speed for long.
This regime on coarse honing has served me well building dozens of different engines.
This 22re was the first oil burner I ever built.

Freewheel

Thanks, did you pull the motor? I wonder if the pan or head can come off without pulling it

millball

I did not pull the engine.
On IFS machines, the front differential must be removed to drop the oil pan, but that's not really a big job,
Especially when you've done that a half dozen times, for different reasons.
The head comes off with no problems.
I left the lower intake on.

Freewheel

Thank you. Did you remove the pistons? Crank? I know machinists like to be se lots of fluid washing the walls as they hone. If you used fluid, what kind? Some say gasoline works fine.

millball

Of course, the pistons must be removed.
With the block still in the truck, the crankshaft remains in place.
Keeping the crank and crankcase clean of honing grit is the hardest part.
It can be done.
I use plenty clean, absorbent cotton rags over the crank, topped with a plastic plate cut from a coffee can lid.
This helps to keep the hone from grabbing up the rags.
I use kerosene for honing fluid. Just enough to keep the walls wet without flooding the crankcase.
Gasoline is too flammable to be safe.
It is important to scrub the cylinder walls with a rag with hot water and dish soap when finished.

Jimkola

My bad, read poorly. But 1.5% Leakdown is stellar, so no, based on that I wouldn’t have an answer. But Millball’s rec seem the most logical. The only thing I could think of that would allow this much oil use, but give good leakdown numbers, would be an issue with the oil rings on the pistons

Freewheel

[QUOTE=millball;52497210]Of course, the pistons must be removed.
With the block still in the truck, the crankshaft remains in place.
Keeping the crank and crankcase clean of honing grit is the hardest part.
It can be done.
I use plenty clean, absorbent cotton rags over the crank, topped with a plastic plate cut from a coffee can lid.
This helps to keep the hone from grabbing up the rags.
I use kerosene for honing fluid. Just enough to keep the walls wet without flooding the crankcase.
Gasoline is too flammable to be safe.
It is important to scrub the cylinder walls with a rag with hot water and dish soap when finished.[/QUOTE

Thanks. I’ll do that. I thought you said before you took the front end out? Or just the diff? I can’t find that now. And the tie rod?
I suspected I was as taking too long getting the carb and tuneup right. Next time I’ll make sure everything is set to go

millball

The front diff must be removed to facilitate the removal of the oil pan.

Blueman

Pull the plugs and look inside with a borescope. You'll see right away if you have a glazing problem.

Freewheel

thanks very much. I’ve never heard of a bore scope before. If it’s glazed will I see any hone cross lines?

Blueman

I'd search the web for images on glazing. Essentially, it can come from being too nice to your engine early on in the break-in process. Read some here (https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/...azing-get-rid/) and elsewhere on the web.