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Well, we Got everything hooked up. Turned the key and she purred like a kitten. Would you imagine that I got the dizzy stabbed in the perfect spot on the first time? Man, it feels so good to finally have this thing running.....
did you really think it went off without a hitch? Did I get you? If so, shame on you, you should know better by now.the way it actually went was.
No. Fire. Nada. Zilch. Tried for about 5 minutes. Took off the coil and saw that the plug looked questionable(dirty). So cleaned it up with some sandpaper. Slapped it back on and nothing. Few seconds later it backfired for the first time. Got really excited then. But still no fire. Just crank crank crank.
next up was removing the #1 spark plug to make sure it's at 0tdc. Once again, used the "finger over the plug hole until it's blown off from pressure" trick. Only, the charge pipe was in the way. So, go through the hassle of removing the charge pipe and all the associated coolant and vacuum lines with it and turn the motor by hand to TDC. Pull off dizzy cap and verify that it is indeed pointed at #1. Clean up the contacts with a bit of sandpaper. Also cleaned up the edge of the rotor. Trying to promote better spark and whatnot. And for good measure, held the spark plug near the motor and verified spark. That didn't work either. So, I tried loosening the dizzy retaining bolt and trying to cycle it by hand as Doomy cranked it over. Aaaaaand...
so right now, I'm stumped and pissed off. We verified it's got fuel because it reeked of fad when we pulled the spark plug. It's got spark because we checked that. I can hear the VAFM flop about inside the airbox, so it's got air.
grounds are good. when i was having problems with the starter earlier i redid a few of the grounds and made sure i sanded the contact points. Its got spark. its was arcing off the block from the spark plug.
I would suspect timing. Try with the timing light on while cranking. Also I noticed from you first video that the clamp to your charge pipe from the TB is loose.
so, posted on Instagram the video and chefyota responded and told me to that it sounded dumb, but to check my firing order with my plug wires.
*facepalm*
when I threw everything on I was trying to make it look nice and didn't even realize that I never set the firing order. Just for an FYI, the firing order is NOT 1-2-3-4.......yeah.
also picked up 5 gallons of gas. I had drained all the old fuel out a few months back and at the time I had a gas can with me, I also only had 5 bucks. So less than a gallon and a half of fuel was in the tank during the initial fire last night. I had a suspicion that the fuel pump was sucking air because while the spark plug had some residual fuel on it, it wasn't soaked like it SHOULD have been.
Notice anything? Mainly the fact that it's got a lope to it that would put a John Deere tractor to shame. Yea. Well, turns out that it isn't running right. Tried everything to get it to come out of its stupor. As a last minute thought as we were leaving the shop for the night, I pulled the spark plug wires from the cap one by one aaaaand..........cylinders 2 & 3 are not firing. No change in engine behavior at all. Verified spark at the cap as I was putting then back on and it's fine. So, next process is going to be me using the stethoscope to see if the injectors are firing. Other than that, I'm at a loss for what to check. I really don't want to pull the intake off again, but I might have to. Only thought about if the injectors aren't firing is that I screwed something up when changing their tails.
now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it shouldn't matter which way they are wired, right? It's just a pulse signal to tell them to open. I'm just curious as to why 2 whole cylinders aren't firing.
I don't think polarity matters on the injectors. However i think that injectors 1 and 3 are wired together and 2 and 4 wired together. They share a ground. If you mixed up the wiring to two of the injectors they may not fire at the correct time.
someone with more knowledge of the wiring would have to chime in. Maybe rad4unner has the answer
sooooo, when talking to a coworker, he asked me what the fuel rail looked like and if it had a schrader valve type port on it. while trying to find pics of my fuel rail and injector location, i stumbled across the pics from when i replaced the injector pigtails. i think i might have, maybe, hopefully, mixed up the 2 & 3 injector plugs. if its that simple, ill be a happy happy man. ill update more later after i get some work done to it.
edit: this pic shows what I'm talking about.
Last edited by space-junk; 07-21-2017 at 07:47 PM.
Not really sure if I've made forward progress tonight or not. Started out by pulling the 2 and 3 plugs and verifying that they weren't flooded. That was mainly to easy my fear that the misfire would cause a bent valve if it flooded the cylinder with unburnt fuel. There wasn't a whole lot of fuel in there(stuck a rolled up paper towel into the soark plug hole), but the #2 spark plug was BLACK and the #3 looked brand new. Not sure what that was about. Cleaned the plug up and reinstalled. Cranked the motor and got misfire city again. So, I conned Doomy into reaching her hands down between the plenum and valve cover to switch the wiring harnesses for the 2 & 3 injectors. Finally got it and we were greeted with a motor that fired and purred beautifully...then died. Cranked it again and same. Only this time it ran for 2 seconds instead of 3. Tried to start it again and it just cranked. No fire, like it was starved for fuel. Let it sit for a minute while me and my dad discussed possibilities. Decided to give her another shot and the whole process repeated again. Runs perfect for a few seconds then nothing. Trying to see if unplugging the CSI had any impact on it, I unplugged it, but nada. No change. Cracked the line and ended up spraying fuel all over my dad and myself. So we can verify that the fuel pump is building pressure.
We called it quits there because we were both at a loss for what's going on. I've spent hours researching things. Not sure what I'm gonna try first. If there's anything you guys think I should check, let me know.
-jumper fuel pump and try to start.
-check AFM for proper voltage output.
-check AFM door and verify it's triggering the fuel pump.
-check C/O relay.
as a last ditch effort, I will pull the plenum back off and check the fuel rail and injectors to make sure they are clean and not clogged. They were rebuilt 5 years ago by witchhunter and have sat in a sealed(and slightly oily) zip lock bag, so they shouldn't have had a chance to be contaminated.
And literally as I was hitting the post button an idea struck me. I read in a thread about a 22re not wanting to run like this because the injectors weren't grounded properly. Now, tonight me and my dad both used my stethoscope to listen to the injectors and didn't hear anything. Granted, neither of us knew what to listen for, so we dismissed it as worthless to try. However it struck me odd that I didn't hear something other than motor. And I was just thinking about that thread. And then I got to thinking.......im not sure if I have the ground hooked up to the plenum.... I don't have the ability to check until tomorrow night, but... If that's the whole issue, I'm gonna be pissed. I've gone over the grounds before and made sure they were all connected, but I don't know for sure if I did that before or after I had the upper intake plenum off for the umpteenth time. So, I guess I need to add that to the list of things to check first.
but still, any help is greatly appreciated. And the more layman, the better. Lol.
I am officially dead in the water. I only have 1 thing left to check and in order to do that, I have to pull the intake apart. I checked the ground and while it was in the wrong position, it was installed. I checked the fuel injectors and could actually hear them tapping away. They werent last night. Dunno what changed. I checked the fuel pump by jumpering the diagnostic port and cycling the ignition and I could hear the COR kicking over. I even remlve the lid from the AFM so i could watch/hear the door moving and theres no issue there. After that point, doomy left to go check on the girls, but she left the key in the on position with the fuel pump jumpered. Me and my dad were trying to track down a hissing sound that we heard while the fuel pump was on. As soon as we pulled the jumper, hiss disappears. Put the jumper back and hiss returns. I went to the truck to try and crank the motor again and it actually fires and stays running. It is clearly misfiring still, but it's staying running under its own power. However, misfire is still on 2 and 3 cylinder. She revs begrudgingly but doesn't die. Shut her off and then on again and she fires right up. Pull the plug wires off the cap again and we still have good spark, but no change in idle.
I just don't understand. Only thing I have left to do is check if the injectors are getting proper voltage. If they are, then I have to pull the intake off and check the injectors themselves.
The weird thing about this whole situation is that when I pulled the spark plugs, all were wet except 3. And 2 and 4 were black. It just makes ZERO sense. If anyone can help figure this out, please feel free to throw out suggestions.
here are the pics and videos I took tonight. At the instruction of vital22re, I took 2 videos, 1 with plugs in and 1 with plugs out; both with no efi fuse.
You double checked your valves?
had an issue with my wifes rebuilt 302 where it backfired and wanted to die as soon as it warmed up, missing on 2 cylinders.
Loosened the rockers and re-torqued to spec and it all cleared up. The hydraulic lifters were dry the previous time the torque was checked, so the valves weren't closing (that's my assumption anyway, or the PO just over torqued them)
Also, no real reason to suspect the following, but easy to check:
Voltage to the coil is good
Run it with the lights off and make sure you're not getting any sparks anywhere you don't want them
Well, many hours in the shop last night and no steps forward, but a few steps sideways. I think the conclusion that several knowledgeable people have come to is that I need to pull the injectors.
we started off pulling plugs and doing a compression test.
1-119
2-131
3-130
4-119
so, that's all normal. (This is a turbo so the compression is lower)
next we moved onto checking to see if the injectors themselves were getting a pulse signal. I spent a good while on the phone with vitaly and he explained how and what to do. Unfortunately the first thing he wanted me to do was to get a test light and check the injector harness to make sure that the efi was pulsing the injectors. Unfortunately, ours had disappeared somewhere along the way from moving all the tools to the shop. Luckily, I'm a recheck. I remembered that I had the pigtails that came with the new corner lamps for the runner and I didn't use them. So ibtool them, cut the connector off the end, and found a 194 bulb to stick in it. Put an extension on the leads and terminated them with a spade that I cut one leg off of.
Good news is that it worked. Bad news is that only thing it proved is that all of the injectors are getting pulsed. Basically, the conclusion that we have come to is that I need to tear down the intake and swap the injectors around and pray that the miss follows them. I really don't want to do that, but I have no other option at this point. If the miss doesn't follow the injectors, then the ECU is toast. Either way, I'm screwed because this isn't gonna be cheap.
either your spark on 2 and 4 is bad or your fuel delivery on 1 and 3 is bad.
i haven't followed your thread 100%, did this run before you started on it? Is your spark on all plugs bright white/blue or dull orange/yellow.
Did you solder your injector tails or just twist wire?
is your tps good?
i have 4 87 injectors laying in my tool box, they are not for turbo but if you have to pull it apart i could send you a couple for testing purposes. I also have the oem resistor box, since i went bosch 4 hole with mine and no longer use the box
either your spark on 2 and 4 is bad or your fuel delivery on 1 and 3 is bad.
i haven't followed your thread 100%, did this run before you started on it? Is your spark on all plugs bright white/blue or dull orange/yellow.
Did you solder your injector tails or just twist wire?
is your tps good?
i have 4 87 injectors laying in my tool box, they are not for turbo but if you have to pull it apart i could send you a couple for testing purposes. I also have the oem resistor box, since i went bosch 4 hole with mine and no longer use the box
several people have said that they actually look fine considering the motor has yet to be at operating temp. Lol. Motor ran before being pulled and rebuilt.
spark is white/blue and the injector pigtails were crimped on and heat shrink/electrical taped over. Didn't want to solder because of the old theory that the heat cycles will cause solder to become brittle. Yes tps is/was good 2 months ago when installed. Resistor box checks good. Im nlt sure the N/A i jectors would be helpful. They're 100cc too small. But thanks for the offer.
Alright. So, ended up getting the injectors swapped around at the request of a few folks. That was a fun 2 days and 6 total times of removing and reinstalling the intake. And fuel rail. Probably ran through a gallon of gas spilling out from the fuel rail and all over my hands. And also shredded a set of o-rings which, btw, are 3 bucks a piece. But I finally got the injectors swapped around. But now....it won't stay running again. Just runs for 2 seconds then dies. I tried jumping the fuel pump diagnostic and for some reason, the diagnostic port wasn't kicking the pump on. I also didn't get a positive click from the COR when hitting the ignition. HOWEVER, if I shove a screwdriver into the AFM, I can hear the fuel pump kick on when the key is in the on position, and the motor will crank and run. I can control the throttle via the flapper door in the AFM, but not with the throttle itself and after it's running, it won't idle. It'll die when I pull the screwdriver.
I don't get what is wrong or why. Vitaly now believes the fuel pump might not be working correctly, but also thinks the motor still has a miss. It seemed like it was running better than it was before, but I couldn't verify that due to it not idling.
so, tomorrow, I'm going to run a wire(fused w/10amp fuse) from the fuel pump to the battery and try to hotwire it. See if I can get it to trip that way. If that doesn't work, then I guess the fuel pump is shot? I'm still open to other suggestions to try. If anyone has a spare COR for me to try, I'd be really appreciative.
the RET VAFM is specific. its so infuriating having application specific parts. especially an application that was never fully supported to begin with!!
I dont think its the fuel pump either, but itll be nice to rule it out. as for testing the AFM, i will be doing that tonight using 4crawlers writeup. Also gonna use his writeup to test the TPS again. after that, ill start cutting open the loom to manually inspect wires, but that is so tedious that i want to save that for last.
the weirdest thing to me is that the FP&B+ wasnt working using a jumper. no matter how i moved it, nada. im not sure what that means. I also have 4crawlers writeup on how to check the COR, but that is VERY hard for my mind to wrap around, so thatll be a last resort as well.
07-20-2017, 12:50 AM
