That is good information and a great explaination. You are absolutely right that grounding usually is the noise issue.

I misunderstood his set up, I thought he was running an aftermarket amp from the speaker level outputs. In my case, my amp (aftermarket) has a line level converter built in, thus no noise. I have always treated the aftermarket amps and headunit as just a headunit with some amplification built in since most have little to no power anyway. One thing that helped in my situation is, my amp is very versitile and tunable.

 

I agree...OSIRIS, that is very good info. (missed it when I was answering another question )

nieuwendyk-25, I did have an aftermarket amp installed at first, but due to a very small bit of noise I removed it. However, I picked up even more noise w/o it. So I ripped out all my aftermarket wiring and tapped into the wiring at each door.

How OSIRIS explained it, it makes sense how I was getting noise even after I removed the amp.

 

Ohhh! Okaaay! (in a Jerry Seinfeld voice) That is what I was thinking....my lack of sleep is begining to make me doubt my thoughts...

Man this has been a PITB for you! Running the wires was not fun (especially the thick stuff I used)....I would hate to have to rip it out. The OEM amp wasn't enough for my components.

Glad you solved the problem!

 

Thanks. It was a real pain!

Wish I didn't have to use the stock amp either, but until I decide on a permenant work around, I'll have to keep using it. If anything, I learned a ton about stereo equipment doing this install.

 

Yes you can the speakers you can get from crutchfield. And they make a rca hook up for the radio that you have to wirer into the speaker wires that come off the radio

 

Wait a minute thought!

Just for clarification......It does not matter if it is stock wire or aftermarket wire? If they are plugging into the same place (which I have not confirmed), there should be no issue. There is a positive and negative for each speaker coming out of the amp. Whether they connect to a "common ground" inside the amp or not is not an issue because all we have changed is the speaker, and the wire (unless it was not connected this way, then it would be the wiring not the wire). The stock speakers are not grounded at the speaker frame so there is no difference there (just to clarify that).

Also, the amp being grounded now, takes the noise away....was it not mounted (grounded by chassis) before? I don't see what has changed that has now solved the problem. He got noise when he moved the amp, not when it was in its proper place.

Now, all of that said, I could see there being a problem with an aftermarket amp installed. But it was removed. And yes you would need a line level converter if your amp does not have speaker level inputs, but he was having very little noise with this set up. Every HU has some sort of amplification. You can use speaker level outputs from another amp or HU...if this is your only choice (like from an OEM setup), but as stated by OSIRIS, you must convert them using a line level converter (if you are converting them to line level or RCA inputs); You do not have to do this if you are using an amp with speaker level inputs as this is a line level converter built into the amp (though depending on the amp quality as OSIRIS stated, it may have some distortion). If you spliced RCA's off the speaker wires (which I think this is what was said at one point) and then plugged into the amp's RCA input....then yes that is a no, no...it would cause noise and distortion (which are two different things). At higher volumes this would be bad for the amp, speakers, and your ears.

 

This is a line level converter. The speakers don't have to change.

 

If you have a decent amp with speaker level inputs, it will work just fine. Or use a line level converter (you can get one cheap) as we have talked about. It would be worth wiring it all up and taking a listen first if in doubt (in other word don't run the wires yet).

What kind of amp do you have? Does it have speaker level inputs? If so how did you connect them and did that give noise or distortion.

 

This is the amp I have:

http://www.clarion.com/us/en/product...294762688.html

It has speaker level ins for the fronts and rears. I originally had my amp wired this way. (I also had all new speaker wiring too that is now ripped out.) When the amp was installed w/ the speaker level ins, I got just a tiny bit of distortion. It could only be heard when a CD was changing tracks or listening to a talk show. It was very low.

OSIRIS recommended the following in a previous PM:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-jrjx876...display=XL#Tab

If you look at the left side of the picture, you will see the words 'common ground'. Call around stereo shops in B'ham and pick up one of these.
Scosche SLC4

Might give this a shot.

 

If you use the positive and negative connections coming from the OEM amp and run your own set of wires. You may have some noise. Rockslide experienced this. The stock wiring in its common ground set up may ground itself at another location other than the amp whether it has neg wires coming off for speaker connections or not. That is why if you are using a common ground stereo set up like the Toyo one, then you should not only go into the speaker level input on the amp, but go through the line level converter that has a common ground configuration and an additional ground to help remove all noise and be properly grounded for pre-amp applications. Then you hook up your amp, properly grounded and run new wires from the amp to the speakers or crossover if you have components.

I couldn't tell you if the Toyo had an additional ground in the stock speaker wiring, but he went out of the stock amp speaker terminals and use new speaker wire for + and -. He experienced noise. He took out the after market speaker wire and hooked the stock speaker wire back up to the stock amp and connected the stock speaker wires to the speakers or crossover for components. The stock speaker wires obviously provided some sort of additional ground somewhere in the system.

I read up on his amp. It is fine. I think it just needs the Scosche part from the stock speaker connections and your are good. Only way to really know is do it. Or trace the entire speaker wiring.

Screw it, just do it.

 

With that being said, if you don't mind, will you explain to me how I should route everything? (Not being sarcastic, I really want to know.)

Pretend as though you're a math teacher teaching Calculus to a class of 1st graders...and I'm one of those children in your class . I know I'd reinstall my aftermarket amp under my seat, but as far as routing the wires from the HU to the amp, then to coverter, then to the speakers and back through, how should I do it to correclty (fingers crossed) to have no noise?

 

Alright, I'm with you! It's a cheap try...(at $19)

I can tell you with 99.9999% certainty that the speaker wires are not grounded somewhere else. I will bet it is either a ground problem with the aftermarket amp, or a weak line level converter built into the amp. As you know, all amps are not created equal even though their "stats" may make them sound like they are.

I did not have this problem with mine. I actually bought a line level converter, that I didn't use and would be glad to mail it to you if you want to try it.

One other question, was the new wiring ever tested with the OEM amp?
I am just clarifying, I am bound and determined to rule out the wiring (ha ha ha...)!

ROCK SLIDE, where do you live, I'm on my way over! Just Kidding....My interest is peaked now.....I will be real interested to see if it works....

 

Great, come on over! I need all the help I can get.

I was in Katy, TX January '06 buying a 4Runner for my wife. After we bought it, we drove 700 miles back home. Fun trip...I think you need to do it.


Hang on to that line level converter for me, I might take you up on that very soon.

Clarify what you mean when you say "was the new wiring ever tested with the OEM amp?"

 

I skimmed through this....

I wonder it the OEM head unti runs "rca leves" tot he OEM amp?

 

What I meant was did you run the speakers on the aftermarket wiring from the Toyota amp, and if so was their noise.

I was understanding the new wire was only in use with the aftermarket amp.

Or in otherwords (possibly more confusing) I was wondering if the same problem existed if you bypassed the stock wiring and went right to the speakers from the Toyota amp. This might seem like a meaningless test, but it would rule out an issue with the aftermarket wire and the way it was wired. You could do this without actually tucking it under the carpet, etc.

 

It probably does, but I have never seen a wiring diagram for that harness. It would be cool if someone made a harness to plug in between the HU to bypass the amp all together and come out with RCA lineouts.

 

Factory wiring diagram doenst have it?

 

It might, but I am not sure if it is that specialized since there are a lot of different radios. That's a good question!

 

Okay, originally the new speakers went through the new wiring, then through the aftermarket amp and then they tapped into the oem wiring right after the oem amp. With that setup, I got a minimal amount of noise.

So after I removed only the aftermarket amp, the new speakers then ran through the new wiring and tapped into the oem wiring immeadiately after the oem amp. When I turned on the radio this time, that's when the noise became more pronounced.

However, looking back on it now, I did not reinstall the oem amp and HU all the way back in their places in the dash. Anotherwords, every wiring test I performed to get rid of the noise, both the oem amp and HU sat just outside the dash next to the gear shifter. With all the different wiring scenarios I tried, the oem amp and HU were never fully installed.

I know this opens the door for more questions as to what might have worked and what might not have worked...ie to rid myself of the noise. Therefore, I'm still open to the idea that an aftermarket amp can still be added after the oem amp & HU and not cause any noise.

When you said:

I was wondering if the same problem existed if you bypassed the stock wiring and went right to the speakers from the Toyota amp.

You mean, just take some new wiring, run it from one speaker and tap it directly into the oem wiring right behind the oem amp? If that's what you had in mind, would I be able to do this to only 1 speaker, or would I have to do it to all of them? You're right, it wouldn't take long to test, b/c I would not be hiding any of this wiring under the carpet.


I've got a couple wiring diagrams I picked up from the dealer. I can take a picture of them tonight and post them here to see if that helps any.

 

Don't know if it matters or not, but this was how I originally installed my aftermarket amp w/ RCAs (I had an aftermarket HU for 2 days before I pulled out it and reinstalled my oem HU. Long story short, have not found an afttermarket HU I like):








The next picture shows how I ran the wires:

RED = Power wire
BLUE = Speaker Door wires
GREEN = RCAs (which later became speaker level ins)
ORANGE = Ground wire
YELLOW = Remote wire





And here it is when I had the speaker level ins hooked up instead of the RCAs: