Washington Wet Wheelers
06-24-2014 | 07:30 AM
#323
I think some people who went on the trip didn't know what they were getting into. Things go wrong when you wheel. That is part of the experience. Having people get pissed off because I lead us down a wrong trail is unacceptable. It was my first time same as it was all of yours. Having nothing but a 14 year old map means we are going to go down the wrong way from time to time. It was my least enjoyable experience so far as far as interactions goes. The trails themselves were some of the best yet.
06-24-2014 | 08:43 AM
#324
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Well I was actually going more towards grouping better to keep from separating etc. My main concern was trying to get footage of everyone (really noticed this when I was cutting the video) but since I was pulling up the rear I kept missing you and Brendan when you would hit obstacles.
But, your comment brings up a couple things and since stated here I will respond here in kind.
- I think some people who went on the trip didn't know what they were getting into. Things go wrong when you wheel. -
Things do indeed go wrong when you wheel, its part of the sport. With that said, trips should be tailored towards the capabilities of the group (considering how small a group we are currently). All in all the group is eager, but with some of them being new to the sport spending time getting them familiar with using their vehicles and taking direction (spotting, etc) will build a good foundation for future runs.
I know there was some frustration on the trails, but I think a bit of planning and communication (will outline more in detail below) will help to alleviate that some.
- Having people get pissed off because I lead us down a wrong trail is unacceptable. -
I don't think anyone was necessarily pissed. The only part I questioned was the offshoot where we had to reverse and that was strictly because the very first drop after the root should have been an indicator the trail was going to be too rough. My concern was that you were much further down the trail before the call to back up was made.
That said we all made it out ok, and in reflection I actually enjoyed that part oddly enough. All in all it was a learning experience, and should be considered as such without letting emotion concerning it get the best of everyone.
- It was my first time same as it was all of yours. -
And that is fine, which I why I felt a run like Tahuya would be a good run to hit. It has a mix of stuff which will allow us to work out the kinks and bond, as well as build confidence for the newer wheelers.
- Having nothing but a 14 year old map means we are going to go down the wrong way from time to time. -
Totally understandable, and I don't think anyone faults you for that (I know I don't).
- It was my least enjoyable experience so far as far as interactions goes. The trails themselves were some of the best yet. -
Here is where I will be a little more direct. You are just as responsible for this experience as we are. To be honest I am a bit dismayed at your response in whole and I am wondering if this was the last trip for me with the Washington Wet Wheelers. I really like everyone in the club and the night before the trip was the most fun I have had group camping, but if the trips we undertake will only end in hurt feelings.. then it really seems self-defeating.
Mistakes and misunderstandings happen, but dealing and learning from those is what makes the difference in how the group will cohere in the future. I think the following will be needed for the future in order for this to continue and grow.
- Clear start for departure with a quick pre-run meeting to cover vehicle order and outline the plan. As well we should designate a spotter and who will be filming the group so we can be sure there in place to get footage as much as possible. Video is not just a cool reminder of the trip but serves as a recruiting aid.
- Learn and follow trail etiquette, such as:
1. Do your best to keep the person behind you in site and always stay in communication range.
2. When there is a turn or fork, wait for the person behind you (just in case we do get separated some) before moving on.
3. When you go through an obstacle please wait for others to get through before moving forward (unless the group agrees to have those in front advance).
4. Though the group should pace itself for the slowest member of the group as much as possible, please be sure you are doing your best to keep up with the persons in front of you (within reason of course).
5. Most importantly... HAVE FUN! We all have moments of frustration, the thing to keep in mind those is that those around you are there to help you. There is no judgement if you have problems or breakage.. its all part of the experience so just know that we all have your back!
OH and one other thing... we probably should not discuss trail choices when we all have had a fair amount of alcohol lol. I feel some of the grumbling about the trail difficulty the night before the run was likely more to do with inebriation than anything else lol.
But, your comment brings up a couple things and since stated here I will respond here in kind.
- I think some people who went on the trip didn't know what they were getting into. Things go wrong when you wheel. -
Things do indeed go wrong when you wheel, its part of the sport. With that said, trips should be tailored towards the capabilities of the group (considering how small a group we are currently). All in all the group is eager, but with some of them being new to the sport spending time getting them familiar with using their vehicles and taking direction (spotting, etc) will build a good foundation for future runs.
I know there was some frustration on the trails, but I think a bit of planning and communication (will outline more in detail below) will help to alleviate that some.
- Having people get pissed off because I lead us down a wrong trail is unacceptable. -
I don't think anyone was necessarily pissed. The only part I questioned was the offshoot where we had to reverse and that was strictly because the very first drop after the root should have been an indicator the trail was going to be too rough. My concern was that you were much further down the trail before the call to back up was made.
That said we all made it out ok, and in reflection I actually enjoyed that part oddly enough. All in all it was a learning experience, and should be considered as such without letting emotion concerning it get the best of everyone.
- It was my first time same as it was all of yours. -
And that is fine, which I why I felt a run like Tahuya would be a good run to hit. It has a mix of stuff which will allow us to work out the kinks and bond, as well as build confidence for the newer wheelers.
- Having nothing but a 14 year old map means we are going to go down the wrong way from time to time. -
Totally understandable, and I don't think anyone faults you for that (I know I don't).
- It was my least enjoyable experience so far as far as interactions goes. The trails themselves were some of the best yet. -
Here is where I will be a little more direct. You are just as responsible for this experience as we are. To be honest I am a bit dismayed at your response in whole and I am wondering if this was the last trip for me with the Washington Wet Wheelers. I really like everyone in the club and the night before the trip was the most fun I have had group camping, but if the trips we undertake will only end in hurt feelings.. then it really seems self-defeating.
Mistakes and misunderstandings happen, but dealing and learning from those is what makes the difference in how the group will cohere in the future. I think the following will be needed for the future in order for this to continue and grow.
- Clear start for departure with a quick pre-run meeting to cover vehicle order and outline the plan. As well we should designate a spotter and who will be filming the group so we can be sure there in place to get footage as much as possible. Video is not just a cool reminder of the trip but serves as a recruiting aid.
- Learn and follow trail etiquette, such as:
1. Do your best to keep the person behind you in site and always stay in communication range.
2. When there is a turn or fork, wait for the person behind you (just in case we do get separated some) before moving on.
3. When you go through an obstacle please wait for others to get through before moving forward (unless the group agrees to have those in front advance).
4. Though the group should pace itself for the slowest member of the group as much as possible, please be sure you are doing your best to keep up with the persons in front of you (within reason of course).
5. Most importantly... HAVE FUN! We all have moments of frustration, the thing to keep in mind those is that those around you are there to help you. There is no judgement if you have problems or breakage.. its all part of the experience so just know that we all have your back!
OH and one other thing... we probably should not discuss trail choices when we all have had a fair amount of alcohol lol. I feel some of the grumbling about the trail difficulty the night before the run was likely more to do with inebriation than anything else lol.
Last edited by Webbuff; 06-24-2014 at 08:48 AM.
06-24-2014 | 09:29 AM
#325
Well I was actually going more towards grouping better to keep from separating etc. My main concern was trying to get footage of everyone (really noticed this when I was cutting the video) but since I was pulling up the rear I kept missing you and Brendan when you would hit obstacles.
But, your comment brings up a couple things and since stated here I will respond here in kind.
- I think some people who went on the trip didn't know what they were getting into. Things go wrong when you wheel. -
Things do indeed go wrong when you wheel, its part of the sport. With that said, trips should be tailored towards the capabilities of the group (considering how small a group we are currently). All in all the group is eager, but with some of them being new to the sport spending time getting them familiar with using their vehicles and taking direction (spotting, etc) will build a good foundation for future runs.
I know there was some frustration on the trails, but I think a bit of planning and communication (will outline more in detail below) will help to alleviate that some.
- Having people get pissed off because I lead us down a wrong trail is unacceptable. -
I don't think anyone was necessarily pissed. The only part I questioned was the offshoot where we had to reverse and that was strictly because the very first drop after the root should have been an indicator the trail was going to be too rough. My concern was that you were much further down the trail before the call to back up was made.
That said we all made it out ok, and in reflection I actually enjoyed that part oddly enough. All in all it was a learning experience, and should be considered as such without letting emotion concerning it get the best of everyone.
- It was my first time same as it was all of yours. -
And that is fine, which I why I felt a run like Tahuya would be a good run to hit. It has a mix of stuff which will allow us to work out the kinks and bond, as well as build confidence for the newer wheelers.
- Having nothing but a 14 year old map means we are going to go down the wrong way from time to time. -
Totally understandable, and I don't think anyone faults you for that (I know I don't).
- It was my least enjoyable experience so far as far as interactions goes. The trails themselves were some of the best yet. -
Here is where I will be a little more direct. You are just as responsible for this experience as we are. To be honest I am a bit dismayed at your response in whole and I am wondering if this was the last trip for me with the Washington Wet Wheelers. I really like everyone in the club and the night before the trip was the most fun I have had group camping, but if the trips we undertake will only end in hurt feelings.. then it really seems self-defeating.
Mistakes and misunderstandings happen, but dealing and learning from those is what makes the difference in how the group will cohere in the future. I think the following will be needed for the future in order for this to continue and grow.
- Clear start for departure with a quick pre-run meeting to cover vehicle order and outline the plan. As well we should designate a spotter and who will be filming the group so we can be sure there in place to get footage as much as possible. Video is not just a cool reminder of the trip but serves as a recruiting aid.
- Learn and follow trail etiquette, such as:
1. Do your best to keep the person behind you in site and always stay in communication range.
2. When there is a turn or fork, wait for the person behind you (just in case we do get separated some) before moving on.
3. When you go through an obstacle please wait for others to get through before moving forward (unless the group agrees to have those in front advance).
4. Though the group should pace itself for the slowest member of the group as much as possible, please be sure you are doing your best to keep up with the persons in front of you (within reason of course).
5. Most importantly... HAVE FUN! We all have moments of frustration, the thing to keep in mind those is that those around you are there to help you. There is no judgement if you have problems or breakage.. its all part of the experience so just know that we all have your back!
OH and one other thing... we probably should not discuss trail choices when we all have had a fair amount of alcohol lol. I feel some of the grumbling about the trail difficulty the night before the run was likely more to do with inebriation than anything else lol.
But, your comment brings up a couple things and since stated here I will respond here in kind.
- I think some people who went on the trip didn't know what they were getting into. Things go wrong when you wheel. -
Things do indeed go wrong when you wheel, its part of the sport. With that said, trips should be tailored towards the capabilities of the group (considering how small a group we are currently). All in all the group is eager, but with some of them being new to the sport spending time getting them familiar with using their vehicles and taking direction (spotting, etc) will build a good foundation for future runs.
I know there was some frustration on the trails, but I think a bit of planning and communication (will outline more in detail below) will help to alleviate that some.
- Having people get pissed off because I lead us down a wrong trail is unacceptable. -
I don't think anyone was necessarily pissed. The only part I questioned was the offshoot where we had to reverse and that was strictly because the very first drop after the root should have been an indicator the trail was going to be too rough. My concern was that you were much further down the trail before the call to back up was made.
That said we all made it out ok, and in reflection I actually enjoyed that part oddly enough. All in all it was a learning experience, and should be considered as such without letting emotion concerning it get the best of everyone.
- It was my first time same as it was all of yours. -
And that is fine, which I why I felt a run like Tahuya would be a good run to hit. It has a mix of stuff which will allow us to work out the kinks and bond, as well as build confidence for the newer wheelers.
- Having nothing but a 14 year old map means we are going to go down the wrong way from time to time. -
Totally understandable, and I don't think anyone faults you for that (I know I don't).
- It was my least enjoyable experience so far as far as interactions goes. The trails themselves were some of the best yet. -
Here is where I will be a little more direct. You are just as responsible for this experience as we are. To be honest I am a bit dismayed at your response in whole and I am wondering if this was the last trip for me with the Washington Wet Wheelers. I really like everyone in the club and the night before the trip was the most fun I have had group camping, but if the trips we undertake will only end in hurt feelings.. then it really seems self-defeating.
Mistakes and misunderstandings happen, but dealing and learning from those is what makes the difference in how the group will cohere in the future. I think the following will be needed for the future in order for this to continue and grow.
- Clear start for departure with a quick pre-run meeting to cover vehicle order and outline the plan. As well we should designate a spotter and who will be filming the group so we can be sure there in place to get footage as much as possible. Video is not just a cool reminder of the trip but serves as a recruiting aid.
- Learn and follow trail etiquette, such as:
1. Do your best to keep the person behind you in site and always stay in communication range.
2. When there is a turn or fork, wait for the person behind you (just in case we do get separated some) before moving on.
3. When you go through an obstacle please wait for others to get through before moving forward (unless the group agrees to have those in front advance).
4. Though the group should pace itself for the slowest member of the group as much as possible, please be sure you are doing your best to keep up with the persons in front of you (within reason of course).
5. Most importantly... HAVE FUN! We all have moments of frustration, the thing to keep in mind those is that those around you are there to help you. There is no judgement if you have problems or breakage.. its all part of the experience so just know that we all have your back!
OH and one other thing... we probably should not discuss trail choices when we all have had a fair amount of alcohol lol. I feel some of the grumbling about the trail difficulty the night before the run was likely more to do with inebriation than anything else lol.
That is far too much reading for me to do while at work however I will respond to what I skimmed over. My response to your question about what I thought of the trip was not a direct response to you. You were not there for every interaction that I had with the other people in the group so please do not presume to know what I am referring to. The people who acted that way know who they are.
I did cater this trip to you guys and the fact that you all were running less capable rigs. In fact I had a conversation Friday night with Ben in which he tried to tell me that I was wrong in saying that the 520 was too rough for you guys and that he "isnt going to just take my word on it". Then we ended up holding up another group of wheelers as well as having to turn around after we went up it.
The fact is that this isn't our first trip out as a club. It is however the first trip with a few of you. None of these issues have arose in the previous trips and yet this one they have. I'm well aware of trail etiquette and I chose to go ahead of you guys because of the fact that I didn't want you guys to get stuck or go down something that you were uncomfortable with (which you all were very adamant about). In order to do that I had to play recon. You all had radios in your trucks and I made sure to relay directions at every fork in the trail. I also enlisted the services of a non club member with a winch to come rescue you two when you were stuck. Instead of thanks for doing all of this I get a bad attitude from one of you and a novel on how I should run my club from another. I think that we as a club have done very well and I agree that there are things that need to be worked on however I believe some of you lack the proper demeanor that we are looking for in this club.
06-24-2014 | 09:42 AM
#326
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Granted I was not there for all your interactions, which is why my response only included my perception of what I had noticed.
My response was not directed solely at you but I see based on your comment "a novel on how I should run my club from another" that you are obviously beyond reason on this topic.
With that I formally withdraw my interest in your club.
As for the others, please feel free to PM me or catch me on FB as I would be happy to wheel with you anytime.
My response was not directed solely at you but I see based on your comment "a novel on how I should run my club from another" that you are obviously beyond reason on this topic.
With that I formally withdraw my interest in your club.
As for the others, please feel free to PM me or catch me on FB as I would be happy to wheel with you anytime.
06-24-2014 | 09:51 AM
#327
Granted I was not there for all your interactions, which is why my response only included my perception of what I had noticed.
My response was not directed solely at you but I see based on your comment "a novel on how I should run my club from another" that you are obviously beyond reason on this topic.
With that I formally withdraw my interest in your club.
As for the others, please feel free to PM me or catch me on FB as I would be happy to wheel with you anytime.
My response was not directed solely at you but I see based on your comment "a novel on how I should run my club from another" that you are obviously beyond reason on this topic.
With that I formally withdraw my interest in your club.
As for the others, please feel free to PM me or catch me on FB as I would be happy to wheel with you anytime.
06-24-2014 | 11:18 AM
#329
Registered User
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Marysville WA
All in all I had a great time camping and wheeling with everyone. Yes there were some mistakes, but there was never anything that I was actually mad about. I think that maybe someone may have taken my directness the wrong way, no offense was meant at any point. In the future I would recommend patience.. But I also will not be a participant in the future.. Mainly due to the way that simple conversations were handled.
Good luck
Good luck
06-24-2014 | 11:39 AM
#330
All in all I had a great time camping and wheeling with everyone. Yes there were some mistakes, but there was never anything that I was actually mad about. I think that maybe someone may have taken my directness the wrong way, no offense was meant at any point. In the future I would recommend patience.. But I also will not be a participant in the future.. Mainly due to the way that simple conversations were handled.
Good luck
Good luck
06-25-2014 | 07:50 AM
#331
Planning a trip for the 12th of July to Walker or Little Naches. Anybody have a preference? I know the camping at Little Naches is supposedly amazing with a great view right there on the shore of a river. I'm going to look into whether or not it is booked or not. Anybody have big 4th of July plans?
06-25-2014 | 03:21 PM
#332
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Well...that escalated quickly. Look, I had a great time camping and wheeling with everyone, but if this is the way constructive criticism is going to be handled in the club I don't want to be affiliated with it. Every trip is a learning experience and everyone should come back from each trip with some tidbit to make the next one better. I just want to go wheeling once in a while with other people that share in the enjoyment of our hobby. I agree 100% about the trail etiquette, it's kind of a safety thing and there's no shortage of damage that can potentially be done out there. We weren't doing anything super crazy, (except I'm pretty sure I shat myself coming down that huge rock, lol) but accidents CAN happen and if someone goes tumbling down a cliff and no one sees it it could be much worse than if someone had. Just my .02
Anyways, I want to say I'm really surprised I had such a good time camping with everybody, a bunch of people I hardly know that I basically met on a forum. I guess thanks to YT for keeping the d-bags elsewhere (cough, cough pirate cough), I don't know if I'd even want to wheel with some of those guys, the flame wars would set the forest on fire, lol. I'm still down to wheel with anyone here any time, as long as I'm free that weekend of course, I just do this to have fun. That said, unfortunately I won't be able to make the 12th as I have a backpacking trip planned that weekend, but my vote would be for Naches if I could make it.
Anyways, I want to say I'm really surprised I had such a good time camping with everybody, a bunch of people I hardly know that I basically met on a forum. I guess thanks to YT for keeping the d-bags elsewhere (cough, cough pirate cough), I don't know if I'd even want to wheel with some of those guys, the flame wars would set the forest on fire, lol. I'm still down to wheel with anyone here any time, as long as I'm free that weekend of course, I just do this to have fun. That said, unfortunately I won't be able to make the 12th as I have a backpacking trip planned that weekend, but my vote would be for Naches if I could make it.
06-25-2014 | 07:19 PM
#333
I could have made my case with a little more manners and I apologize for that. I did however feel like I was being attacked when I was simply stating how I felt about how someone treated me after I went above and beyond to cater a trip to them. I think it is hard for me to get across how much work and passion I have put into this club. Of which I welcomed you all in with open arms. I have always been a very passionate person and I unfortunately let it get the best of me. I understand that mike has all the best intentions and I wasn't even upset at him. I just let my emotions get the best of me. I apologize for that. I would simply ask that you guys try and see things from my point of view. This is my baby and it is growing up at an alarming rate. I'm not trying to be a dictator and I am very open to constructive criticism and I do want everyone to have a say in this club. I however ask for some respect for the efforts I make. I think that discussions like this need to be had in person or on the phone going forward. It is very hard to establish tone and meaning via text. I'd be happy to speak with anyone on the phone. If you don't have my number PM me.
07-01-2014 | 11:28 AM
#334
Little Naches trip has been pushed to the 26th instead now. I just checked and there are currently 9 camping sites available. They go for 14 bucks. If you are wanting to go let me know so I can reserve enough spots for us.
07-02-2014 | 03:53 AM
#337
Welcome! As B-Fake said Walker Valley is your closest ORV. We as a club go there quite often. You are welcome to come along on the next trip if you are itching to stretch that new truck's legs. Whats the story on your truck? All stock? Have you big plans for it?
07-02-2014 | 07:24 AM
#338
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Well, I originally hail from lake havasu, az. As you could guess off roading is a bit different down south. I'd like to see how it's done up in this neck of the woods. Still a bit of work to be done on the truck though. It's got some gnar tires on it though that would be a shame to not let them taste some mud every once and awhile.
07-02-2014 | 07:39 AM
#339
Well, I originally hail from lake havasu, az. As you could guess off roading is a bit different down south. I'd like to see how it's done up in this neck of the woods. Still a bit of work to be done on the truck though. It's got some gnar tires on it though that would be a shame to not let them taste some mud every once and awhile.
