Spacers or new shocks and coils?
03-30-2005, 05:35 PM
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Spacers or new shocks and coils?
So I've been doing quite a bit of research but I know I still have gaps to fill in the info that I have obtained so help me out..
I'm on that quest to find a suspension that works (i dont really care that much about ride comfort because im a teenager) off-road while giving the ride height. Or let me rephrase - I want a lift that will give me a taller ride height AND inrease upward and downward wheel travel. I don't know if anyone's found a solution for the 3rd Gen 4Runner coil IFS (I wish I could do a solid axle swap but thats out of the question).
So alot of people are going with the Sway A Ways in front and OME or Downey coils and bilstein or OME shocks in the rear to get about 2" of suspension lift. 2" sounds good to me but I'm going to need to run atleast another 1-2" of body (somehow get someone to help me fab the extra parts needed to fit a taco body lift to fit a 4runner) lift to run the tires that I've already got (305/70/16 BFG MTs).
So my question is, what is the real difference besides in the ride quality when you compare SAW/Steve Schaefer's Tundra coil and OME shocks front and OME shocks and coils rear to a more inexpensive 3" spacer lift? (I guess you get about 2.5" of lift and settles to around 2.25")
Either way your taking away the precious down travel that's key to rock crawling and pothole driving because in both cases your re-positioning the lower control arm downwards closer to the lower bumpstops to give that increased ride height. (either with a longer/stiffer spring or with a spacer)
Unless I'm wrong about stiffer springs and they actually don't re-locate your lower control arm positioning from stock and give a taller height because of the stiffness of the spring not the fact that its longer and pushing the lower control arm down.. which I hope I am.
I'm on that quest to find a suspension that works (i dont really care that much about ride comfort because im a teenager) off-road while giving the ride height. Or let me rephrase - I want a lift that will give me a taller ride height AND inrease upward and downward wheel travel. I don't know if anyone's found a solution for the 3rd Gen 4Runner coil IFS (I wish I could do a solid axle swap but thats out of the question).
So alot of people are going with the Sway A Ways in front and OME or Downey coils and bilstein or OME shocks in the rear to get about 2" of suspension lift. 2" sounds good to me but I'm going to need to run atleast another 1-2" of body (somehow get someone to help me fab the extra parts needed to fit a taco body lift to fit a 4runner) lift to run the tires that I've already got (305/70/16 BFG MTs).
So my question is, what is the real difference besides in the ride quality when you compare SAW/Steve Schaefer's Tundra coil and OME shocks front and OME shocks and coils rear to a more inexpensive 3" spacer lift? (I guess you get about 2.5" of lift and settles to around 2.25")
Either way your taking away the precious down travel that's key to rock crawling and pothole driving because in both cases your re-positioning the lower control arm downwards closer to the lower bumpstops to give that increased ride height. (either with a longer/stiffer spring or with a spacer)
Unless I'm wrong about stiffer springs and they actually don't re-locate your lower control arm positioning from stock and give a taller height because of the stiffness of the spring not the fact that its longer and pushing the lower control arm down.. which I hope I am.
03-30-2005, 11:04 PM
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so can anyone tell me what the real advantage is to switching out your suspension parts rather than getting a 3" coil spacer lift?
03-31-2005, 04:44 AM
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You'll get better performance switching out parts as opposed to the spacers. If you're just going for looks, spacers are fine. If you want better off-road performace go with the tundra lift of new coil over. It may locate the down travel arm lower, but I believe you'll get more travel overall.
03-31-2005, 05:12 AM
#4
where are you located?
what are you going to do offroad?
if you're running fast in the desert, then get SAW's.
if you're going to do any crawling, then get front TRD Tundras.
if you're going for looks and maybe play in the mud, then spacers will be "OK".
if you want more travel from IFS, then you have to get longer A-Arms or go to a SAS...
the best overall street ride and offroad performance in a variety of situations is from the TRD Tundra coils w/ a top spacer and OME N91S(firm) struts up front. in the back, it's a toss-up between the Downey 2.5/3.5 coils with OME N86(firm) shocks and the OME N91 coils with OME N86(firm) shocks. the OME rear coils are considerably cheaper in the beginning than the Downey's, but over time they will sag and you will need a 1" spacer. a quality 1" rear spacer set will run you $100 or more on the used market, and therefore end up costing the same as the Downey coils that don't sag.
what are you going to do offroad?
if you're running fast in the desert, then get SAW's.
if you're going to do any crawling, then get front TRD Tundras.
if you're going for looks and maybe play in the mud, then spacers will be "OK".
if you want more travel from IFS, then you have to get longer A-Arms or go to a SAS...
the best overall street ride and offroad performance in a variety of situations is from the TRD Tundra coils w/ a top spacer and OME N91S(firm) struts up front. in the back, it's a toss-up between the Downey 2.5/3.5 coils with OME N86(firm) shocks and the OME N91 coils with OME N86(firm) shocks. the OME rear coils are considerably cheaper in the beginning than the Downey's, but over time they will sag and you will need a 1" spacer. a quality 1" rear spacer set will run you $100 or more on the used market, and therefore end up costing the same as the Downey coils that don't sag.
Last edited by bamachem; 03-31-2005 at 06:08 AM.
03-31-2005, 06:00 AM
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From your description sounds like you might want to consider going the SAS route. Plenty of good information to read on Schaeffer's site:
http://fastq.com/~sschaefer/4runner.html
http://fastq.com/~sschaefer/4runner.html
03-31-2005, 07:51 PM
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Im only 16, i dont have anywhere near the funds to do a SAS. To get a dana 44 properly re-built, geared and locked up, that will already topple the cost of getting the tundra coils and what not for front and back. Ive made 2 lists according to Steve Schaefer's recommendations page with the prices. Heres my list so far with a few people I need to contact:
Steve doesn't mention longer brake lines in his list (this list is copied off his website) but I think im going to have to indulge and get some longer, braided lines just to be on the safe side depending on how tight they get after the lift.
So how exactly does replacing suspension components give you better off-road performance? how can it flex better and give more downward travel when basically your still pinning the lower control arms down with a stiffer and longer coil which puts you closer to the bumpstop ?
FRONT:
TRD 4WD COILS:
48131-AF090 right - Blue+Yellow goes on the passenger side
48131-AF100 left - Yellow+Yellow goes on driver sid
340.00 for pair from Oxnard Toyota parts
ARB/Old Man Emu HD N91S firm front shocks** (low pressure)
214.00 pair from rocky-road.com
Revtek Top out spacer, Part # TOE-2 (you need 2)
Revtek extended studs, Part # STD-6 (you need 6)
OR WHEELERS INC, 49.99 for the spacers and the studs. <-- thats what I'm going to go with. The 50 dollar package includes the 10mm studs and the 3/8" spacer from Wheelers, inc. I contacted Revtek and they said the spacers that Wheelers inc sell in their 50 dollar package are actually revtek spacers but Wheelers inc make their own studs and their studs are cheaper but work fine.
Front differential drop spacers
60.00 from Sonoran Steel LLC.
Front Sway Bar Disconnects extended for 2.0" of lift
ASK <--- I still need to look around for this item.. I see few people running NUKE disconnects and they really like em. Ill probably get some of these but I havent gotten around to getting a price yet
Front Limiting straps & Adjustable Clevis:
Weld on bracket: 50.00 from Sonoran steel
Strap info (copied from Sonoran Steel's website):
Kartek: ( 2 ea. ) 10" black Pyrotec limiting straps & ( 2 ea. ) Adjustable limiting strap clevis PRM-CLV123
Toyota: ( 2 ea. ) 90119-14069 & 90179-14068 ( 2 ea. )
ACE Hardware: ( 10 ea. ) Grade 5, 1/2" washers that are 1/8" thick. Five washers on each side.
I still need to get ahold of Kartek and get prices on those items. I called toyota and the parts numbers there are bolts for lower control arms and something else that I don't remember.
REAR:
ARB/Old Man Emu HD 891 rear coils
138.00 per Pair from rocky-road.com
ARB/Old Man Emu HD N86 firm rear shocks *** (low pressure)
152.00 per pair from rocky-road.com
Trac/PanHard drop bracket
75.00 from Sonoran Steel
18" Rear limiting straps
Haven't checked
E-Brake bracket
Have to find one
1996-2002 Front Sway Bar end links
Have to find
Daystar competition bumpstops with Bolt on adapters
Have to contact daystar.. dont really know why these are needed but ill take steve's word for it.
1800- 595 – 7659 DAYSTAR
737-7223 (951) Kartek Direct (they wont answer their phone)
TRD 4WD COILS:
48131-AF090 right - Blue+Yellow goes on the passenger side
48131-AF100 left - Yellow+Yellow goes on driver sid
340.00 for pair from Oxnard Toyota parts
ARB/Old Man Emu HD N91S firm front shocks** (low pressure)
214.00 pair from rocky-road.com
Revtek Top out spacer, Part # TOE-2 (you need 2)
Revtek extended studs, Part # STD-6 (you need 6)
OR WHEELERS INC, 49.99 for the spacers and the studs. <-- thats what I'm going to go with. The 50 dollar package includes the 10mm studs and the 3/8" spacer from Wheelers, inc. I contacted Revtek and they said the spacers that Wheelers inc sell in their 50 dollar package are actually revtek spacers but Wheelers inc make their own studs and their studs are cheaper but work fine.
Front differential drop spacers
60.00 from Sonoran Steel LLC.
Front Sway Bar Disconnects extended for 2.0" of lift
ASK <--- I still need to look around for this item.. I see few people running NUKE disconnects and they really like em. Ill probably get some of these but I havent gotten around to getting a price yet
Front Limiting straps & Adjustable Clevis:
Weld on bracket: 50.00 from Sonoran steel
Strap info (copied from Sonoran Steel's website):
Kartek: ( 2 ea. ) 10" black Pyrotec limiting straps & ( 2 ea. ) Adjustable limiting strap clevis PRM-CLV123
Toyota: ( 2 ea. ) 90119-14069 & 90179-14068 ( 2 ea. )
ACE Hardware: ( 10 ea. ) Grade 5, 1/2" washers that are 1/8" thick. Five washers on each side.
I still need to get ahold of Kartek and get prices on those items. I called toyota and the parts numbers there are bolts for lower control arms and something else that I don't remember.
REAR:
ARB/Old Man Emu HD 891 rear coils
138.00 per Pair from rocky-road.com
ARB/Old Man Emu HD N86 firm rear shocks *** (low pressure)
152.00 per pair from rocky-road.com
Trac/PanHard drop bracket
75.00 from Sonoran Steel
18" Rear limiting straps
Haven't checked
E-Brake bracket
Have to find one
1996-2002 Front Sway Bar end links
Have to find
Daystar competition bumpstops with Bolt on adapters
Have to contact daystar.. dont really know why these are needed but ill take steve's word for it.
1800- 595 – 7659 DAYSTAR
737-7223 (951) Kartek Direct (they wont answer their phone)
So how exactly does replacing suspension components give you better off-road performance? how can it flex better and give more downward travel when basically your still pinning the lower control arms down with a stiffer and longer coil which puts you closer to the bumpstop ?
03-31-2005, 07:52 PM
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oh yeah im located in southern california.. crawling and mudding/snow driving (deep and icy) are what I like most. I dont go fast hehe, im a wuss =^)
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04-01-2005, 10:41 AM
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So how exactly does replacing suspension components give you better off-road performance? how can it flex better and give more downward travel when basically your still pinning the lower control arms down with a stiffer and longer coil which puts you closer to the bumpstop ?
When people say replacing suspension parts with OME and Downey or Tundra parts increases off-road performance, is that an increase over stock performance or increase over what a spacer lift would give but worse than stock?
When people say replacing suspension parts with OME and Downey or Tundra parts increases off-road performance, is that an increase over stock performance or increase over what a spacer lift would give but worse than stock?
04-02-2005, 03:25 AM
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Mabe this will help. https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/if-you-plan-installing-downy-1-5-coils-2nd-gen-read-42784/ You will get more travel if you replace your spings and shocks. You will also have 4" of compresion before you hit the bumpstops rather than 2". Makes those parkeing lot speed bumps (and trail logs) a lot more fun to mob over.
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