4RUNR

I'm saying they are already dead.

Prove me wrong: bring home a new ever-so-popular 4Runner with a manual.

mike_d

i sure hope you're right. but i'm worried. autos are getting so good, that there just may be no good reason to keep manuals. i test drove a higher-end mercedes (just for fun) with one of their smart automatics. after about 20 minutes or so the transmission learned my shifting patters (if the tranny wasn't in the gear you wanted, you could correct it). after the 20 minutes or so, the tranny was able to shift better than me. it took input from steering, brakes, incline, and a bunch of stuff and was always in the right gear. it was kinda scary.

plus as someone mentioned above, autos are much cheaper to build, so the car companies are gonna keep pushing them. the guts of an auto tranny are just some (low tolerance) machined channels to pump the hydraulic fluid simple clutch packs and stuff. a manual has syncros and all kinds of stuff that needs to me machined to high tolerances. to make autos work better all you need is cheap electronics. programmers are cheap and the marginal costs are very close to $0. unfortunately i see the end of manuals, which makes me very sad. but if that's the case, i may never own a new car again, i'll just keep buying used manuals.

cvlighthouse

I think it has to do with the downhill assist. A computer controlled engine braking vehicle will not let you take over the stick and shift into a wrong gear or drop the clutch in a sketchy situation. In other words, cars are smart, people are stupid. The automatic transmission assisted by computer will get the average driver to the bottom of the hill better than a stick. Try switching the auto tranny into neutral and bomb down a steep muddy hill. Once you hit the brakes your sliding out of control.

X-AWDriver

I can live with an auto in a truck but a sports car is a different story.

cvlighthouse

I hear ya. The Porsche 911 turbo is a whole 1 sec slower with the triptronic shifting.

kyle_22r

i will never own an automatic in a truck, ever, period.

Ontos

I'll second that!!! Long live the U-Shift-Em's!!!! If they stop building manual's, I'll have to start buying older, and older trucks!

DealMaker

Where I live the problem isn't the soccer mom's, it the 20 yr. olds racing their tuners on public roads, weaving in & out of traffic and running the reds. At least the soccer moms pull over if they cause an accident.

bobzemuda

Only in America. Most people in Europe drive manuals from what I saw when I was over there.

4RUNR

I can guarantee you that it is due to the fact that manual trims of a vehicles are almost certainly cheaper, and more fuel efficient. It is not due to the air, or different chemicals in the food that make "Europeans" prefer manuals.

ianshoots

You can't push start an auto tranny after you've left the lights on. Not, of course a problem in newer vehicles, since the lights are one more thing that you can't control for yourself. I hope no-one ever even thinks of putting an auto on a motorcycle (they probably already have).

roger

I know you can't get a new Runner with a manual, but there are plenty of other rigs where it is still an option, including Tacos and *gasp* Jeeps. All I'm saying is there are still options for those who want a stick shift. they just can't get a 4Runner!

kyle_22r

you can get one, just not in this country.

we're screwed up, we can't even get a barebones setup any more. any other place besides the US or canada and i could have a diesel with a 5 speed

mike_d

even better, i bet you could get a brand new copy of your '79 in central america. i'd love to get a brand new 1st gen 4runner, i'm sure they still make them somewhere. wonder what the customs would be like to bring it back here.

kyle_22r

don't think my model of truck has been produced anywhere since the early 80s...unless china bought some of the dies like they did with 3rd gen trucks/2nd gen 4runners(there was a big thread on that a while back, the chinese company wanted to sell in the US).

i do know that a variant of the land cruiser FJ40 was produced in brazil until the late 90s though...

mikedog

I'll have to disagree. An automatic transmission has very close tolerances. Remember, all it takes is a few metal or dirt particles in the wrong area to clog up one of the delicate servos or passageways inside the tranny and you got yourself some serious $$$ tranny problems.

Manual transmissions are alot more forgiving in that aspect. The original 4sp manual in my truck never had the oil changed in it ever. It lasted for over 350K miles before 1st and 3rd gear started slipping. Then, 1st and 3rd went completely out.lol! Try getting that out of an automatic. In fact, I wonder if the average automatic would even last over 350K miles?

Unfortunately, the fact remains that most 4Runner buyers today order an automatic and not the manual tranny. The 4Runner is definitely not what it used to be. The newer ones are practically the epitome of what an SUV is nowadays. Soccer moms, yuppies and businessmen all order these things by the droves. Most of that market demographic want an automatic. The original 4Runner was much different in concept and appeal. The 1st gen was basically just a hilux PU with a removable top on it.

I totally agree about manual trannies though. I couldn't imagine driving my PU with an automatic. Yuck! It would feel so boring and somewhat "disconnected" from the road when driving it.

jx94148

Bring home an ever so popular Subaru STi with an automatic if you can. Clearly their still is a very strong market for vehicles that can really be driven, not just steered.

I'll never buy an automatic because I enjoy driving and I believe that my eyesight is better than my truck's. I can see the terrain ahead and can select the gear to use accordingly. My truck will never try to outsmart me or guess what I want it to do.

Most people only drive because they have to so they buy autos. Those of us that drive as a hobby prefer manuals. Its a question of being in command of a vehicle or the vehicle being in command of you. Manual owners drive. Auto owners just steer.

Toyota is totally going down every wrong path they can find lately and its pissing me off.

4RUNR

The only problem is I don't want, or even exactly know what an STi is.

But if I did want a 4Runner in a manual, no matter how strong that urge was, I would not be able to buy it with a manual. The availability of a Ford250 with a stick shift, or a 4Runner with a manual but sold to a New Zealand market would not help much.

As far as 4Runner buyers are concerned, the manual is dead.

It is a far fetched logic to concede that manuals are dead only after the last model of an economy trim Ford Escort in an Australian market is discontinued. If you can’t get the car you want in a manual, the manual is dead.

X-AWDriver

www.subaru.com Pull down models choose Impreza then click WRX STi sedan.

An STi is one bad Subaru Impreza,300hp,AWD with fr/rr bias control and a 6 speed. Ran head to head with a '03 Mustang Cobra in the 1/4 and wiped it's ass with it on a road course in a comparo test done by Hot Rod magazine.

The Mitsubishi EVO is it's direct competition and the combo of AWD+turbo becomes one fun platform to drive in inclement weather.

*sigh* Man,now you made me miss my '93 Eclipse.

Flamedx4

The electronic controls have their limits. And to do any serious off roading with them they need to be the most-sophisicated kind. Here's examples: STEEP downhill, muddy or snow covered. With an auto (select 4LO if you even have it and manually select 1st gear) you still pick up speed - no compression braking. So you have to put your foot on the brake. Now, because the torque converter uncouples the drivetrain from the engine, you can stop the wheels from turning easily (with a manual you would have to brake hard enough to kill the engine to stop the wheels from turning) - and away you go sliding down the hill. Ah, I have ABS you say. Well, now that presents a different problem. Now you go merrily down the hill picking up speed as you go with the pedal clunking away, ABS not letting you have enough control and you still can't stop. Now, imagine this very steep downhill trail on the side of a mountain. How fast can you toboggan around down the hill around curves and keep it on the road? I've been there - it's terrifying. If you're system has hill decent, you get much much improved results, assuming every thing is perfect - no dirt, mud or water on your brakes, speed within the parameters of the system etc. And there are precious few vehicles available with that level of sohpistication.

The answer is obvious - those of us who want off road vehicles with 5 speeds should buy off road vehicles with 5speeds - leave the techno whiz jobs to the soccor moms and the people who have to get every option and will never even know what real offroad trails look like. Problem is, our choices are getting more and more limited every year as the car companies eliminate manuals in anything but the most stripped down models. No 5pseed 4Runners, no 5speed DoubleCabs. You can still get v6 speed Xtracabs and standard cabs at least, but I want a real back seat. Guess I need to look at... what? No 5 speed Explorers, no 5sp Durangos, or Monteros or Grand Cherokees or Isuzu Rodeos, you want a sport utility you're stuck with a Liberty, Wrangler, or Suzuki or any of those wannabe SUVs that are based on cars like the Escape, the Rav4, CRV, Hyundais and Kias, etc... Just Great.

I have nothing against autos, I just prefer 5 speeds. It really irks me that in order to have one I have to limit my choice of vehicles to rigs I don't really want. End of rant.