WATRD,
just a question about your post: you say frames are pretty thin and easy to burn through and that bolting risks crushing the frame.
What do you see as the downside to welding sliders onto the frame (besides not being able to take them off)? Tearing or shearing forces?

 

Aside from too much heat during the welding process, as long as the loads experienced by the sliders are distributed over an adequate area, there's not much of a downside. I prefer to use the sliders with the square plates on the ends of the legs because it gives me more surface area to weld and they are pre-gussetted. But as long as you are careful with the welding and have enough surface area attached, you should have no problems.

 

What about problems related to the heat build up localized to only one small area of the frame?

Wouldn't this add about the same amount of weakness inherent in bolt holes?

I've read for quite some time and still can't figure on what I want.


Reasoning 1...

Reason 2...

...from here.

 

That is very much a problem with heat hardened frames like a semi has, but not with frames like Toyota and most car builders use. Frames that are hardened are usually stamped "Do not heat or drill", you can see the stamp and the stickers on exposed frame portions of semi tractor rigs.

A frame is not necesarilly a frame...

I have been welding on Toyota frames since I got my first one new in 1988. I have never heard of, seen or experienced a heat related failure in that time. Lot's of stress fractures and some pretty crappy welds failing, but never a failure from where the frame was heated and the metal crystalized.

Somebody probably heard that about some frame in particular and now it's being passed around as gospel about frames in general.

 

Good to know.

What about body lifts?

These obviously provide more room to add the slider/nerf bar, but are they necessary?

Just curious as to opinions.

 

In my opinion and I always tick off the body lift fans when I say this, in general, body lifts are a bad idea. They can be useful when an inch or so is required to make the next tire size, but when you install them in lieu of suspension lift, they are bad idea, especially the larger ones.

Do you need one? Absolutely not. That is unless you need to fit that next tire size or you just like to be able to see your frame when you look at your truck from the side. In regards to mounting nerfs or sliders, you absolutely don't need a body lift. They are designed to fit non-body lifted rigs. In fact, you have to have special offset mounts made if you DO have a body lift, otherwise there is a huge gap between the body and the sliders/nerfs.

 

BEST POST EVER!!!

 

Crawl under your rig and look at all the parts, mount and brackets that are WELDED to the frame. That alone should tell you all you need to know. Things that are bolted on are done so for the convenience of being removed to service and/or replace. It's just as easy to cut off a welded on pair of sliders that have scab plates to distribute the load and grind it down smooth as it is to take the time to drill a bunch of holes and bolt them on/off. I work in a fab shop and if we have a choice when making a connecting joint between bolted and welded, aside from just convenience, for strength welding wins every time.

This all assumes you have an excellent welder, but on your rig I would hope you'd have nothing else.

WELD THEM ON!

 

That's a damn good point

 

Even though when those points are welded on the frame is bare (i.e. no thin metal for heat to escape to) and the quantity of welds means an overall increase in frame temp?

While I appreciate the idea that no metal fatigue is incurred, I don't find it convincing.

I'm coming at this with both welding and glass blowing knowledge, where the differences in temperature between two small points can be extreme. The stresses incurred are quite amazing, especially in the latter.

Backing up, I'm not a fan of body lifts and would rather not get one. I was curious as to why it seems so many people seem to need them.

Meh, one day.

 

ilion,
I tend to think welding sliders on is fine, just from all the people that have done it without any problem. I guess that is circumstantial evidence but I figure guys like DeMello and Stubbs, etc who do this for a living know what's up, as well as the knowledgable in this forum.

I have to admit I am uncomfortable with welding myself though. Sliders are my next mod and I'm working to get the bolt-ons of a rather unique design. Hopefully it works out.

bodylift- Calrockx has a minor lift and it looks great. It keeps the body away from rocks right?

 

And makes room for bigger tires.

The massive consensus is that weld-ons are fine, so I'm sure I'll eventually go with that.

Nevertheless, it's still rather nerve racking to think about a 10,000 degree arc only inches from my overly important Toyota.

Plus, my cousin's X-terra has holes all over it's damn frame. He has the step bars/fake nerf bars and despite these there are still holes all over each rail.

I like the idea of a wrap around with something like two bolt holes, but this means that there will be a point lower than the actual frame rail under the slider.

:sigh:

Oh well.

 

Nor does it mean that the Honda is rear wheel drive and acctually needs the spoiler in the first place...

 

My friend who works at a body shop and off roads regularly has seen frames bend with welded sliders when contacting rocks really hard and recommended when I get mine to have them bolted on;he says it's easier to fix a little body damage if the slider fails than straightening out a frame but to each his own.
I'm gonna bolt mine on.

 

No vehicle FWD or RWD needs a spoiler unless you're htting speeds over 130mph;my friend's Type R over that 130 mark was much more stable than another friend's same year R without one. Spoilers when properly designed do their job but most are just for looks.
I've also seen tests between the top Evo vs the cheaper RS EVO model which deletes some comfort features and the CF spoiler and the car was very different over 120mph w/o the spoiler.

 

Thanks, dammit!



All I need is info like that to help settle my mind.


FirstToy, those things are pretty gnarly looking. I've never seen nerfs with a built in transfer case guard. At least, I'm assuming that that's what that is.

 

I have been welding on Toyota frames, rocker panel protection in particular, for 15 years. I have yet to see any such thing.

Perhaps it's that "Jeep Thing" we keep hearing about?

 

I know, I know, I work REALLY slowly. But you should see those welds

 

I am familiar with scabbing irregular plates onto material to stiffen it, but the only time I have seen it done on a vehicle is on competition rigs that still have a frame. I am not convinced it's worth the effort or weight gain for most of us. But, if you want to use an irregular backing plate for the legs of sliders, I can't see any reason to caution you not to

 

Kinda like this? It spreads out the stress loading over a greater area, thus reducing the stress incurred by the frame.