turbo location?
turbo location?
11-30-2002, 12:35 AM
#4
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Re: turbo location?
Originally posted by Patrick D
If you were to run a single turbo in a 3.4 where do you think the best place for it to go would be? A friend is curious.
If you were to run a single turbo in a 3.4 where do you think the best place for it to go would be? A friend is curious.
Mike
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12-03-2002, 07:20 PM
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twins??
Did someone mention Twin Turbo? Think this will squeeze in the engine compartment?
Just drove this on Sunday. 750HP Twin Turbo Viper GTS.
Mike- If I close my eyes, I can almost imagine having enough $$ to buy it.
Just drove this on Sunday. 750HP Twin Turbo Viper GTS.
Mike- If I close my eyes, I can almost imagine having enough $$ to buy it.
12-03-2002, 09:42 PM
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Turbo should go near the exhaust ports of the engine and placed such that the heat of the turbine would have minimal affect on engine ambient temperature or intake charge temperature.
Keep the exhaust headers to the turbine housing narrow (to increase exhaust gas velocity) and isolated as possible (to prevent hot spots). Try maintain similar lengths on each runner.
Intake manifold should be optimized for air intake velocity and fuel atomization. Keep the intercooler piping bends to a minimum.
The picture above has a nice throttle body and intake plenum.
Twins could be another option by using smaller turbos.
One on each side would have it's own exhaust manifold and intake manifold.
You could also make a trick manifold to keep both turbos on all exhaust ports.
Will you use air-to-water or air-to-air? Horizontal or vertical mount? There is a lot of room in the engine bay for trick ideas.
Which EMS will you use? Fuel system?
I'd like to take out my supercharger and put a nice T78 turbo in it.
J
Keep the exhaust headers to the turbine housing narrow (to increase exhaust gas velocity) and isolated as possible (to prevent hot spots). Try maintain similar lengths on each runner.
Intake manifold should be optimized for air intake velocity and fuel atomization. Keep the intercooler piping bends to a minimum.
The picture above has a nice throttle body and intake plenum.
Twins could be another option by using smaller turbos.
One on each side would have it's own exhaust manifold and intake manifold.
You could also make a trick manifold to keep both turbos on all exhaust ports.
Will you use air-to-water or air-to-air? Horizontal or vertical mount? There is a lot of room in the engine bay for trick ideas.
Which EMS will you use? Fuel system?
I'd like to take out my supercharger and put a nice T78 turbo in it.
J
12-03-2002, 09:53 PM
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Yes, therefore, if you wanted to run a dual setup, it could be done as you saw above, however, things would need to be moved around...For a single turbo, it would sit where the airbox is and utilize cross over pipes for either side of the motor 
Mike
Mike
12-04-2002, 12:37 PM
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You all might want to do a Net search for a company called Safari. I think they are based in Australia. They make a real nice Turbo kit for the 4.7 that is complete with the Uni-Chip, extra injector, and intercooler.
I worked with a guy that was the first in the US to install one. It was imported and installed by a company called Rod Millian in CA. The guys Land Cruiser was a feature vehicle in Today's SUV around the same time as my red 4Runner was.
On that setup, the turbo was on the passenger side of the engine with the cross over pipe from the driver's side going around the back of the engine like the stock pipe on the 3.4. The intercooler was front mounted in front of the A/C condensor in about the same place I installed my tranny cooler.
Mechanically the kit was bullet proof. They were having some serious issues getting the Uni-Chip squared away. The issues were resolved and that guy has one fast running Land Cruiser.
Overall a single turbo for the 3.4 could be done the same way. Hell, Safari might even have one on the market now for it. Check it out....
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
I worked with a guy that was the first in the US to install one. It was imported and installed by a company called Rod Millian in CA. The guys Land Cruiser was a feature vehicle in Today's SUV around the same time as my red 4Runner was.
On that setup, the turbo was on the passenger side of the engine with the cross over pipe from the driver's side going around the back of the engine like the stock pipe on the 3.4. The intercooler was front mounted in front of the A/C condensor in about the same place I installed my tranny cooler.
Mechanically the kit was bullet proof. They were having some serious issues getting the Uni-Chip squared away. The issues were resolved and that guy has one fast running Land Cruiser.
Overall a single turbo for the 3.4 could be done the same way. Hell, Safari might even have one on the market now for it. Check it out....
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
12-04-2002, 12:49 PM
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I would've put the turbo in the same location (passenger side near the exhaust manifold.
I don't like placement of the turbo in the airbox location since it doesn't seem optimal for thermal dispersion. Turbines can get blazing hot (glowing red) real quick, especially when you run high boost or tune it poorly (typically rich).
I wouldn't mind doing my own tuning with an EMS like AEM since it has a lot of cool software programmability features for automatics. However, it would take a lot of time to get it right and I'm not sure how the gearbox talks to the ECU.
As much as I hate piggybacks, I would rather use a piggyback like Apexi and an aftermarket fuel system than a chip.
One injector? Must be a small turbo kit. I bet placement of the injector is upstream from the intake plenum and atomization isn't guaranteed to be the best.
J
I don't like placement of the turbo in the airbox location since it doesn't seem optimal for thermal dispersion. Turbines can get blazing hot (glowing red) real quick, especially when you run high boost or tune it poorly (typically rich).
I wouldn't mind doing my own tuning with an EMS like AEM since it has a lot of cool software programmability features for automatics. However, it would take a lot of time to get it right and I'm not sure how the gearbox talks to the ECU.
As much as I hate piggybacks, I would rather use a piggyback like Apexi and an aftermarket fuel system than a chip.
One injector? Must be a small turbo kit. I bet placement of the injector is upstream from the intake plenum and atomization isn't guaranteed to be the best.
J
12-04-2002, 07:41 PM
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I'm not sure how much difference this makes, but I hear that 2 small turbos are better than 1 larger turbo. Less turbo lag.
Would be soooo sweet!
I wouln't mind doing a supercharged 3.4 in my 2nd gen. 
(I just figured out what that smilie is. I used to think it was a smilie coming out of a trash can--never made any sense to me, but now it does. 
) 
Well, have fun.
DH6twinotter
Would be soooo sweet!
I wouln't mind doing a supercharged 3.4 in my 2nd gen. (I just figured out what that smilie is. I used to think it was a smilie coming out of a trash can--never made any sense to me, but now it does. ) Well, have fun.
DH6twinotter
12-05-2002, 05:38 AM
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2 small turbos are not necessarily better than 1 big turbo.
Sorry, I need to debunk the myth that two are better than one (unless you're talking about cute twin sisters). It's like the Fast and Furious movie where the guy wants two N20 bottles. Like two would make his ghetto green car any faster. It just increases the capacity to blow up his car.
If you use sequential, you may stage the turbos, but controlling the sequence and machining the manifolds would be a nightmare.
How much power do you want? I you want to add lots of cfms, you're going to get some lag, whether it be with twins or single.
Your lag is largely dependent on turbine wheel and housing sizes (mainly Area to Radius ratio or A/R). The smaller the A/R, the quicker your boost will spool and the less lag associated with spool. However, you'll sacrifice the large top end or overall cfm capacity with a smaller turbine.
Compressor side is mainly about efficiency. Once you exceed a certain load and cfm, your turbo no longer makes power, but heat.
Compressor maps can be seen on www.turbonetics.com to give you an idea. You'll see the x-axis with pressure ratio which is given in atmosphere (or bar). A pressure ratio of 2 gives 1 bar of boost (or 14.7psi). Pressure ratio is given in absolute so you usually subtract 1 atm to get boost.
The y-axis is the overall air flow through the compressor wheel.
J
Sorry, I need to debunk the myth that two are better than one (unless you're talking about cute twin sisters). It's like the Fast and Furious movie where the guy wants two N20 bottles. Like two would make his ghetto green car any faster. It just increases the capacity to blow up his car.
If you use sequential, you may stage the turbos, but controlling the sequence and machining the manifolds would be a nightmare.
How much power do you want? I you want to add lots of cfms, you're going to get some lag, whether it be with twins or single.
Your lag is largely dependent on turbine wheel and housing sizes (mainly Area to Radius ratio or A/R). The smaller the A/R, the quicker your boost will spool and the less lag associated with spool. However, you'll sacrifice the large top end or overall cfm capacity with a smaller turbine.
Compressor side is mainly about efficiency. Once you exceed a certain load and cfm, your turbo no longer makes power, but heat.
Compressor maps can be seen on www.turbonetics.com to give you an idea. You'll see the x-axis with pressure ratio which is given in atmosphere (or bar). A pressure ratio of 2 gives 1 bar of boost (or 14.7psi). Pressure ratio is given in absolute so you usually subtract 1 atm to get boost.
The y-axis is the overall air flow through the compressor wheel.
J
12-05-2002, 06:05 AM
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I think this is a company www.airpowersystems.com.au that Gaget was talking about
