toy_tek

Just for clarification, I believe the larger 4Runner brakes aren't determined by trim level (SR5,LTD) but by wheel size. My SR5 came with 16" wheels and the larger brakes.

FUZION

I think it was 2003 that they had to increase the caliper size. But yea 2002's from a Tundra or Sequoia bolt right on.

coot

I acutally am planning on doing this to my tacoma this weekend with the tundra brakes. Do I have to have anything else besides the new calipers, rotors and pads? For some reason I think Im missing something...

Coot

pattycakes77

iTrader: (2)

<edit> i'm a dumbass! so, the first time i attempted to do the brakes i got stuck at how to remove the grease cap to get to said nut, turns out none of that stuff needed to be done. just a few kicks and the rust broke free and released my rotor. ah! so, i'm halfway to tundra brakes, thanks for the moral support everyone
patrick
<edit>

anyone happen to know the size of the bolt that holds the rotor on? i've started tearing down to do the brakes and all my sockets are too small, i've gone to the hardware store to get something bigger and even with measuring i've bought 3 of the wrong size sockets. i can say one thing, it's bigger than 30mm since that is the last size i got. any help would be appreciated.


patrick

toy_tek

You're talking about the 35mm axle nut. That does not need to be removed to do the brakes. All you need to remove is the 6 lug nuts, and the two caliper bolts. Once the caliper is out of the way, the rotor will just slide off the lug studs. Well, depending on how much salt you see in the winter, it might need some BFH encouragement.

moneypit99

so i just read 5 pages, and maybe i missed it b/c there was so much debt between the 199mm and the 231mm and which would fit what; but what year should i be looking for with each?? simple and too the point please...thanks in advance!!

mark

UNR.Grad

'00 to '02 have the 199mm calipers. But some of those years have had the TSB done to them and have the 231mm calipers. Good luck.

hopper

The 231mm needs 17" rims and the 199mm needs 16" rims.
The 231mm will be better stopping. And the which year question was answered above.

I have done the 199mm and if I had the money I would have gone with 231mm. So if you have the money I would get new rims and do the 231mm. Thats my $0.02

Midget96

How does a bigger caliper body decrease stopping distance? Enlighten me. Because the rotor diameter, piston size and master cylinder (all items that *might* have an impact on decreasing stopping distance) stay EXACTLY THE SAME AS A 16" WHEELED 4RUNNER.

People are so caught up in this Tundra braking trend. The only thing Tundra brakes are good for is frequent towing (almost requisite) and mountainous terrain. The thicker rotor and slightly larger pad can indeed take more heat before fading than the 4Runner parts, but thats it. You will not decrease stopping distance and will not increase braking torque with the Tundra setup.

I had 12.25" rotors and 4pot calipers with ultra aggressive pads on my Integra that I road raced and I barely shaved 7 feet off my 60-0 distance, even with sticky tires. And that was quite an upgrade over 10" stock rotors with sliding calipers.

I guarantee that you'd see better results from a rebuilt 4Runner caliper, a fluid change and high quality brake pads than you would from a Tundra brake setup with the worthless "loaded pads" that typically come with the calipers.

Tightening your lugs correctly and bedding pads properly goes a long way to eliminating "warping".

If you're going from barely-functioning stock parts to brand new Tundra parts (which everybody is), then I guess you would get the illusion of drastically improved brake performance...

crbocaj125

I could torque my lugs just right, bed the pads properly, and have good fluid, and the trailer was still too much for it. I went through 2 sets of rotors before I went for the tundra brakes. I tow every weekend, and the 4runner brakes couln't cut it. $250 was all it cost me to get good OEM rotors and calipers, how can you beat that?

Also, my stopping distance decreased greatly; because I could press the pedal all the way down, while before I couldn't press it half way before the dash shook onto the floor.

The real reason for doing it though, is how trendy it was, I get to sit at the "cool" lunchtable now.

MTL_4runner

This is just rediculous........

Someone who did the Tundra upgrade please give Midget a ride so he stops arguing with himself.
The hole is deep enough already, I think you can stop digging now.

hopper

I did it not because "its cool to do" but because my like new rotors were warped to hell and I didn't feel like changing them every 6 months. They solve the warping issue, is that not enough reason to change them. It wasn't that expensive to do.

"The thicker rotor and slightly larger pad can indeed take more heat before fading than the 4Runner parts, but that's it." This web site is offroad based which in most cases mean bigger tires, added weight of steel bumpers, and more rolling resistance which adds a huge stress and heat to your brake system. If there is a way to decrease the likely hood of fade and warping why is it such a bad thing to do? Not everyone has a vehicle they can use on the trail, drive it home and use their daily driver during the week. Like many my off road vehicle is also my daily driver.

The 231mm is a bigger caliber and rotor, I don't have first hand experience with the 231mm brakes but the people who I have talked to that have changed stock brakes to 231 have seen a increase of braking power.

Midget96

So according to you, what I wrote about towing is completely true. I don't see the point you were trying to make here at all. I explicitly wrote that towing required the Tundra brakes.

As for your second comment, you're proving exactly what I originally posted; people compare brand new brakes to defunct stock brakes and see a big improvement. Wow, who saw that coming...

First of all, if you're "warping" brand new rotors every 6 months, then you're doing something wrong. I have 174K on the 12 year old rotors that came on my truck. No pulsation whatsoever, though I am running high quality, fairly aggressive pads (Hawk LTS). I torque my lugs properly and bed pads correctly. Zero issues with the brakes.

Also, I live in Arizona, I have 255/85/16 tires, which are bigger diameter than the typical 285's and weigh about the same (53 lbs vs. 56 lbs). I have a TJM T15. When I go camping (usually in the mountains to the north or towards Mexico), I have well over a 150 lbs. of gear, plus several other passengers in the truck. The ambient air temp from May to Sept. is 100?+ during most of these trips. I've yet to glaze my rotors (one of the problems you would refer to as "warped"), let alone fade my brakes significantly with Hawks and ATE fluid. I got some moderate fade coming down from Big Bear to San Bernardino, but thats it. Good pads go A LONNNGGGG way to better braking performance.

Also, I daily drive with this truck, usually in heavy traffic in hot temps. Bottom line; you cannot get a brake system under the stock wheels that will markedly decrease stopping distance. You can only increase heat capacity with a thicker rotor, and increase torque with a more aggressive pad.

Even with your 8" wide calipers, how much supposed increase in performance have you actually seen? Is it measurable at all? Are you doing a pineapples-to-used-tampons comparison like everyone else does?

My problem with the Tundra "upgrade" is that most people that do it pull these claims of better performance right out of their ass. I can't reiterate enough; when you go from Flintstones foot brakes to brand new Tundra brakes, of course there will be a difference, but you CANNOT COMPARE IT TO STOCK BRAKES.

hopper

Your right everyone that doesn't tow should just get rid of their Tundra brakes and go back to stock.

People can form their own opinion, if you read this tread and think it may be an upgrade you want to do please do so and if you think it's for people who just want to be cool then run whatever you want on your truck.

MadCityRich

Well, I guess we should all get permission from the 4Runner priesthood before making any mods.

I did my Tundra brake upgrade and have been pleased. Could I have stayed with stock and been OK? Maybe. But given that I don't really have a brake maintenance fetishon, I'd rather have a system that avoids problems.

Although the rotor diameter is the same, the rotor has significantly more mass than a stock rotor (20 lbs for new tundra rotor, 10 lbs for used rotor). My braking with the 199mm calipers is probably right where a set of new stock rotors and pads would be. But that added mass matters to heat dissipation. And if I avoid having to replace another set of rotors in the next 100k miles, the time saved is well worth the cost.

Who gives a crap why someone does a mod or not? Unless they are a danger to themselves or others, if they are happy, so what? I've had endless discussions with people on whether larger brakes improve stopping distances. All else held equal they cannot (traction becomes the limiting factor). But all else is not held equal in life. My '86 BMW 535i has much larger brakes than stock at all four corners. Can I stop faster? You bet. But that's because I've got better tires and suspension than a stock 535i. Larger brakes can also provide a better modulation ability at the extremes of braking. A vehicle that will be carrying more than stock weight can benefit from larger brakes simply by having more controlled ability to stop. So long as you don't lock the brakes up, larger brakes can improve the driver safety of a heavier than stock vehicle. The added weight can also help prevent lock-up, so larger brakes may actually be able to stop a vehicle faster on a heavier than stock vehicle.



Tundra brakes are A-OK with me.

MadCityRich
'02 4Runner Ltd

crbocaj125

[QUOTE=Midget96;50570753]So according to you, what I wrote about towing is completely true. I don't see the point you were trying to make here at all. I explicitly wrote that towing required the Tundra brakes.

As for your second comment, you're proving exactly what I originally posted; people compare brand new brakes to defunct stock brakes and see a big improvement. Wow, who saw that coming...


QUOTE]




The first comment was meant to show you how you contradicted yourself by calling it a "fad" followed by giving a logical reason to do the mod.

I guess the answer to your "who saw that coming" question would be: we all saw that coming. I didn't put larger brakes on to see what the outcome would be, I put them on because I knew what the outcome would be. What is the difference between you buying high dollar pads and taking the time to change over to high dollar fluid, and me buying bigger brakes, and sticking with OEM products?

Midget96

I've given up on you. Complete retard...

If you're having problems with stock brakes, then you are indeed doing something wrong. Either crappy pads, improper installation/bedding or uneven torque on the wheel. Maybe finding the root of your problem would have been worth the $300+ savings. Or maybe you just like to throw away money.

I have no clue where you're going with the BMW tangent. You're preaching to the choir about the benefits of bigger brakes; I road raced for 2 years and never had an issue once I went with Wilwood calipers and two piece rotors.

But the Tundra brakes ARE NOT LARGER than the 4Runner; they're just slightly thicker. You don't gain any mechanical advantage with the Tundra brakes, and I doubt anyone is going to be doing 10/10ths laps around the Streets of Willow in a 4Runner, which is the only application (towing aside) where the Tundra brakes would have an advantage over the 4Runner in terms of fade resistance.

The Tundra brakes would certainly stop the 4Runner better than the stock brakes if you were doing back to back 60-0 type tests, but that's not a real world situation. The Tundras wouldn't stop a 4Runner any shorter until the 5-6th stop, either.

Modulation is a moot point because, again, you're not modifying any components that would have an impact on brake torque. You're also not going to be locking up the wheels on [most] 4Runners given the fact that they have ABS.

What was the outcome? Getting to blow $200+ on new calipers and rotors that won't lessen your 60-0 distance? Getting parts that are better at hiding the effects of improper wheel torque and pad bedding?

The difference between the Tundra brakes and what I've done to my stock brakes is simple; my materials cost less than $100 (including a rebuild kit for the calipers) and yours cost well over $300. And you know what? The performance of both of our brakes systems is identical in 95% of situations we'll encounter in daily driving.

My issue lies in the fact that people add Tundra brakes for delusional benefits that simply don't come to fruition. You won't stop any faster in normal driving situations with the Tundra brakes, simple as that. And unless you're towing something or road racing in your 4Runner, then you'll never see the benefits of the thicker rotor. Hawk LTS pads, some decent fluid and a simple caliper overhaul coupled will net you the same results at a 1/3 of the price.

Quote this all you want and refute until your balls fall off. I'm done trying to bring reasonable facts to the table for this fairy tale modification...

crbocaj125

[QUOTE=Midget96;50571727].

But the Tundra brakes ARE NOT LARGER than the 4Runner; QUOTE]




There is your reasonable fact d-bag.

KZN185W

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't the Tundra/Sequoia caliper have bigger pistons aside from having wider pads? bigger pistons translate to bigger force on the rotor which then translate to bigger stopping force.

crbocaj125

Well, I thought that was better, but according to midget, those are just "dilusional benefits"