Honestly, I don't think you really need it for safety as long as you run decent gas. I had a buddy recently sell his 4Runner with 115K miles on the clock and supercharged from the dealer since day 1. He never did any fuel mods, timing mods, nothing. Just drove it like it came.

I've had mind supercharged for going on 5 years and about 22,000 miles. Mine's still going strong to boot.

I did adjust my timing map a couple weeks back to give it a bit more timing, in other words I'm not pulling as much in the map and it feels a lot more peppy.

The meth would be nice to zero out that timing map though, I'm sure it'd add at least 30-40 RWHP, but it's a 4Runner and to me it's fine as it is.

I'm still researching it for the Challenger. I think I've decided on the Coolingmist kit, but last weekend the Challenger ran 11.56 at 125.01MPH in the 1/4. That was with a dismal 1.96 60'.

My money may be better spent on some slicks and skinnies for the car rather than a meth kit. Seems I'm not able to use all the power I have now in that car.

 

Not a bad time, a set of slicks would cut a few more tenths off for sure. Have you ever driven on slicks before?

If you are wanting to improve just the drag times then slicks will net you some nice gains.

If you would like to improve performance across the board then meth injection will give you gains across the board.

 

The 125 MPH trap speed is good for at least a 10.80 ET if I can get traction.

My buddy has a similar setup with slicks and skinnies, but he's down about 100HP to mine. He runs the same times I do, but with a 116MPH trap speed.

The difference is he cuts 1.5 - 1.6 60's to my 1.8 - 2.0s. I'm on M&H drag radials.

 

Yep, sounds reasonable. 10.80 would be impressive for a heavy car like yours but I can easily see you breaking into the 10's with slicks.

Also remember that with a better 60ft your traps will also come down some as a rule.

 

Yep, wouldn't surprise me if the MPH drops a tad. Mine's a stick car...there are autos running 10.70s with 118MPH trap speeds.

 

It is much harder to be consistent with a manual. I could barely break 13s with a 116 mph trap speed. A manual trans + a turbocharged engine + skinny stock street tires makes for a very challenging combination.

 

Supercharger got put on all of 3 weeks ago, URD kit was 2 weeks ago. Wideband 2 days ago..

To be honest, seemed a bit more peppy before the fuel mods, maybe because it was new to me. I kept it under 3500 rpm before I put the URD kit on because I am paranoid.

Before the SC, with my tires/gears/armor etc.. it was a fight to get the truck to do 65mph on anything other than a flat road. Now it happily cruises at 70mph.

Texas_Ace, thanks for the input on the nozzle, I will get the right one on order tomorrow. Do you have any suggestions for a good pump that is also somewhat quiet?

Another thing to note, first page of the URD directions says the AIC can control a second injector for water meth. Emailed Gadget about it but have yet to get a response.

https://i.imgur.com/TJaDr.png

Guessing its a typo since one map does timing and the other does the injector. Just thought it was strange that he had it in the instructions.

 

It can control a meth injector, but since you have the 7th that takes the place of that. That option was for folks who went with 6 new injectors and had to retune the whole car's fuel table.

 

I guess this is free advertising for URD, but mine pings like crazy below 3,000 RPMs, especially with a trailer behind me. I know the performance isn't what it should be, I can feel it pulling timing like crazy when the knock sensors finally come online and notice the pinging. Mine needs the URD goodies.

 

Yep, mine did the same thing. With the URD setup it's awesome. Mine pulls hard all the way to the speed limiter of like 110 or whatever. The faster it goes the harder it pulls.

 

That's good to hear. They aren't giving away the URD stuff.

 

Yeah, it's worth it though. Mine has ZERO ping at any RPM now, but had it big time at 2500 before.

 

Best idea is to just buy a kit from someone unless you are going real cheap. If you plan on using it all the time, spend the little extra and get a kit.

 

I know it's different for every truck, but what is the range of timing that you're pulling below 3,000 RPMs? (I think 5-7 deg is common.)

I'm assuming that any TIMING changes I make above 3000 RPMs will eventually be overridden by the ECU?

 

Would any of you guys with the 7th kit be willing to post a screen shot of your timing/fuel map? I just want to have something to compare as I make changes to mine. I have some pinging in the 2500 rpm range that I just noticed.

Or is there a thread with this info already that I missed somewhere?

 

You can find some around, think speedy has some on his website. Be warned though, the maps are not a 1 size fits all.

I tried speedys map when tuning my truck and it was no where close to what I needed. I have to triple the amount of fuel and could run more timing. I did have headers though so that would explain at least some of it.

 

Hey TA need some meth help.

My buddy just put a kit on his Challenger. It's around 700RWHP. He used that AEM kit and a single 550cc / min nozzle.

He just sent me a data log and it didn't do anything to the IATs at all. He need a bigger nozzle or add another one or ?

He ran boost juice in it.

 

First off I feel bad for him, that AEM kit is the worst meth kit I have used to date by a large margin, the controller just can't make up it's mind about what it wants to do or when it wants to do it in my experience.

That said, what about his AFR's? Did they change at all? Is he sure the meth is spraying? Any change in Knock readings?

Is it possible for him to get pure methanol and mix his own? Like I stated before the boost juice is a scam, it will work though, just hate to see people spending that kind of money on that stuff.

Now lets get down to what he needs and why he is not seeing lower IAT's. He needs more fluid injecting that is for sure but we will get to that in a minute.

How is his car setup, turbo? Supercharger? Does he have an intercooler? Where is the nozzle placed in the system.

What are the engine specs? Size, redline RPM and boost, you already said the HP level above.

After I know all of that I can make a better guess as to what is going on. My guess now from the little I know is he is supercharged and the nozzle is pre-SC with an intercooler post SC. If this is his setup it could confirm a hypothesis I have had for some time about this setup.

Other factors aside the nozzle is too small and he would not see a drastic change in temps anyways. I would want to see at minimum 1000cc (~15gph) of fluid being pumped in, most likely a fair amount more being ideal depending on the setup, every car is different. The AEM nozzle ratings are a bit off so don't take them at face value as well.

If it were mine I would start off with a 14gph devils own nozzle installed as the "base" nozzle and then use the AEM nozzles as a secondary nozzle to play with total flow rates. Start with the smallest and move up/down to see how it reacts. Every car is different.

Being able to play with the meth/water mix is also very helpful when dialing in a new setup like this as well.

 

Car is a 6.4L Hemi at 9.8:1 compression with a Magnuson 2.3L supercharger. Boost is about 12psi, redline is 7100. The nozzle is 6" from the throttle body and the Magnuson DOES have an intercooler under it in it's tub. The IAT sensor is located in the tub directly above the number 2 cyl.

His AFR changed, but just barely...maybe .1 or .2.

 

Wow, looks like my guess was pretty close. This also might confirm some things I have wanted to test for some time as well.

Ok, so in simple terms the meth is injected into the air stream, in this case pre-SC. By injecting it pre-SC he is improving the superchargers efficiency by improving the seal between the rotors and case. This should improve performance at least some alone.

Obviously the air temps goes up after being compressed, the meth will act to cool these temps down, how much is directly proportionate to how much you inject. It can actually be calculated how much temp drop you will get with so much fluid being injected but takes knowing a fair amount of data to get it right.

Here is where my hypothesis comes in. The air then enters the intercooler. All intercoolers have a "dynamic efficiency curve" (forgot technical term) that is based on outside air temps in this case. The greater the difference between the outside air temps and the heated air charge from the SC the more efficient the intercooler will work. It is also exponential. The lower this difference the less efficient ect.

As an example lets say that outside temps are 50f and the air charge is 200f. The intercooler may drop the temps down to 100f. A 100 degree drop in air temps.

But on the other hand if outside temps were 100f and the air charge was 150f it may only drop the temps down to 125, a 25 degree drop. These numbers are made up but they give the basic idea.

So by injecting the meth before the intercooler (being before the SC/Turbo has no real effect on this part) you are lowering the temperature differential between the outside air and the air charge and thus lowering the efficiency of the intercooler. This is turn means the the intercooler will not drop the air temps as much as it otherwise would and your final air temps would not be as low as they could be if the meth was injected post IC after it had removed as much heat as possible first.

This is all based on sound math/fact but I have never seen some actual results from this either to back it up.

In a nut shell the air temps will not drop much/at all when injecting the meth pre-IC was my hypothesis. It is also possible that the air temps could go up over the intercooler alone in certain circumstances (mainly injecting post-turbo but pre-IC) due to the water/meth leaving a film on the intercooler and further lowering it's effectiveness as well as cooling the outside air in some cases. These are some things I plan to test out at some point.

So with that out of the way, I would not call anything just yet on his car, he needs a lot more fluid for sure. Then see what happens.

With the new specs it looks like ~20gph of flow is a good place to start. Which if you got a 14gph nozzle and then used the AEM nozzle as the adjustable part of the equation you should have enough wiggle room to get pretty close and at least see what it likes.

I assume he has at the least the ability to datalog? I also assume he has a wideband and knock sensor? I would log those along with the IAT readings and do some pulls with the meth off/on and see what it says. Even with that small amount you should see at least some change in AFR's and/or knock readings if not IAT's.

This will make sure it is flowing properly before you start trying other stuff. Is there any difference in power with it on/off?