I'll keep you posted on what I end up doing. Not sure on time frame gotta few things to test out first, but this is definitely on the radar. I just wanna keep the wiring and all that as simple as possible. I already have enough stuff wired up with the LC-1 wide band, gauges, data logger and all that LOL.

Do they have some cross reference for nozzle sizes?

 

Here is a nozzle size calculator, not perfect by any means but it will get you close.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...lator-351.html

Wiring wise you will have more or less the same amount of wires no matter what setup you go with, just where they will run that will change.

 

Cool thanks I'll keep you posted.

 

I would like to see Speedy install water/meth injection on his 4Runner. Every install he has done has been super clean and well documented.

I installed a new TRD SC on my 5-speed 4Runner a couple of months ago and I will be installing the URD 7th kit soon. I am really interested in water/meth injection for high elevation towing, mainly to keep inlet temps down. I know TA is a big advocate of water/meth instead of the 7th, but my truck absolutely needs the ability to retard timing below 3000 RPMs and I don't want to rely on a full water/meth tank as my tune, particularly when towing. Water/meth would be a wonderful addition to Speedy's current setup though.

 

There is nothing wrong with the 7th, I have never said anything against it. The meth injection just allows those like me to save the money. The meth will MORE then take care of any knock issues below 3000rpm.

It can still be used with the 7th injector no problem and you can grow from there.

 

^^ My intent was not to put words in your mouth, afterall, your water/meth injection video proved to me just how effective it is. My concern is towing a heavy trailer on a 3,000 mile trip and constantly having to stop for methanol.

With the supercharger and manual trans, the truck has more than enough power to lug along at low RPMs, (in stark contrast to the turbo cars I have(d) owned that make nothing for power down low), but it pings pretty bad with the trailer, 1-2 psi of boost and low RPMs. I think I would go through a ton of methanol if I had a controller set to spray at such low levels.

BTW, last weekend I cut down a 35' weeping willow tree...not sure how much the loaded tandem axle galvanized trailer weighed, but even with too much tongue weight, it still left rubber on the highway when I had to merge at surface street speeds from a stop.



I would like to buy a camp trailer for extended trips across the U.S. and I think the 7th injector kit + methanol/water injection kit will make for a nice setup.

 

In your case the 7th injector makes more sense for sure. I would use washer fluid if you go with meth injection since you can find that anywhere it is great for long trips.

Washer fluid will not have the power potential of a water/meth mix by any means or of pure methanol but it will work. For those that stay closer to home, mixing the meth yourself or running pure methanol is the best option.

How much you will use depends on the nozzle size. I was using 1-2 gallons per tank of gas when I was running a 14gph nozzle and driving hard. Now that I am NA again and running a ~2gph nozzle I am hardly using any methanol at all and it is running a lot more then before (anytime it is above ~2500rpm in my case since it doesn't cost much and hardly uses anything).

 

Just a point of note...pure methanol is highly flamable. Mixed with water not so much.

 

I would not call it highly flammable when compared to most things. It's flash point is very high ~850 degrees vs ~450 for gas. It is also very stable.

It will burn naturally but you will be treating the install like a fuel system anyways so nothing to really worry about. I have had pure methanol pour directly onto a manifold with no ill effects (forgot to reconnect nozzle after working on the car). It is VERY stable.

 

I'm running the 7gph nozzle and -20 washer fluid. It is getting tougher to find since the -20 is more seasonal. But I have been throwing in an extra bottle of the yellow bottle iso heet and you can notice a difference in the pants. So I can for sure say that more meth more power. I've noticed i'm only getting 50 to 60 miles on 3 quarts "Meth"

 

Well, the big thing I see with pure methanol is that if it does light off it burns invisible from what I'm reading. Not good there, but I"m an engineer and always think of things in worst case scenario. Call me paranoid haha.

You go through 3 qts of meth in 50-60 miles? Yeesh!

I'm gonna look in to making my own for my Challenger setup. Seems you mix it by weight and not volume though, so it's not a 50/50 mix by fluid, but by how much each fluid weighs?

 

Depending on how you have it setup that is about right, little much unless you are ragging on the truck like me. With a nozzle that size I would want at least a 50/50 mix.

Try to find some methanol around you, you can get it for around $3 a gallon which will work out far cheaper then Heet.

It does have a blue flame that is hard to see when it does light that is true but also not a big deal in car terms in the real world. Got to remember that in a meth injection system even if you had a leak and it lit off, as soon as you let off the gas it stops flowing and thus removes the fuel.

So it is highly unlikely that even if it lit off any real damage would be done. In all the years I have been working with meth injection I have yet to see a car burn due to running pure methanol, I am sure it has happened but I have not seen it or heard of it.

I have heard of some minor flame up's that the owners only found out about due to some melted hoses but those are very rare, maybe 3 of them I have ever heard about. Of those all that I remember were due to improper install.

So in the real world, there is nothing wrong with running pure methanol. It is just as safe as your fuel system. The more methanol the better.

How much methanol you use depends on a lot of factors, how you drive and have it setup is chief of which. Take my truck for example.

When I was driving I would use ~1-2 gallons per tank of gas. When I let my dad drive it for awhile on the other hand he used a whole tank of gas and was still on the methanol that I put in there when I gave it to him.

How you have the system setup also plays a large role, if you have it start spraying earlier to get the power boost you will use more naturally. Or you can delay it and save the methanol at the cost of power.

When you get down to it though, ~$3 a gallon is not bad at all even if you use a gallon or 2 per tank of gas.

Correct, you will mix it by weight if you want to get all perfect on us. It is kinda funny to mix 1 part water to 1 part methanol and not get 2. You get like 1.9 lol.

In the real world though, I just figured out roughly where the percentage I wanted was and marked the container and fill to the line. it works plenty good enough for what we are doing.

No reason to overthink it. Just mix each batch the same way and the car will be plenty happy, there is nothing that says it has to be EXACTLY X % methanol. You will want to play with the mix when tuning anyways, each car likes a different mix. Once you figure out the mix your car likes then just keep mixing it like that using a marked container and you will be golden.

 

Good idea on the marked container. Can you get Methanol at Home Depot or ?

 

At that rate I would have to tow a methanol trailer behind my camp trailer. Under normal driving I usually don't hear the supercharger having to work, but with a trailer in tow it is in boost much more often. I'm thinking for my needs perhaps I will just run straight water injection at 3-4 psi + of boost. I don't necessarily need more power but I think the engine would like the cooling effects on our long high elevation California passes. The higher trigger point would help reduce the amount of water I go through on a long trip.

 

They don't sell methanol at home depot but you can get denatured alcohol which is ethanol mixed with a little methanol so it can not be drank. It costs a lot more and doesn't work as well but still a lot cheaper then the boost juice.

Methanol can usually be found in most major city's. Check race tracks/ Race shops first. Circle tracks, drag tracks ect all run methanol cars at some point. If you strike out there then go for the chemical supply company's, the places that supply jiffy lube type shops. They can usually get methanol but they sometimes will only sell it by the drum (which is still not a bad deal if you have a place to store it).

 

You can use a smaller nozzle as well, I was using the biggest nozzle I could find. Use a nozzle half the size and you would use half the fluid ect.

A higher turn on point would also work well to extend range. Pure water injection works fine as well just not near as much power gains, great for safety though. I would use washer fluid and if you run out you can always fill it with water in a pinch.

 

^^ I think that's the plan. I remember back in the day my dad had a 4WD Ford truck with an old-school high compression built-390 and water injection--he simply had it on a switch and would turn it on when we were towing the trailer on long grades. He always commented on how happy he was with water injection. I was only ~8 years old but can still remember him commenting on it.

 

I think I am in the exact same boat as paddlenbike. I want the added safety mainly but the cooling and cleaning effects are just an added bonus.

I just started road tuning the URD 7th kit using a screen recorder on my laptop. My plan is to run a small nozzle and a 3psi pressure switch. I really like the added saftey factor of the water injection. I ordered the smallest nozzle off of devils owns site (.75GPH) but now I am thinking I should at least start with a 2GPH.

 

You are supercharged? Yeah that nozzle is way too small. That is too small for NA, I am running 2x.75 nozzles right now NA and plan to move up to at least 2gph & .75.

For a supercharged truck I would run at least a 5gph nozzle if able to mix your own methanol. Personally I was running a 14gph nozzle on pure methanol and really needed a little more when supercharged.

 

Just curious, did you run your truck without fuel mods for a while? If so, I'm curious to know how different the driving experience is now with it in place.