LOL, nice vid, needs differnt music or even better none at all, i want to hear the motor in videos like that not music and so do 90% of other youtubers.

We had my first REAL snow day EVER about a month ago, funny only seen real snow 2 or 3 times before in my life and in those cases it was only half an inch and lasted maybe 3 hours. Then we got hit with a littal blizzard, complete whiteout. There was a stuck car/crash on every street but my truck just kept on going.

found a parking lot and should have flimed it, i was bouncing it off the rev limiter in 4wd in 3rd gear! lol said i was going 110mph when i was actually going ~15mph

Had some fun.

 

Hey Speedy, have you noticed running leaner in cold weather? I started running leaner all the sudden, wondering if its weather related.

 

Very possible, usually cars compensate for it but on a modded truck like your it could be a problem.

With no air temp trims in place you will run leaner in cold weather, and make more power and boost should be slightly higher.

 

Yes. I actually spent a couple of days touching up my tune as well to correct for it. What I noticed in my data logging is that the engine gets more timing in cooler air which seems to make it run a tad more lean.

I've since got mine pretty well dialed in. I don't really run it hard very often...but if I really give it the beans in 2nd gear I can still see a 12.0 or 12.2 AFR right at redline. However, I never installed the Walbro 190...I'm still using the stock fuel pump. Since it was so close to being spot on I never saw the need to replace the pump, and honestly I didn't like the idea of having spliced wires in my gas tank.

In tuning, one thing I noticed is that what is a tad lean in 2nd gear is rich in 3rd. I wonder if the RPMs just build so fast in 1st and 2nd that the piggy back can't keep up? At any rate I ended up setting on around 11.8 - 12.0 at the top of 2nd which results in about 11.4 - 11.7 in 3rd at WOT and near red line before the speed limiter cuts in. Remember, my 4Runner is an auto tranny, so YMMV.

Also, the first run may be lean...then the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th runs just about dead on....then runs after that start to get very rich (10.9 - 11.0 AFRs). Looking at my data logging, after the engine heat soaked with all the WOT runs, timing started to be pulled resulting in a more rich condition.

Seems I'm making 11psi in the cold on the 2.2" URD Pulley. I only make 10.5psi in the warm weather which is still more than I thought it'd be. I thought the 2.2" was supposed to be a 9psi pulley. I've confirmed the 10.5 warm air and 11 cold air psi readings on both my boost gauge as well as the R4 tuning software.

 

The reason for more timing in cold weather is due to cooler air being less knock prone thus the ECU can run more timing safly without getting any knock. This is why we need intercoolers on turbo cars, if you just run the hot air it will cause you to knock.

The timing is not what is causing the leaner condition, it is the cooler air being more dense and thus combined with the extra boost you are getting a lot more air into the engine. Timing only changes AFR's a fraction and that is with big changes. Like in my MR2 i am tuning now, i can change the timing 5 degrees and see less then 0.1 afr change. virtually unnoticeable.

Reguargdless, glad to see it is still running good!

 

Ok, thanks guys

 

x2 on the no music, just natural sounds, or combo of cut music in out to natural motor sounds!! thx for posting up the vid!

 

Then what's causing me to go quite rich after 4 or 5 consecutive runs? The only deviation in the setup is the change in timing as noted by my BR-3.

If it's not the timing, then I don't know what it is, but it is repeatable unless the stock injectors go in to some kind of fuel dump mode for cat over temp protection?

 

How rich after a few runs? Air temps will skyrocket after a few hard pulls with a supercharger due to heat soak (i saw this first hand with my truck on the dyno, each pull i lost ~5rwhp until i let it rest and cool down where it went back to normal).

If it is only a few points rich then i am sure it is just the air temp, you don't really want to retune for a 1 off cold day like that, tune it in the weather it will see the most and then tune it a little on the safe side of that.

It going a tad lean in the colder weather (like you were saying, low 12:1 AFR's) is accetpable due to the cooler weather being less prone to knock (which is why you are running more timing) and the cooler air lowers EGT's which means you won't melt anything.

Does timing change after a few pulls? That is also an indication of air temps getting real high.

As i said, in my MR2 i am tuning now, i can change timing by 5 degrees and get a virtually un-noticable change in AFR's. Some cars are more noticable then others but still if timing is only changing a few degrees it will not change afr's more then a or so point tops. Air temp on the other hand can play a major role in this.

 

Well, when I originally tuned the 4Runner, I did it all in 3RD gear, WOT with OD off and ECT ON to get maximum RPMs. I tuned it to try to keep the AFRs between 11.5 and 11.8:1. At WOT in 3rd gear OD off and ECT on I'd stay right where I wanted to be all the way until fuel cut off at about 110MPH.

As of late I went back to revisit the tune, as I noticed in 2nd gear it would get a bit lean at the top of the RPM range (12.7s to 13.3 or so). I then dialed in 2nd gear to get it as close to 11.5 - 11.8 as I could, but I noticed this caused 3rd to get a bit more rich (11.0). Thusly I settled for 11.5 at the top of third to keep 2nd from going above 12 if possible. My truck will rarely see instances of near red line use. My litmus test is merging on the the free way with a good bit of throttle in 2nd...I'm good to go with that at 11.4 - 11.6 give or take.

I did this tuning in very cold air (20s). I then went back and tested it on a more mild day (high 50s) and I was nearly spot on through 2nd and third. So I'm happy with the tune at this point. My original tune was done at a 100 degree day with 40% humidity 3 years ago, and those cells of the map weren't really changed much. Maybe .1 or so on the fuel side richer in one or two cells.

Now after 4 or 5 consecutive runs, I will see the AFRs go from 11.5 or so down to 10.8 - 11.0. At that point I know I need to give the truck a rest. I can tell when it's happening because power falls off dramatically as well. If I cruise for 5 minutes or so, it'll go back to normal for another 4-5 WOT runs before I see this same occurrence. That makes me wonder if it's CAT over temp protection in the works.

Having an auto makes things a bit more tricky since I can't control the RPMs and gears like you can in a manual.

 

Hmm, that IS a bit extreme. Usually temp changes will cause an AFR change of a few points but that is a lot. That SURE is not timing causing it though, that i can tell you for sure. How much is timing changing BTW?

My truck also will randomly have a lot more power then other times for no reason, i think mine has a lot to do with the auto tranny but it could be the tune as well, i have not had my AFR gauge hooked up in some time due to the O2 sensor bung stripping out and not having time ot replace it.

That, i am not sure what is causing it, you said somthing earlier about a cat overheat? are you getting a CEL when it goes rich?

If you were to look at intake temps i bet that post supercharger you would see temps in the 130++ degree range after a few hard pulls easy.

 

No, I'm not seeing any CELs or anything out of the ordinary what so ever. Like I said, it's always done this, since day one, so I presume it's in the stock programming somewhere. Dead bone stock, I'd see 10.X AFRs at WOT. I've got video on my site showing that.

Not a big deal really since it takes so much to make it occur, and after a 5 minute cool down it doesn't happen again until I've done 5 or 6 more full throttle runs, so I know it's heat soak related and is to be expected.

I'd never heard of CAT over temp protection in relation to these Toyotas, but since fooling with my 2009 Challenger I've heard people mention disabling it when going forced induction on the Challenger for specifically this reason. Maybe Toyota has the same thing? Just a guess.

I'd guess timing retards by about 5 -7 degrees once I've run it hard 5 or 6 times in a row. 16 deg vs. 11 or so.

Here are a couple of videos of my tuning. As you can see it's pretty good. One shows the timing, the other is a more recent tune and I didn't hook up the BR-3 since timing was staying pretty consistent and I knew what it was doing. I've since tweaked the tune just a tad more adding .1 to .2 of fuel in the 4500 and 5000 9.5 and 10psi cells for 2nd gear to keep it below 12.

The results are never exactly the same two runs in a row for 2nd gear...they're close, but not identical. I've just accepted that. Third gear is dead on and repeatable over and over and over again. I'm not 100% sure why 2nd is different, but it is what it is and we are dealing with piggyback's here, so I'm not surprised.

I figure this should be a very reliable and safe vehicle with my current tune in place. Heck, these things are so bullet proof I've read of people not doing any extras, and just slap on the supercharger and drive the things for 200,000 miles. There are a couple of those over on CT. If those last 200K, mine should last virtually forever.

I've only heard of two that had problems. One person ignored a CEL for MAF sensor and burned a valve. The other was the guy on here who also burned a valve. I've e-mailed several folks who've had these for 10 or 12 years with blowers and not one of them said they've ever had problems. These engines are VERY good.

After completing this 4Runner with piggybacks and all, I don't wanna do it again. It was a fun project, but now that I've been there done that.....I'd prefer to just hook up an OBDII, flash a tune, and be done with it.

That's the reason I'm looking to just have a forged 6.4L motor built and installed for the Challenger to get about 600 NA horses. I'm at about 400 with the current 5.7L. It seems tuning on the Challenger with forced induction is an issue for closed loop. It stinks, but it seems Dodge is not willing to share code with the supercharger companies like Ford and Chevy do.

Anyway, enough rambling, here are my tune videos. Both are 3rd gear WOT to fuel cut. The first one is just nailing it in 3rd and letting it run on up. The 2nd shows the BR-3 and timing, open/closed loop, etc. The AFRs bounce around the first few seconds because I was merging on the to freeway getting on and off the throttle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnUMmOp8WX4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiVORewXfLE

 

I see, the tune is indeed pretty good and i am willing to bet virtually all the issues with it running rich are due to heat soak. Root tye superchargers are very prone to heat soak.

The reason 2nd is so inconsistant is due to there being less load on the car. Same with all cars, thats why we tune in 3rd or 4th and not 1st. The load in the low gears flycuates so easy and is not consistant.

As long as you are in range don't worry about 1st/2nd that much, just as long as they do go way off 1 way or the other.

Having also done this superchagring thing, i have to say that is IS worth it but if i was to do it again i think i would drop in a turbo deisel. Costs about the same once all is said and done. I don't regret it though, later i plan to do a Turbo deisel swap, before then though i will see just how far this 3.4 will go, 2.0 pulley & meth injection anyone?

Can you flash a tune to our ECUs? i was not aware we were able to. If so that is the way to go.

 

Yeah, I LOVE the 4Runner. Even after 3 years since completing the SC'd project I still love to drive it. I still can't believe just how dependable this car has been. I'm at 76,000 miles and still on the original brakes, tires, etc. I changed all the fluids at 60K, but other than that just oil and filter changes.

I only drive the 4Runner about 4,000 miles a year these days since I no longer commute back and forth to work in it, but I don't know if I'll ever sell it. I just can't bring myself to do so.

NO, you can't flash a tune to these cars. The new ones you can and that's why it's a bolt on and forget it ordeal with the new TRD blower. It's also intercooled.

I expected the Challenger, being an American muscle car, to be easily superchargable. However, it seems that's not the case. Quite disappointing really. WOT tuning isn't a problem, only closed loop part throttle, but that's enough of a reason for me to steer clear until it's resolved. Besides, a nice big thumping 6.4L would be pretty fun I think. 500RWHP and 525 ft lbs of torque should get the job done.

 

Yeah, that would do it. Personally not a big fan of the Challengers performance wise just because they weigh so dang much but looks wise they are real nice.

500rwhp is nothing to sneeze at. I am hoping to get close to that in my MR2 shortly with less then 1/3 the displacement and half as many cyclinders lol.

What i would really like to see in a 3rd gen 4runner other then a deisel would be a tundra 5.7l V8 with a blower. THAT would be sick.

I do have to agree though, i am also HIGHLY impressed with how well my truck has held up and unlike you i drive all my cars like i stole them everyday. Yet the only poblem i have had with mine is an exahust leak at the headers which i just can't pump myself up enough to fix. Otherwise not a single problem. Just change the oil.

 

Yeah, the Challengers are a tad heavy, but they are still very quick. Not to mention they're comfortable, roomy, and have a nice size trunk. I was originally going to buy a 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS, but the dealer wouldn't negotiate. Test drove a 2010 Mustang GT...pathetic. It's 400 lbs lighter than my Challenger but is gutless. I've trounced two of those with no problem what so ever.

They had employee pricing on Challenger for about 2 weeks early last year and I snagged the only Hemi Orange I could find.

Here's a shot of my best 0-60....that was with about 40 feet of tire spin. If I could learn to drive I'd easily be in the 4.8 range for 0-60.






And ....

 

Not bad for such a heavy car, thats just about what my MR2 ran when it was stock but it does weigh about 1300lb less then your car, helps just a tad.

I do love the way yours looks though, no doubt about that.

The mustang has been let down for the past decade by the 4.6 V8. The new 2011 mustang will finally have a motor worth going into a mustang though, a 5.0 32 valve 450hp V8! That is the first mustang i would own since the last 5.0 went out.

And to think that shelby has already supercharged that new motor, that will be scary!

 

Yeah, I wanna test drive the new 2011 Mustang. I think they're already taking orders. However I believe it's only 412HP and will have 11.0 compression. It's gonna be hard to supercharge that motor with such high compression. I know Shelby already did one, but it's only rated at 500HP. Not much of a gain for such a big price tag. I'd expect 550HP minimum.

 

The exact numbers are still not nailed down, i have heard everything from 475hp to 350hp. I expect to see somthing arounf the 425hp that the Camaro has though in the final version seeing as that is what it is competing with.

The shelby versions will have lower compression obiously, i have not seen any numbers from them yet but seeing as they got 540hp from the old 4.6 I have a feeling they will not rest till they better that.

Honestly though, i have this thing for real fast cars. So that pretty much leaves out any new car. For example there is an MR2 for sale near me, MINT condition that has over 750rwhp, i saw it on the dyno for only $17k. It will run low 9's in the 1/4 and has already been up to over 190mph and still had a lot left in it, easily a 225+mph car flat out if it doesn't run out of gears.

THAT is what i would spend my money on, half the price of a new car and 4x the performance.

The 2011 mustang is the only thing i have even thought about buying new in years.

 

Sorry to interrupt guys but Speedy, I notice some cold temp variances as well but attributed them more to winterized gas I guess. Also, I tuned in 3rd gear initially and my AFR's seem to be pretty consistant through the gears, that's weird you're a little off in 2nd. I had a similar issue with 3rd gear running around 12.5, but it mysteriously disappeared. At first I thought it might have been due to the torque converter locking in and out causing a slight change in RPM. I can't imagine that would be an issue though in 2nd.

Anyways, glad both you guys are out giving your trucks some attention. With your MR2's and Challengers running around, I'm sure the 4runners are feeling deprived of attention.