rimpainter.com

Ever tried the bang-around-with-a-rubber-mallet method? It works pretty good. I have isolated rattles on a couple different cars by doing that. Just an idea.

UKMyers

Can't get the vid to work. Curious if it's the same noise I have or not.

jimrockford

I'll try to post it again. I'm having trouble finding a place to host it. My MSN account limits me to a 1Mb upload and it's 2Mb.

It seems like I've been underneath my 4Runner more than I've been in it lately. I've checked just about everything I can think of and can't find the rattle. I did find some stuff loose, but I don't think the things I found are causing the noise - the valance under the bumper rattles if I hit it, and so does the radiator. But they don't make the right noise. I've only looked while doing other work, though. Maybe I need to devote some serious time to checking every single part...

shamrockmac5

I noticed the rattle on mine after I had purchased new rims and tires and also just assumed it was the center caps, figured I'd live with it but am curious if the steering knuckle route will fix yours. It sounds quite logical.

all4runner

This problem of the rattle in the front end was definately fixed with the replacement of the bushes in the steering knuckle. It sounds to me that everybody else is experiencing the same frustration I had trying to find the rattle. Many different mechanics and suspension specialists. I eventually used the ruber mallet method to shock the front wheels and pinpointed the rattle as coming from the centre of the wheels. This lead me to start the elimination process. I first removed the free wheeling hub and discovered that free play was apparrent at the end of the drive axle. This then lead me to search further and eventually found the knuckle bushings were worn. Just follow the Haynes manual through the procedure and all should be ok.

jimrockford

I extracted the audio from the video and saved it as an MP3. Hopefully it will work. Here it is:

Rattle.mp3 (204k)

Reldnew

Not to drive this subjuect into the ground or anything, but it sure sounds to me like the bushings in the steering nuckle. These are famous for this. Some have said that they now come w/ roller bearings but I have not seen these yet. Don't forget to coat them with a Lithium base Moly grease before you put the axles back in. I wish I had the money for the parts I would do a write up on this for yotatech. Oh yeah, if you are doing this on the car you will need a slide hammer.

jimrockford

Thanks for all the help and advice. The steering knuckle makes sense. I've got an appointment at the dealership again Monday and I'll have them focus on that.

What gets me is that it seems like there are a lot of people having the same problem, but the dealerships don't seem to have a clue. I've had multiple people check mine out and tell me it's good to go. Well, it's not and it's obvious that there's a problem to anyone who rides with me - except the damn mechanic.

jimrockford

For anyone who has replaced steering knuckle bushings:

Does this PDF file go into enough depth to successfully replace the bushings? It seems like a lot of work and I'm not sure I'd be able to do it. There have got to be several gotchas. Any input?

Suspension Tech Article (PDF Format, 203k)
See section labled "Steering Knuckle"

jrallan26

I had the same problem with my 4x4. The bushings in my front shocks had worn out and caused the rattle.

Reldnew

Yeah, now it is kind of a "known condition" but for years you had people going crazy because they were replacing EVERYTHING in the front end and still suffering from the noise. The guys at my local dealership even told me, "man, we couldn't figure that out for months when they started coming in". In cold weather climates they may groan or grind until warmed up. It is crucial to use a Lithium based grease w/ moly on the bushings and the axles where they pass through the bushings.
In brief:
Remove hub---remove half shaft axle----pull outer bushing w/slide hammer----drive out inner bushing w/ (20mm ??????) socket --------re-assemble and grease it all up.
Mine have been due for quite awhile---I'll check the price of parts and do a write up soon.

BUT-it still could be your shocks!? -If you have a 2nd gen with add your bushings are gonna be due for replacement anyhow.

jimrockford

Shouldn't be the shocks. I've got less than 20 miles on them. Just replaced them Friday with Edelbrock Performer IAS and an Old Man Emu steering stabilizer - after the dealership told me that was what the noise was coming from. Still got the noise...

On a scale of 1 to 10, how hard is it to replace the bushings? I'm thinking its got to be a 7 or 8. Replacing the front shocks was about a 3 and this looks considerably more difficult.

all4runner

The level of difficulty for this job (replacing the bushings in the knuckle) is proberably a 9. It involves removing the wheel bearings and it presents a great opportunity to check these out as well. You will need a fairly good tool kit to get you through and you will definately need a torque wrench to complete the job. If you feel it may be above you, a specialist 4x4 workshop is the way to go. Good Luck!!!!!

Reldnew

It's a little involved, but not that "hard". Just follow the manual closely. There is even a place online that details it. It is a good idea to check out the wheel bearings when doing this if you want, but they do not have to be removed to do it. The axleshaft passes through the axle stub, riding on said spindle bushings. You dont even have to take the wheel off if you can get the axle/driveshaft out without doing so. Then you are 80% done. We have actually done this in an apartment complex parking area with a strict "no working on cars" policy. I think the apartment cop knew what we were doing but we just tried to be casual about it and not swear or drink beer.

jimrockford

Welll, I took it to the dealership today. I asked about the steering knuckle bushings and they pointed me to the "spindle bushings" as described by Reldnew. Are they the same thing?

I had them put it on a lift and check them to be sure. The mechanic shook the front axle near the CV joint back and forth. It made the rattle noise that I have been experiencing. I gave it a shake and immediately recognized the sound. It felt like there was quite a bit of play.

The mechanic said they've had a rash of these rattle complaints lately and finally narrowed it down to the spindle bushings. He said that the axle passes through the spindle which uses a brass bushing as a bearing. That bushing wears out and causes the rattle. They replace them with aftermarket roller bearings that reduce the chance of it failing later on. In some cases, the axle shaft is worn as well, meaning the axle and bearings both need to be replaced. They quoted me $700 for the job and I don't know if that includes the axle or not.

I've about tapped myself out with all of the repairs and upgrades I've done lately. I don't have the $700 to have it done at the dealership, so I may give it a try myself. I have access to a shop with a lift and all of the tools I'll need, plus mechanics on duty who can give advice. So, I think I might be able to tackle it. Of course, this will be the biggest job I've attempted thus far...

Also, I've discovered that if I put the vehicle in 4WD, the noise stops. I was planning to mention that to the mechanic, but he beat me to the punch. He told me that a good way to tell if the spindle bushings are bad is to put it in 4WD and see if the noise goes away. 4WD puts enough tension on the axle to prevent it from knocking around.

If I wind up doing it myself, I'll try to get some pictures. I'll post prices for parts once I get that information too. Once again, I've got to thank everyone for their help. This forum is the best resource I've found anywhere for help and advice.

jimrockford

I just spoke with the dealership. $700 doesn't include axles if they are needed. They did drop the price to $550 though because of all the hassle. I told them that I just couldn't afford that right now and wanted to do it myself.

I asked for the part numbers and prices. Here's what they gave me:

Roller Bearings (replacement for stock brass bushings)
Toyota Part Number: 90364-30011
Price: $38.69 each

Collars
Toyota Part Number: 90381-32001
Price: $10.32 each

I called Jay Mark's Toyota and got a quote of $25.23 and $7.18 for the same parts, but I didn't really vibe with the parts guy. He didn't seem like he wanted to do business.

I also called Mike at Extreme Off-Road to see if he had any ideas. He wasn't familiar with the parts but is going above and beyond to help out. He said he would track down the parts and call back tomorrow with a price. He also called Downey for me to check on 1.5" HD rear coils. He says Downey got in the coils (they've been out for a couple of weeks) and are having them powdercoated. They'll be ready in a few days. I'm hoping to place an order with Mike for coils and bearings tomorrow...

Reldnew

The good news is that it really doesn't hurt anything, it is just annoying. I mean when they get really worn you might pick up a shimmy in 4wheel at 30mph+ speeds but it is not like they are gonna fail and leave you stranded. The bushing is brass so it will wear and can be replaced. They would have to be really gone or bone dry of grease for a long time to wear the surface on the axle down. If you have a slide hammer it really is not that hard-getting the axle in and out takes most of the time.

Del

Sweet. Anyone know how long the whole thing would take (both sides). Also, I've got the Chilton's manual and it isn't very helpful/descriptive with things like this. Anyone know another I could use? I've also got the 95 4Runner PDF (although I have a 94, is there any difference?) file that was on here a while ago, but haven't been able to find anything in there either.

Also, unrelated, for the Downey coils, is it pretty much a simple and straight swap? The manual I have talks about disconnecting this and that, but I'm not sure it's all neccesary. Thanks.

Reldnew

Go here for specifications on axleshaft/spindle bushings runout:

http://www.net-impress.com/4runner/cd/SUSPENS2.PDF

It is a PDF file. If it does not work back off the SUSPENS2.pdf and go to the main directory. It is basically an entire 4runner service manual online.

You also might find this very interesting:

http://www.alldata.com/service_provi.../20000706.html

jimrockford

Reldnew: Thanks for the links. I've got the PDF files but hadn't seen that other site. I'm going to have to print that page out and take it with me when I do the job.

I checked on the grease they mention in the article. The dealership quoted me $18 for it. Must be an awful big tub, or maybe it's just another great deal from the dealership. Do you know of a less expensive substitute? I've read a few posts that said to be sure to use the correct type of grease. "Toyota Chassis Grease" sounds pretty generic, though. Any thoughts?