Bob, got your email. I'll post here so that my random thoughts might spark good ideas from the other members who are likely more knowledgeable than me...

Wow.
I read the thread with your story. It is perplexing, I'm not an expert but I've replaced a number of clutches and a few transmissions myself, and I did manage a transmission shop for a few years (mostly autos though, and I didn't rebuild them, I was the boss...)

I can see no reason at all at first glance that the clutch job would cause the problem. Nothing in the tranny gets taken apart, the clutch (as you know) is not inside the trans. A clutch replacement is easy, (after you do it once and see how it works...) I remember the first one I did took a weekend, second one only took 4 hours. Typical problems would cause shifting issues or clutch flutter, not a trans problem. Throwout bearings can be bad, but that would make noises related to depressing and releasing the pedal, even at idle. As others have said, flywheel issues would screw up engagement smoothness (and could even cause vibration at any rpm,) so that's unlikely.

The throwout bearing is easy enough to replace. Might be worth it to try another one, they are common and inexpensive and bad ones aren't unkown. Should be a new one in there, but even so it could be bad. Hard to imagine the mech wouldn't have replaced it, there is no extra labor involved when doing a clutch. But as I said, the TO bearing wouldn’t cause the symptoms you describe.

No reason I can see why a new clutch would cause any additional strain on the old tranny and that it would uncover a latent problem. Coincidence does sound like the only explanation, but it sure is amazing if so.

Alignment/ bolt torque of the bellhousing? Can't see how the thing could possibly be misaligned, but a visual inspection should show any issues there.

Based on what I *think* I know about the internals of that trans, it doesn't make sense. So okay, let's assume it's NOT the trans. What else could it be? The only other moving parts that are wrenched on are the driveshafts and crossmember. The crossmember can't go in wrong. Check to see if all the bolts are in the crossmember-to-frame and that the trans mount bolts are good. Check the trans mount cushion block for integrity.

That leaves driveshafts. Don't rely on his matchmarks. He shouldn't have unbolted the rear driveshaft at the axle, no need to. He may have pulled it apart at the slip joint. I would check to see if the yokes are lined up. Even a teeny bit off and there will be driveline vibes. Then, check the front one the same way. Lastly, you might consider checking the drivelines by removing the rear driveshaft and going for a drive in 4wd. Replace it and try the front.

Assuming nothing - double check to make sure the Tcase is going into 2wd.

But, if there is really metal shavings in the trans, I see no likely way out of a trans rebuild or replacement.
Dealership rebuilds are stupidly expensive. It will run 2 grand.
Independent shops should run less - 1200-1500 as a guess.
I would buy a used one or get a rebuilt from someone like Marlin. (Another good source used to be Indian Creek Auto Salvage Grand Pass, Oregon http://www.indcreek.com indcrk1970@netscape.net )
Do it yourself. It's not hard. The info in this thread about renting a trans jack is all good. The other tip that comes to mind is using all the socket extensions you can find to reach the upper bellhousing bolts - the only "easy" way to reach them is from back by the transfer case - extensions to reach all the way forward to the bellhousing. If you follow a shop manual (get one,) most will tell you to remove the crossmember - Don't. Leave it bolted to the trans and strap it to the jack - it's faster and more secure too. Otherwise it is really pretty simple.

Good luck!

 

ok i took it to another shop. all ASE guys there. one of the guys who was a Toyota ASE said he knows exactly what caused this because he's seen/heard it before. basically, he says that the shop who did my work did not align the input shaft correctly into the clutch disc (thats what i remember) and then decided to torque the bellhousing bolts down vs making 100% sure and then hand tightening the bolts down and then torque wrenching them to spec. he says that the splines werent perfectly aligned going in and was forced, causing the teeth to not sit within each other. this is why the gear noise in the tranny get increasingly louder from 2nd to 4th.

in short, time to buy a new clutch kit and a rebuilt tranny in the distant future...or until i can't take this noise anymore.

Lesson learned: you get what you pay for. in retrospect, $400 for a new air compressor, some air tools, a 2nd hand, and a free weekend couldve avoided all this.

looks like a trip to marlin's shop will be in the works down the line.

bob

 

just curious???? what do you need a compressor for?

sorry your mech screwed ya

 

i hate wrenching w/ hand tools unless absolutely necessary

 

No recourse against the shop who did the work? Seems like they were paid to do a job and failed to do it.

 

there is no point to sue a friend. i know business is business, but ive re-learned an important lesson.

 

Oh. I didnt know it was a friend of yours. Shoulda read the whole thread.

 

new toys, AYE!!

 

Wow, Bob......I have definately seen some rough repairs, but I have never heard of one like that. What the other tech was saying makes sense, but I honestly didn't even think is was possible to force it in that badly (I would have though the pilot bearing would prevent you from inserting the tranny output shaft improperly......the clutch must have been SERIOUSLY out of alignment when your friend bolted the pressure plate down). Make sure you check the ears on the tranny bell housing to make sure none are cracked or broken from getting torqued before the tranny and engine made contact. I would still like to see pics when you go ahead with the second repair.

Don't beat yourself up over this too badly (we've all done some stupid stuff in the past that cost us $$$$ in the long run), just get yourself some airtools so you can tackle the next one yourself.

 

Ok guys, I finally got some resolution to the issue: I talked w/ the mechanic and he said to take it to his friend’s shop. The friend is an ASE T-Tech too (like my friend’s friend) and he theorizes that the bearings in the front of the transmission (in front of 4th and 5th gear) are rubbing as a result of the first mechanic’s inability to properly align and mate the input shaft of the transmission into the splines in the clutch. He theorizes that the input shaft was left there hanging and consequently, it was bent and then installed in place.

Over the last week or two, the grinding noise in 3rd and 4th have lessened. This is why he thinks that it was related to the input shaft as the the gradual settling and the weight shift over time is causing less stress on the front part of the transmission and bearings (there’s no noise in 5th gear at all). I hope that makes sense.

Anyways, after talking w/ his friend, my mechanic agreed to pay for all the repairs. We will see if his t-tech friend’s theory is correct. The fix will require that the tranny be pulled and then the bearings be replaced.

Hopefully I can be there to see this all going down b/c I want to see the wear on the bearings. Ill ask for the parts.

Bob

 

Done plenty of synchro rings (also know as blocking ring) and if you have a clash or grind when going into as geat, irs worn. Not an easy task, some special pullers are needed and a press. I would not recommenbt this for a first time DIY'r but someone with good mech skills and a factory manual can do it. Still quite complicated.

 

update:

as i explained above, the original mechanic agreed to pay for the repairs. so his buddy, a t-ten grad and 10 yr or so guy from various toy dealerships around here, bought some bearings that he thought were damaged and he should be done tomorrow afternoon. my 4runner has been at his shop sinc last friday, so as you can imagine, i'm dying to get back in the saddle...though the wife's gs300 is quite nice too

i'll let you guys know how it goes. and if all works out ok, i'm going to post up the name of the 2nd mechanic for you SGV, CA guys. he seems like a very good, honest, and competent mechanic.

bob

 

went to pick up the vee-hickle today and the mechanic replaced all the bearings in the front of the transmission. he said that he still hears noise in 4th on load only. but not so much in 3rd anymore. he says he will change out the clutch disc and hopefully that will do it

he says its pretty apparent that the tranny was not aligned properly and that it was forced in...grrrrr

bob

 

well i finally got the truck back today and i'm glad to report all is well now. there is a faint trace of that original sound in 4th, but its really faint and you really have to be mashing it.

so basically what the new mech did was to make sure that the input shaft was true and within spec---it was. next, he replaced all the bearings in the front part of the tranny. that seemed to eliminate all the noise in 2nd and third but not in 4th. so he had it last night and today and he removed the clutch kit and put another one in. i agreed to pay for it, so i'm out an additional $245. well, the good thing is that it worked.

we looked at the clutch kit that my previous mech put in and it appears some things may or may not have been done, and that includes parts as well:

- the clutch disc did not look like one that only had 1000 miles on it.
- the flywheel was not resurfaced (or not resurfaced well) even though i was charged
- the pilot bearing appears to be the original pilot bearing

so all in all, it looks like the previous mechanic did not do a good install job and probably did not put in all the right parts.

case closed. i'm happy w/ what i have now.

now it's time to finish the e-locker install and some new meats!

bob

 

What a hassle, glad it is all taken care of. I do recall your transmission was more difficult to shift than mine when I drove your truck in Mammoth.

I have the opposite problem, I have a whining noise in all gears but 4th. It makes the whirling sound when it is idling in neutral with the clutch out. As soon as I push the clutch in, the sound goes away. I've heard it could be just about anything--a pilot bearing, throw out bearing to a worn tranny. I hope that is not the case, it's been running on full synthetic and the truck only has 67,000 miles on it. I do have a warranty, so I might try and persue it that way.

 

Mine makes exactly the same noise. I took it to 3 dealerships when I first got it because I was so worried about it. I even made a thread about it here on YT. All the dealerships, techs, and even a foreman said it was "normal."

If it makes you feel any better, I purchased an 00 5-speed (V6) with 16K miles for resale purposes and it did the same thing, only a bit fainter.

 

ken,

thanks dude. yeah, my clutch was definitely harder to shift, but its pretty good now. i took a trip up to moraga this weekend to make a quick chirstmas visit to my bro and mom's place and it passed the highway test. all in all, theres a teeny bit of noise in 4th but you REALLY have to mash it and listen for it.

bob