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performance chip for 3.4L???
12-03-2002, 01:11 PM
#21
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Originally posted by bbeast
Gadget
- U say that 95-97 3.4L's can be "chipped" by El Prototypes. After reading your site a while back, I've tried to get in contact with them to find out more about their ECU but I've had absolutely no success. Evidently they don't want my business for some reason or just don't like responding to e-mails and voicemails - whatever. Since you seem experienced with their products - what does their modified ECU actually do? Would this be something that you'd recommend for me? I'm not interested in getting bigger injectors or a bigger pump at this point (although I probably will get the Boost-a-Pump), but I would like the Runner to run faster and still maintain reliability....
Gadget
- U say that 95-97 3.4L's can be "chipped" by El Prototypes. After reading your site a while back, I've tried to get in contact with them to find out more about their ECU but I've had absolutely no success. Evidently they don't want my business for some reason or just don't like responding to e-mails and voicemails - whatever. Since you seem experienced with their products - what does their modified ECU actually do? Would this be something that you'd recommend for me? I'm not interested in getting bigger injectors or a bigger pump at this point (although I probably will get the Boost-a-Pump), but I would like the Runner to run faster and still maintain reliability....
I think you would be much better off with an FTC or Uni-Chip then an ELP modification. You can do so much more for less money with a piggy back.
Gadget
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12-03-2002, 01:29 PM
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Sorry, I'm not asking you to tell me what to do. I'm just trying to find out more information on what the ELP modified ECU actually would do for me. Therefore I can make an relatively educated decision on where to go from here. I figured since you've had experience with this product, you might not mind sharing it with me. That's all.
I mean obviously it doesn't just remove the speed limiter, right? What I'm trying to find out is if I'm not going to install bigger fuel injectors and a bigger pump, then what modifications are worthwhile investing in?
I mean obviously it doesn't just remove the speed limiter, right? What I'm trying to find out is if I'm not going to install bigger fuel injectors and a bigger pump, then what modifications are worthwhile investing in?
12-03-2002, 03:14 PM
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I think maybe you read into that a bit.
When I set out to change something I do it for a specific reason and I have decided in advance what I want done differntly. Then I set out to fine the best way to accomplish it.
There are several issues with the supercharger:
HG/LR-Ping
High RPM lean out
Surging
and so on.
When you decide what specific issue you want to address then you can decide how to best accomplish it. So what do you want the upgrade to do for you?
I can tell you this. The ELP ECU modification does not successfully address or cure any of the issues with the supercharger and its problems. This is why I suggested that you would be much better off with a piggy back device that has been proven to cure all the issues for less money.
If I was starting over, I would not consider an ELP ECU upgrade, and JET is a total JOKE.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
When I set out to change something I do it for a specific reason and I have decided in advance what I want done differntly. Then I set out to fine the best way to accomplish it.
There are several issues with the supercharger:
HG/LR-Ping
High RPM lean out
Surging
and so on.
When you decide what specific issue you want to address then you can decide how to best accomplish it. So what do you want the upgrade to do for you?
I can tell you this. The ELP ECU modification does not successfully address or cure any of the issues with the supercharger and its problems. This is why I suggested that you would be much better off with a piggy back device that has been proven to cure all the issues for less money.
If I was starting over, I would not consider an ELP ECU upgrade, and JET is a total JOKE.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
12-03-2002, 03:20 PM
#25
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Originally posted by Patrick D
How much does the Unichip go for anyway? I didn't see it on the site.
How much does the Unichip go for anyway? I didn't see it on the site.
The Unichip is around $700 installed and that includes several hours on the Dyno to dial it in.
You will need to look at the dealer/installation shop list on the Racers Group site, call a local shop and find out how much they will charge you. Most shops charge in the neighborhood of $700.
Hope this helps.
Dr. Z
12-03-2002, 04:24 PM
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There are several issues with the supercharger:
HG/LR-Ping
High RPM lean out
Surging
and so on.
HG/LR-Ping
High RPM lean out
Surging
and so on.
12-03-2002, 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by naksukow
I think its more of a problem with the fuel system that cannot support the increased demand. If people don't want to spend the money to ungrade their fuel systems, maybe they should put a larger pulley on to decrease the boost. Compressor surge can be fixed with adding a vavle to vent air under no throttle conditions.
I think its more of a problem with the fuel system that cannot support the increased demand. If people don't want to spend the money to ungrade their fuel systems, maybe they should put a larger pulley on to decrease the boost. Compressor surge can be fixed with adding a vavle to vent air under no throttle conditions.
I have no problems with surge?? Am I supposed to? I do plan on adding some fuel..but for now it runs perfect all the way to 100mph.???
12-03-2002, 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by naksukow
I thought the new trd supercharger had a built in valve. Not sure though.
I thought the new trd supercharger had a built in valve. Not sure though.
..it does, I thought that might be why I don't have this problem
Allthough people are complaining about running lean also, which I have no problem with.BTW- nice to see you got a supra also, I had to sell mine to get the Runner....
..former owner of a '94 BPU++++ car...still miss that car
12-03-2002, 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by naksukow
I think its more of a problem with the fuel system that cannot support the increased demand. If people don't want to spend the money to ungrade their fuel systems, maybe they should put a larger pulley on to decrease the boost. Compressor surge can be fixed with adding a vavle to vent air under no throttle conditions.
I think its more of a problem with the fuel system that cannot support the increased demand. If people don't want to spend the money to ungrade their fuel systems, maybe they should put a larger pulley on to decrease the boost. Compressor surge can be fixed with adding a vavle to vent air under no throttle conditions.
It is not a problem with compressor surge. The impellers are between the throttle plate and the engine unlike most turbos. This system does not need a blow off valve to dump boost when the throttle is rapidly closed. The supercharge does have a bypass valve that equalizes the pressure on both sides of the impellers during none boost conditions. This is because it is still turning at speed ulike a turbo. It reduces heat and parasitic drag making the whole system very efficent.
Gadget
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12-03-2002, 06:13 PM
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The surging occurs on the earlier trucks and it is a problem with the ECU making to wide fluctuations in the fuel trim.
12-03-2002, 06:21 PM
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It does not seem so as the range where it occurs is also the range where the HG/LR-Ping occurs and that is result of the timing not being retarded.
Gadget
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Gadget
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12-03-2002, 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by naksukow
Gadget, are you running the stock pulley or have you upgraded to the maxx pulley (9.5psi)?
Gadget, are you running the stock pulley or have you upgraded to the maxx pulley (9.5psi)?
I have a MAW pulley and played with it. It does give a good boost on the bottom end, but not much on the top. I think that little TRD supercharger is really maxxed out as it is. If you want more on the top you need a bigger supercharger and some kind of charge air cooling.
I want more and I hope to have a larger intercooled supercharger running in the next 6 months or so. Stay tuned and don't ask me about it unit it is running....
Gadget
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12-03-2002, 10:12 PM
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Supercharger is boost limited by the pulley.
Turbochargers are typically boost limited by the wastegate.
ECU or chips from aftermarket vendors can have register changes that affect your ignition timing and fuel map. Maybe the more detailed vendor will pay attention to barometric, air intake charge temp, and coolant temp correction maps as well.
Problem with ECU chips is that it's burnt to a PROM and one size may not fit all (or work with different set-ups).
If you have money and want to modify your Runner the right way, you can get an aftermarket ECU like Haltech, Electromotive, and AEM (to name a few). I haven't seen a serious standalone EMS for 4Runners since typically, these trucks aren't raced competitively. You'll need money for the installation, EMS, and dyno time.
An alternatively to safely add fuel is to use an aftermarket fuel computer like Haltech F11, Apexi AFC, HKS F-CON, and so on.
However, it only modifies the duty cycle based on engine load and throttle position. The more advanced piggy backs may have an input for manifold pressure.
It is not the end all since you are limited by the fuel components and the ECU's maximum duty cycle (piggy backs can only add so much).
A/F Ratio meter is only good as the O2 sensor it's using. So remember when you buy a $200 A/F gauge from Greedy or HK$.
A true way of measuring A/F ratio is to use a wideband lambda O2 sensor and controller (temperature control and interpreter), like FJO or UEGO.
Dealer is not accurate at all by saying you won't have more fuel when you add a fuel pump or injectors. It will add fuel even if the stock ECU attempts to trim it (trim is limited otherwise driveability would suck). However, it'll add fuel ALL the time. So, your miles per gallon suffer as well as your lungs from breathing in more exhaust (unburnt fuel). You'll probably clog the cats up faster since more fuel will be unburnt.
The topic originator should use a piggy back fuel computer since the TRD supercharger doesn't create massive cfms like a huge turbocharger. Increasing duty cycle/injector flow capacity/fuel pressure should handle 9psi of boost.
The supra forum can provide some insight. Just remember that there are more extreme cases there and a lot more $ put into their projects.
Just be careful if you want to add more boost and more modifications. A wideband kit (~$900) and standalone EMS (~$1200) and dyno time is cheaper than a new engine.
J
Turbochargers are typically boost limited by the wastegate.
ECU or chips from aftermarket vendors can have register changes that affect your ignition timing and fuel map. Maybe the more detailed vendor will pay attention to barometric, air intake charge temp, and coolant temp correction maps as well.
Problem with ECU chips is that it's burnt to a PROM and one size may not fit all (or work with different set-ups).
If you have money and want to modify your Runner the right way, you can get an aftermarket ECU like Haltech, Electromotive, and AEM (to name a few). I haven't seen a serious standalone EMS for 4Runners since typically, these trucks aren't raced competitively. You'll need money for the installation, EMS, and dyno time.
An alternatively to safely add fuel is to use an aftermarket fuel computer like Haltech F11, Apexi AFC, HKS F-CON, and so on.
However, it only modifies the duty cycle based on engine load and throttle position. The more advanced piggy backs may have an input for manifold pressure.
It is not the end all since you are limited by the fuel components and the ECU's maximum duty cycle (piggy backs can only add so much).
A/F Ratio meter is only good as the O2 sensor it's using. So remember when you buy a $200 A/F gauge from Greedy or HK$.
A true way of measuring A/F ratio is to use a wideband lambda O2 sensor and controller (temperature control and interpreter), like FJO or UEGO.
Dealer is not accurate at all by saying you won't have more fuel when you add a fuel pump or injectors. It will add fuel even if the stock ECU attempts to trim it (trim is limited otherwise driveability would suck). However, it'll add fuel ALL the time. So, your miles per gallon suffer as well as your lungs from breathing in more exhaust (unburnt fuel). You'll probably clog the cats up faster since more fuel will be unburnt.
The topic originator should use a piggy back fuel computer since the TRD supercharger doesn't create massive cfms like a huge turbocharger. Increasing duty cycle/injector flow capacity/fuel pressure should handle 9psi of boost.
The supra forum can provide some insight. Just remember that there are more extreme cases there and a lot more $ put into their projects.
Just be careful if you want to add more boost and more modifications. A wideband kit (~$900) and standalone EMS (~$1200) and dyno time is cheaper than a new engine.
J
12-04-2002, 06:52 PM
#37
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WOW!!!
I started this thread on 9/16. It has gotten kicked around and collected two pages full of responses. I can confidently say that my original question has been answered.
Thanks everyone. You guys are great.
I started this thread on 9/16. It has gotten kicked around and collected two pages full of responses. I can confidently say that my original question has been answered.
Thanks everyone. You guys are great.
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