tomus1000

has anyone heard of, or had any experience with performande chips for the 34.L v6? I have a 2002 supercharged doublecab and i am looking to get more fuel to the thing. I can't find any information on "chipping" it. Can this be done? Easily?

XtremeOff-Road

All I can tell you is that I have not heard anything positive about the chips...I do not feel as if you will aquire the performance improvement you are looking for. Just my opinion.

Mike

turboale

as the old say'n goes...

if it isn't forced induction.... a chip won't do much....

QuattroDave

Ah, that's the beauty. His IS forced induction - he says it's supercharged.

I have an '89 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro sedan. Stock, 160 HP (2.2 liter, 5 cyl). Added an upgrade chip, and now have approx 210 HP, with no other mods (not even wastegate spring). How is that done?

The OEM chip puts a limit on how much boost the forced air induction system is permitted to develop. In the case of my Quattro, the max OEM manifold pressure was 1.3 bar (that's atmospheres, approx - subtract "1" and multiply by about 15 to get "boost" in the usually-quoted PSI terms - in this case about 4.5 pounds of boost). With the aftermarket chip, the boost limit was removed, and the turbo can crank up as much boost as it's physically capapable of developing. The engine's knock sensor system continues to operate, and if pre-ignition results, the timing gets retarded. I now have to run with high octane fuel to maximize power, but when I do, I can see 1.8 bar (about 12 PSI boost) on the dashboard. G-tek measurements suggest about 210 HP (assuming the 160HP was correct before).

So, when you go looking for a chip, understand that the best you can do is to find one that removes (or relaxes) the boost limit on the supercharger. I don't think an OEM style belt-driven supercharger can develop as much raw boost as a turbo, though, so the improvements may not be as dramatic as you might want.

Also, when you do anything that increases HP, you often have to upgrade other things, just to allow it to happen. For most vehicles, getting more air in (the fundamental change that more boost provides), thus allowing more fuel to be burned, often requires larger fuel injectors and a higher-capacity fuel pump in order to make it happen. Fortunately for me, many of the Bosch components used in the 5 cyl Audi are sized for 6 cyl engines, so I got the improvement with stock injectors, fuel pump, etc.

A friend of mine has a 1987 Supra Turbo. He's increased the HP several times, and right at the start, he had to replace fuel injectors and pump, in order to support the higher fuel flow required.

Now, if the engine doesn't have a turbo or supercharger, the biggest measured improvements I've ever heard of with a chip were around 10 horsepower. As weak as my 1994 Toyota truck is, I doubt that I'd pay hundreds of dollars only for 10 HP.

Have fun...

Dave

tomus1000

Dave,

Do you thing that the oem chip has a boost limiter in its programing? The truck is not supercharged from the factory. The blower is an aftermarket (although waranteed and Toyota TRD supported, thank goodness) "bolt on item".

I am looking for an "easy" way to get more fuel into the motor to support all that extra air. A chip, an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, what will work.

The dealer says that upgrading injectors and pump will not help because the factory ECU controlls the duration of the injector anyway. Meaning that no more fuel would actually get into the motor. I would like to try and avoid major $$$ from a complete fuel system upgrade, so I am trying to excaust all the "small" things first. I think that I only need a little help in the fuel department to make everything right. It is a little bit starved for fuel at high rpm's, and I want to solve this problem.

Thanks,
Noel

QuattroDave

Interesting question. The OEM chip would only have a boost limiter in it if the factory programmed it ASSUMING you were going to add the supercharger. There's no such thing as "boost" if you don't have a super charger or turbo charger. They are added to make boost.

There are tricks you can play to increase fuel flow. HKS and some company called "Wolf" make a gadget that takes the signals from your standard ECU, increases the duty cycle, then passes them on to the fuel injectors. It's not a cheap gadget, though, and still tops out at the max that the specific fuel injectors can handle.

The whole process can get expensive in a hurry because the first thing you need to add is a fuel/air ratio measurement device. I'm not a hop-up guru, but I think that's basically an exhaust temperature gauge, and they are not cheap - hundreds of bucks minimally.

Don't run that engine lean for long. High RPM and too much air is what burns holes through pistons over time. Until you get more fuel into it, try to stay out of the region where it's starving for fuel.

My guess it that a high-flow injector allows more fuel through when it's open, so even if the ECU maintains the duration, you'd get more fuel. I'm also not a fluid pressure engineer, but it seems to me that higher fuel pressure and the same injector also means more flow for the same duration.

If you're OK wading through a deep maze of info, I think there are a LOT of guys who love to deal with this stuff on Toyota motors if you start at www.supras.com. They're all running inline Toyota 6 engines, but they may have some really good ideas about what to do next.

Good luck.

Sorry for the delayed posting but my job went crazy and it's rare that I get online much at all any more.

Dave

CLin9383

just to clarify, isn't 1 bar = 14.7 psi of boost??

PhxTRDRunner

A new fuel pump and injectors will make more fuel availabe for the engine. The larger injectors will definately increase the fuel going in, but only porportionate to the size you increase to. You will need a fuel controller such as a Apex'i SAFC to actually increase in a tuneable fasion.


Maybe Gadget can add to this, but I think I'm pretty close

PhxTRDRunner

Yes it is.


1.8 bar = 26.46 PSI <--How much I ran in my old eclipse

.8 bar would be much closer to 12 psi at 11.76.

NerfHerder-97SR5-

Is there going to be a quiz after this post?

naksukow

A supercharger is belt driven off the crank pulley, the ecu has nothing to do with its boost level or boost cut.

naksukow

You want to go with an after market air-fuel computer. That plus a wideband o2 sensor with some dyno tuning time will help.

BlueTrane

I was doing some research about this online last night. I too have a S/C 2002 3.4L. Anyway, I found that JET does some modifications but Gadget says it helped him very little. The E.L. Prototypes chip is way too expensive $750. Venom makes a unit that can be turned on and off that monitors your inputs and sends the ECU modified results that result in more horsepower and improved mixtures. I don't know if the Venom400 is out yet for our engine. I've read a couple negetive reviews for the Venom unit and some very encouraging ones. It sells for around $300. I'm still undecided.

Back to JET. There is a guy with a sweet 4Runner at www.cardomain.com. He has nitrous, s/c, and several other mods that result in a 14.8 quarter mile time. He uses a JET chip. I was thinking about emailing him and asking his opinions. Anyway, let me know if you find anything out.

Nick

Dr. Zhivago

The Venom does NOT work at WOT, so in my opinion, it is pointless. EL Prototypes can only modify the ECM's on the 95-97 3.4L Engines. If your truck is not one of those years, you're SOL. I have heard mostly bad stuff about JET and what they can or cannot do on our ECM's. According to Jay, the ECM's are Flashable and can be reprogrammed. It just requires the right equipment and knowing what to change in the ECM's Timing and Fuel Maps.

Personally, I think the Unichip looks the most promising. I have not had any personal experience with it, but have heard and read nothing but great things about it. However, the most power increase you can hope for on a NA Engine by tuning the ECM is probably around 10-15%, with 5-10% probably being more realistic. The Unichip is around $700 installed and that includes several hours on the Dyno to dial it in. Forced Induction engines would definitely benefit more from this wonderful little box than us guys sucking in air with a vacuum.

My .02
Dr. Z

Gadget

Your truck can not be "chipped".

ELP can not do anything newer then 97.

I think JET is flat ripping people off as the type of chips used on Toyota ECU are not the type that can be erased and rewritten. That is why ELP removes the chip and physically replaces it with a whole new circuit board.

If you are serious, you are left with a complete aftermarket stand alone engine control system like AEM, SDS, Electromotive, OR going with a piggy back system like and AFC, SS FTC or a Uni-Chip.

There you have it!

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

Jay

Well it is possible, but can anyone do it? I know toyota can.

HERE is a TSB for a RAV4 that has the dealer "Recalibrating the ECM" to correct for a false MIL ON light.


Jay

Edit = ECU.... ECM Bah... whats it matter

Beowulf

Ditto on that Dr. Z, to me its the most promising and if you look at their list of Uni-chip dealers, you will just happen to see a link for no other than ... TRD.

I have a feeling that Uni-Chip may be the makers of the piggyback system that comes with the Tundra S/C and supposedly TRD is also releasing a piggyback system for the 3.4L S/C with an extra injector to address ping, so I think there may be a connection (but I'm just speculating here).

Gadget

Well that is good news. That is the first Toyota ECU that I have seen that can be reflashed. I heard Toyota was going to start using ECUs that can be because of that recent war they had with the EPA that almost caused them to replace all the OBDII ECUs in the US. That scared them into making the change. Do you know if any of the 3rd gen ECUs for the 4RUnner have that capability?

It is really good news that they are starting to do this. Now the tuners can have as much fun with the Toyotas as they are with the Ford and GM vehicles. It will be just a flash update of the program to make the performance changes you want. FUN, FUN, FUN!

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

Jay

It is my understanding that all the current ECU's have this capability. Not sure when it started. Ill see if I can come up with some information.

Jay

bbeast

Gadget

- U say that 95-97 3.4L's can be "chipped" by El Prototypes. After reading your site a while back, I've tried to get in contact with them to find out more about their ECU but I've had absolutely no success. Evidently they don't want my business for some reason or just don't like responding to e-mails and voicemails - whatever. Since you seem experienced with their products - what does their modified ECU actually do? Would this be something that you'd recommend for me? I'm not interested in getting bigger injectors or a bigger pump at this point (although I probably will get the Boost-a-Pump), but I would like the Runner to run faster and still maintain reliability....