CTB

Just to be clear, 2nd Gen's have ADD hubs on the front too. CV angle is also an issue with 2nd Gen's.

Mad Chemist

Sorry- I should have been more clear- with the third gens, the automatic disconnecting differential results in the machinery turning all the time, unlike 2nd gens, which only turns when in four wheel drive. The result is that the CV's get worn out much much faster at bad CV angles than a 2nd gen, at least thats my understanding anyways

Robinhood150

No, the 2nd gens have the same ADD system as the 3rd gens, tacomas, and tundras. I believe the only difference is the spline count of the hubs, that's why 3rd gens and tacos can't just slap on warn or aisin manual hubs.

My theory, and this is only a theory, is that the 2nd gen diffs are already dropped, since they have more ground clearance. I haven't looked to see though, but I would assume this is the reason nobody makes a diff drop kit like the one for the 3rd gens.

Mad Chemist

Hmmm, I was pretty sure there is another difference, I know it explained it well in the Downey catalogue. I remember being offended by the comment "leave 3rd gen 4-runners for highway off-roaders." I'll do my homework tonight and get back to ya.

Robinhood150

Here's something to read: http://4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/add/

Robinhood150

Ok guys, I took some pictures to show you how much the axle will shift to the passenger side if the pan hard rod is not centered. Note, this does not mean a 4" lift, or a 2" lift, etc, but rather, how far off from horizontal the panhard rod is. The reason for this is because, right now, nobody knows what the panhard looks like when it came from the factory. I'm assuming the panhard is horizontal from the factory.

The first pic shows a 4 inch offset:


The second pic shows a 2 inch offset:


The third pic shows the panhard centered:


Obviously this is only approximate. I still haven't measured how long the panhard actually is, so I estimated it at 3 feet.

Steve

Mad Chemist

Steve,

Thanks for the pics. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on the amount of shift in the axle- most of us know the ol' pythagorean theorem. Regardless, there is a shift, and it is only going to get more exaggerated as the shocks/springs extend the axle away from the body when going over bumps, whether its on streets or offroading. Its not a linear relationship- small increases in the distance of the axle will eventually translate into very big differences in the axle shift. For example, if the axle is moved 10 inches away from the stock position (ie. a 3 inch lift, and 7 inches of extension), the difference will be about an 1 1/4."
Will this affect handling and/or put any stress on any parts? I don't have a clue- so, I'd rather just spend a little money and not have to worry about it. This is not the first, nor last time that someone is going to argue about the merits of the panhard drop, so lets just agree to disagree on this one.

Its Friday

-David

CTB

Seriously, if you guys are that worried about it, get in touch with Steve and see if is still willing to make some drop brackets for y'all. He will be able to tell you everything you want to know about it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, so sorry if I come off that way, but most of us don't see this as a very severe problem. Just like Adrian said, he hasn't noticed any differences during his different phases of lifting. So, choose what you think will be best, and go with it. It will all be OK!!!

Mad Chemist

I got a bracket from Steve last week, and will install once I've got the parts for my lift put together. Have a great day guys.

rabidbeaverbaby

my 2nd gen is pretty much riding on the rear bump stops all the time and my panhard bar is a little higher on the passenger side...less than an inch but still noticable with the naked eye

Robinhood150

Cool. Sorry, I didn't mean to come off rough. I think a lot of people are jumping on the panhard bandwagon without thinking it through logically. Personally, I don't think a panhard drop is necessary for a 1.5inch lift. A lot of people are saying their axles are sticking out 0.5 inch and I contend that it came from the factory like that (or really close to that). If safety is a concern, I think there are a lot more important things to fix, like properly inflated tires, keeping the center of gravity low, etc.... I think the diminishing returns of a panhard drop of 1.5 inches is too great.

Again, my apologies for coming off rough, I just want everybody to think about why they are doing certain mods.

Steve

Denk

I do believe that the whole panhard issue has been discussed to death. There are those who think it's not needed and those who think it is. I think we have found the info everybody was lookin fer. Steve may be able to fab up some more, or pro-comp also sells them. There are also places with adjustable panhard rodds, which I am stiil looking in too and will have an update for you once in. Thanks to everybody for all all the help. it seems that there are a lot of you knowlegdeable types out there and I for one am glad yer willing to help. Thanks again.

Flygtenstein

Agreeing to disagree is a logical impossibility. In the face equal reliability, one who continues to hold their position must have a reason for doing so. I will send the references later...

Thanks for the pics Steve, you are an engineer by trade?

No one has touched the biggest reason for doing this. A proper panhard will keep the driveshaft out of the gas tank with longer than stock shocks, or at least it will help keep it out.

I am not trying to be a smart alleck, but as Steve said, if you sole concern is safety, there are a ton of better things to take a look at.

Additionally, the movement is likely not linear, but what the pics show is that it is negligible over the length of the rod, especially with stock length shocks.

Too bad Schaefer has not gotten on this thread, his opinion is the only one people seem to listen to on this...

Denk

-

AgRunner06

For anyone who is interested.

I was just at one of those po-dunk used car dealerships. They happened to have three 2nd gen 4runners. Two of them were 4WD. None of them have had the back end lifted yet.

Upon looking underneath, the panhard rod was indeed sitting with the right side an inch or two higher than the left. The rearend was also off to the right just a hair.

So in conclusion, between my 4runner, rabidbeaverbaby's 4runner, and the 3 other 4runners I looked at today, all the panhard rods were noticeably higher on the right side. I would say they came from the factory that way.

The mystery is solved.

I hope this is helpful.

cool rob

Funny this topic came up again today because my bracket finally arrived after being ordered a week ago from my local off-road center. Cost: FREE!!!(I'm a regular customer) Hardware included. I took it to have it installed at a friend's shop and it didn't fit! It was too wide to slip into that triangular slot the panhard rod is attached to (pass. side). I should mention the bracket was obviously handmade (manufacturer unknown- supposedly Downey); I guess these brackets aren't mass-produced. Anyway, the mechanic had a hell of a time reintalling the panhard rod to it's original position (without the bracket) because of the severe angle created by my truck's lift. Once and for all:
Will any damage occur to my vehicle if I just leave it like it is(I do not go off-road- daily driver only)?

Hawaiian4R

I sure wish that I looked at it before I put in my Downey HD springs to see if it was level or not. But mine is about 2 inches higher on the passenger side.