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New Suspension Setup - TRD Front Lift for a 3rd Gen 4Runner!
08-11-2005 | 07:37 PM
#581
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Originally Posted by bamachem
Valkyrie610 (Chris) on yotatech and tacomaterritory is the owner/operator of toyotapartsales.com. He currently has the lowest prices ANYWHERE for the Tundra Coils and the OME N91s struts.
The coils are $84.52 each from him - cheaper than ANYBODY.
He has the OME N91s struts for $185.28 + shipping compared to $219 + shipping at wheelers!
He's also in the works of getting some studs sourced like wheeler's did and then he would stock my spacers so that he could offer the TRD lift as a bolt-on package with a tacoma top plate!
Make sure to give this guy your business when you shop for parts - he's got great customer service and will match prices that you find anywhere else...
I've loaded all my dive gear in the truck and pretty happy with the results. No noticeable degradation in handling compared to the stock coils and struts. I can feel the road much better, though. I am really happy with the setup. Thanks for all the input.
08-12-2005 | 04:27 AM
#584
Certainly it won't "lock" as well as initially if you take it on/off 150 times a day, but I imagine as many times as you remove it...it should be fine. The reason I used a nylock nut on top is that everytime I had to take them off I had to use pliers to get the wingnut off anyway, so if I was going to have to use a tool, why not just get another nylock nut instead of a wingnut. I think everything will be fine as a nylock nut will be more secure than a wingnut IMO regardless.
08-12-2005 | 04:44 AM
#585
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
yeah, brian and i discussed that issue and both came to the conclusion (ok, he persuaded me) that you might as well have a nylock on there so at least you can get a socket on it. my wing nuts will bind if i'm not parked on a perfectly flat grade, so a pair of pliers was a necessity to get them off anyway.
08-14-2005 | 12:53 PM
#586
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Roger on the nylock. I installed them yesterday and when I inspected the old links, the left one is bent for some odd reason. I inspected the stock sway bar and the left one seems a little bent towards the right so that when I installed the discos, the left one is leaning so slightly to the right instead of both of them leaning out. I got my 4Runner brand new and I had one accident where a crown victoria hit my right rear side. Scratched the right wheel and damaged the right rear door. THe frame was tested and it was not bent. Could this be the reason?
Also, Brian, I didn't use your washers. I used the stock concave washers that came with the link assy. I had to slightly widen the center hole with a dremel to fit your disco bar. When I installed it, the sway arm is parallel to the ground. Oh, I changed the old bushings with new oem bushings.
How hard should I compress the rubber bushings? The manual says 51 ft lbs torqu and the bottom connection 41 ftlbs.
One more question. If I go wheeling and disconnect the sway bar, what do I do with the sway bar? Just let it hang?
Thanks
Also, Brian, I didn't use your washers. I used the stock concave washers that came with the link assy. I had to slightly widen the center hole with a dremel to fit your disco bar. When I installed it, the sway arm is parallel to the ground. Oh, I changed the old bushings with new oem bushings.
How hard should I compress the rubber bushings? The manual says 51 ft lbs torqu and the bottom connection 41 ftlbs.
One more question. If I go wheeling and disconnect the sway bar, what do I do with the sway bar? Just let it hang?
Thanks
08-14-2005 | 01:07 PM
#587
Originally Posted by francr
Roger on the nylock. I installed them yesterday and when I inspected the old links, the left one is bent for some odd reason. I inspected the stock sway bar and the left one seems a little bent towards the right so that when I installed the discos, the left one is leaning so slightly to the right instead of both of them leaning out. I got my 4Runner brand new and I had one accident where a crown victoria hit my right rear side. Scratched the right wheel and damaged the right rear door. THe frame was tested and it was not bent. Could this be the reason?
Originally Posted by francr
Also, Brian, I didn't use your washers. I used the stock concave washers that came with the link assy. I had to slightly widen the center hole with a dremel to fit your disco bar. When I installed it, the sway arm is parallel to the ground. Oh, I changed the old bushings with new oem bushings.
Originally Posted by francr
How hard should I compress the rubber bushings? The manual says 51 ft lbs torqu and the bottom connection 41 ftlbs.
Originally Posted by francr
One more question. If I go wheeling and disconnect the sway bar, what do I do with the sway bar? Just let it hang?
Anymore questions just hit me up via email or on my quick disconnect thread in the Vendor section so we don't hi-jack this one anymore than we already have.
08-19-2005 | 06:37 AM
#588
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
recent discussions on tacomaterritory have questioned the numbers that steve schaefer and i have for the TRD Tundra and TRD Tacoma spring rates. here's part of the discussion:
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...425#post158425
here's my solution as posted in the thread above:
check out the BOLD sections in your posts above and i think you might find the answer...
the NON-TRD coils are stiffer at the OME coils. how do i know? I ran them on my 4Runner a long time ago. I had 2WD V8, NON TRD Tundra coils and they sucked ass. the NWOR coils that you reported as stiff may have felt that way cause the lower spring rate was too low and was completely "used up" with just supporting the taco - that would explain the STIFF ride fully. also, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, the upper section of the TRD springs are MUCH softer than the lower section. we also know that the upper section is softer than the NON TRD versions due to the vast difference in ON-STREET rides. NWOR's difference in the progressive rates was 50%. if TRD used as little as 20% and the 520 #/in number you stated is indeed correct, then the upper portion would be in the 420#/in range - EXACTLY where my number that I have puts it. That's only w/ a 20% difference from the "soft" section to the "stiff" section. Think about that while I do some math...
you like HOE's right? well, according to: Donahoe Racing
now, there are two arguable values for the Tacoma Coil Spring Rates. They have been reported by some to be in the 420#/in for the TRD soft section of the coil (the part that's used ON-ROAD) and according to Downey, they NON-TRD coils are 480#/in. I'm not disputing that rate at all for the NON-TRD coils or the 600#/in rate for the NON TRD Tundra coils. We aren't talking about those coils however, so those numbers aren't really valid in this case except for "seat of the pants" comparisons only. I'll cover both of those rates in my math, however:
Known:
Taco Spring Rate = 420 #/in (assumed to be correct for this illustrtation)
hoes = 1.15*(Tundra Spring Rate) = 1.30*(Tacoma Spring Rate)
Unknown:
Tundra Spring Rate = X
so, time for some Algebra:
1.15*X = 1.30*(420)
X = (1.30 * 420) / 1.15
X = 475 #/in
and if the Tacoma Spring Rate is actually 480 #/in, then:
1.15*X = 1.30*(480)
X = (1.30 * 480) / 1.15
X = 542 #/in
BUT, this isn't the spring rate for the TRD taco coils, as you and I agree.
We take it as gospel that that OME coils are indeed 500 #/in, and I agree. I've had the OME 882's up front w/ OME N91s struts and the same bumper, winch, etc. The 822's (that I had) felt stiff as hell - no joke - and I felt every bump in the road. They were linear spring rates and therefore the feel didn't change under minor or severe compression or at any speeds. The TRD coils are Progressive - everybody will agree to that.
I think the difference in numbers that we're getting is the difference in the upper and lower spring rates for the progressive coils as I stated above. It makes sense once you think about it. The lower rate for tacos is prob the lighter section of the spring and the higher number is the stiffer section. I already showed that w/ your lower section number of 520 #/in, my number of 420 #/in for the upper section happens to be exactly a 20% difference in the rates - not a coincidence if you ask me.
About the only way that I'm EVER going to prove EXACTLY what the spring rate is in my 4Runner w/ the TRD setup is to measure it. I'll take some accurate (to w/in 5# easily) bathroom scales w/ me to Tellico on the Fall colors run that's Sept 16th-18th. I'll weigh a few people and then measure the deflection of the 4Runner as they stand on the front ARB. I'll get several people on there (600-800# and take measurements for each person) and use the total weight and the total inflection to get the combined spring rate for the front two springs as an average. Once I know that, all I do is divide by 2 to get the individual spring rate. If I get several people in the 200# range, then the deflection should be close to 1"-2" (assuming that the rate is somewhere between 450#/in and 600#/in) and since it can be measured to the nearest 64th of an inch, that would yeild an approximate accuracy of +/- 10#/in (actually it would be +/- 7.8#/in so I rounded up).
That should settle this once and for all. Hopefully we can do it w/ someone w/ OME's and maybe if someone w/ stock Taco coils will show up we can do it on it too.
FAIR?
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...425#post158425
here's my solution as posted in the thread above:
Originally Posted by hytenor
Let's try quoting a little more of that post or at least the part that states that Downey's Tundra replacement coils used in their coilovers are 800#. The v8 Tundra coils (NON-TRD) are 600s based on info from the spring company that tested them for Downey (call Downey, get the spring company's name/number; it's not hard). v6 Taco coils (NON TRD) are 480 as tested by the same company. The lower portion of the TRD Taco coils are 520 but I don't know what the upper, 'progressive' portion is. NWOR's pr coils are 600/300 and are stiff as hell.
I don't know where you guys get your 475 number from but that is bs for sure. Perhaps the v6 2wd coils are that rating but not the v8s, sorry.
Until I see test figures that differ I'll stick with what I have come up with.
As for Taco owners trying Tundra springs, many have stated that they ride very stiff especially w/o some extra weight on the nose like a winch or winch/bumper.
We can go round and round on this subject but the facts are that the Tundra coils listed by you seem to work great on Runners but do not seem to work as well on Tacomas. I would argue that said coils with either OE tundra shocks or OMEs should do fine on v6 Dcabs with their slightly heavier front ends but the rear sus would need to be balanced to it to produce optimum results...ie, new (softer valved) shocks and possibly leaf springs.
Rick makes a good point about the drastic difference in the rear suspensions between the Runners and Tacomas. If all you do is swap out the front suspension w/o doing the equivalent to the rear the suspension is unbalance and will not ride well, period. I do know from experience that changing the rear shocks from a stiff valving like the Bilstein 5100 (255/70) to a ligher 5125 or 5150 with 170/60 valving makes a huge difference in overall ride/handling...and I do mean drastic.
Perhaps Runners have a much softer rear suspension than what you see on the average modded Tacoma on this forum (since 5100s seem to be the shock of choice around here).
I don't know where you guys get your 475 number from but that is bs for sure. Perhaps the v6 2wd coils are that rating but not the v8s, sorry.
Until I see test figures that differ I'll stick with what I have come up with.
As for Taco owners trying Tundra springs, many have stated that they ride very stiff especially w/o some extra weight on the nose like a winch or winch/bumper.
We can go round and round on this subject but the facts are that the Tundra coils listed by you seem to work great on Runners but do not seem to work as well on Tacomas. I would argue that said coils with either OE tundra shocks or OMEs should do fine on v6 Dcabs with their slightly heavier front ends but the rear sus would need to be balanced to it to produce optimum results...ie, new (softer valved) shocks and possibly leaf springs.
Rick makes a good point about the drastic difference in the rear suspensions between the Runners and Tacomas. If all you do is swap out the front suspension w/o doing the equivalent to the rear the suspension is unbalance and will not ride well, period. I do know from experience that changing the rear shocks from a stiff valving like the Bilstein 5100 (255/70) to a ligher 5125 or 5150 with 170/60 valving makes a huge difference in overall ride/handling...and I do mean drastic.
Perhaps Runners have a much softer rear suspension than what you see on the average modded Tacoma on this forum (since 5100s seem to be the shock of choice around here).
Originally Posted by hytenor
I know for a fact that all the OME coils, 880-882, are 500# and the Tundra v8 non-TRDs are 600s (figures directly from ARB and the spring Co. that tested springs and manufactures them for Downey). If the 2wd TRDs are lighter then that might explain the difference you Runner guys are coming up with as far as ride goes. But, understand the progressive rate coil; they will have two different rates with the top section being much lower than the bottom section.
the NON-TRD coils are stiffer at the OME coils. how do i know? I ran them on my 4Runner a long time ago. I had 2WD V8, NON TRD Tundra coils and they sucked ass. the NWOR coils that you reported as stiff may have felt that way cause the lower spring rate was too low and was completely "used up" with just supporting the taco - that would explain the STIFF ride fully. also, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, the upper section of the TRD springs are MUCH softer than the lower section. we also know that the upper section is softer than the NON TRD versions due to the vast difference in ON-STREET rides. NWOR's difference in the progressive rates was 50%. if TRD used as little as 20% and the 520 #/in number you stated is indeed correct, then the upper portion would be in the 420#/in range - EXACTLY where my number that I have puts it. That's only w/ a 20% difference from the "soft" section to the "stiff" section. Think about that while I do some math...
you like HOE's right? well, according to: Donahoe Racing
Originally Posted by donahoe racing
If you want the best ride, this is the ticket. Donahoe Racing spent several months developing valving and spring rates for the perfect Toyota shock. This front suspension system features a 2.5" diameter nitrogen-charged race style coil-over front shock. The spring gives you a 15% increase in spring rate on a Tundra and 30% increase on a Tacoma. The system also allows for an additional 0"-3" lift to provide increased performance and clearance of larger tires.
Known:
Taco Spring Rate = 420 #/in (assumed to be correct for this illustrtation)
hoes = 1.15*(Tundra Spring Rate) = 1.30*(Tacoma Spring Rate)
Unknown:
Tundra Spring Rate = X
so, time for some Algebra:
1.15*X = 1.30*(420)
X = (1.30 * 420) / 1.15
X = 475 #/in
and if the Tacoma Spring Rate is actually 480 #/in, then:
1.15*X = 1.30*(480)
X = (1.30 * 480) / 1.15
X = 542 #/in
BUT, this isn't the spring rate for the TRD taco coils, as you and I agree.
We take it as gospel that that OME coils are indeed 500 #/in, and I agree. I've had the OME 882's up front w/ OME N91s struts and the same bumper, winch, etc. The 822's (that I had) felt stiff as hell - no joke - and I felt every bump in the road. They were linear spring rates and therefore the feel didn't change under minor or severe compression or at any speeds. The TRD coils are Progressive - everybody will agree to that.
I think the difference in numbers that we're getting is the difference in the upper and lower spring rates for the progressive coils as I stated above. It makes sense once you think about it. The lower rate for tacos is prob the lighter section of the spring and the higher number is the stiffer section. I already showed that w/ your lower section number of 520 #/in, my number of 420 #/in for the upper section happens to be exactly a 20% difference in the rates - not a coincidence if you ask me.
About the only way that I'm EVER going to prove EXACTLY what the spring rate is in my 4Runner w/ the TRD setup is to measure it. I'll take some accurate (to w/in 5# easily) bathroom scales w/ me to Tellico on the Fall colors run that's Sept 16th-18th. I'll weigh a few people and then measure the deflection of the 4Runner as they stand on the front ARB. I'll get several people on there (600-800# and take measurements for each person) and use the total weight and the total inflection to get the combined spring rate for the front two springs as an average. Once I know that, all I do is divide by 2 to get the individual spring rate. If I get several people in the 200# range, then the deflection should be close to 1"-2" (assuming that the rate is somewhere between 450#/in and 600#/in) and since it can be measured to the nearest 64th of an inch, that would yeild an approximate accuracy of +/- 10#/in (actually it would be +/- 7.8#/in so I rounded up).
That should settle this once and for all. Hopefully we can do it w/ someone w/ OME's and maybe if someone w/ stock Taco coils will show up we can do it on it too.
FAIR?
08-21-2005 | 07:15 PM
#590
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
www.toyotapartsales.com for the tundra coils
www.4x4connection.com or www.wheelersoffroad.com for the OME parts
www.4x4connection.com or www.wheelersoffroad.com for the OME parts
08-21-2005 | 07:22 PM
#591
Contributing Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
Hate to brag, but we have always been less expensive than either of those guys for OME parts... 
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...08&postcount=1
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...08&postcount=1
08-22-2005 | 07:54 AM
#592
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by valkyrie610
Hate to brag, but we have always been less expensive than either of those guys for OME parts...
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...08&postcount=1
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...08&postcount=1
Also, I have another 32 pairs of spacers on order. Unfortunately, the CNC shop that cuts them have increased their rates slightly along w/ a slight material increase. Therefore, my pricing has to go up just a tad. I'm absorbing some of the costs as well.
The new pricing is $40 for one pair SHIPPED via USPS Priority Mail and $75 for two pair - shipped also via Priority Mail.
I have a new page w/ Paypal direct links to buy them at : http://4rnr.net/suspension
Last edited by bamachem; 08-22-2005 at 06:44 PM.
08-22-2005 | 04:19 PM
#593
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,697
Likes: 0
From: Deep Gap, NC
Originally Posted by bamachem
Now doubt the best prices around for OME parts and TRD Tundra Coils!
Also, I have another 32 pairs of spacers on order. Unfortunately, the CNC shop that cuts them have increased their rates slightly along w/ a slight material increase. Therefore, my pricing has to go up just a tad. I'm absorbing some of the costs as well.
The new pricing is $40 for one pair SHIPPED via USPS Priority Mail and $75 for two pair - shipped also via Priority Mail.
I have a new page w/ Paypal direct links to buy them at : http://4rnr.net/suspension
Also, I have another 32 pairs of spacers on order. Unfortunately, the CNC shop that cuts them have increased their rates slightly along w/ a slight material increase. Therefore, my pricing has to go up just a tad. I'm absorbing some of the costs as well.
The new pricing is $40 for one pair SHIPPED via USPS Priority Mail and $75 for two pair - shipped also via Priority Mail.
I have a new page w/ Paypal direct links to buy them at : http://4rnr.net/suspension
Chris
08-22-2005 | 06:45 PM
#594
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by ravencr
Andy, did you ever run stock 4runner coils with the Cornfed spacer and 3/8 top out spacer to compare?
Chris
Chris
Last edited by bamachem; 08-23-2005 at 04:58 AM.
08-23-2005 | 06:04 AM
#600
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,697
Likes: 0
From: Deep Gap, NC
Not much to tell, other than Steve named be Banjo I guess because I'm a redneck from the hills of East TN, my mods make him laugh, the wording of some of my threads really make him laugh, etc. It is all in fun, and I'd be worried if he hadn't harrassed about me about my "New Cheaper Plan" over 40 times in one weekend. That was the running joke of the weekend!
Steve, does that accurately sum up the reason I was named "Banjo"?
Chris
Steve, does that accurately sum up the reason I was named "Banjo"?
Chris
