Land Rover salesman's smug smirk wiped off via 02 4Runner ;o)
#61
Contributing Member
But about the full-time 4WD. That is what toyota called the 4x4 on my truck. with just the 4wd button pressed they called it full-time 4WD as you could drive it on road. AWD is the type that is on all the time if i remember right. Full-tim can be used just that, full-time if wanted.
As i have said, i know 4wd drive just about backwards it is how toyota uses it on models other than mine that i don't know.
#62
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ha... well, for a little car? Yeah. That's a challenge. I'm pretty sure that many of the Land Rover courses are the same design-wise so it would be interesting. Going up in rear wheel drive like that, I really do not think that would be possible, no.
#63
Contributing Member
iTrader: (1)
But about the full-time 4WD. That is what toyota called the 4x4 on my truck. with just the 4wd button pressed they called it full-time 4WD as you could drive it on road. AWD is the type that is on all the time if i remember right. Full-tim can be used just that, full-time if wanted.
AWD is a different animal usually found on many luxury cars. I'll be the first to admit I do not know that much about AWD setups, but the 4WD 4HI on my previous '86 4Runner would not allow the truck to go fast at all. I had to manually move the shifter into position too, unlike the push button style I have now. Yes it could be driven on the street if you had to, but I never did. It was a more of a true 4WD 4HI meant for rough surfaces. I believe we tend to refer to the 4WD setup on the newer 3rd gens w/ the push button on the shifter as AWD, b/c the button can be depressed on the fly (under 60mph) and the vehicle can even be driven on the street w/o really any noticeable
difference that the vehicle is actually in 4WD 4HI compared to driving the same vehicle in 2WD. The vehicle still has pretty much the same road manners in either mode.
To me, the 4WD 4HI found on my current 4Runner is a "watered-down" version compared to the same 4WD system found on my '86. I tend to refer to this push button style as AWD b/c the road manners of the vehicle are not that noticeable when it's engaged. Has more of a 2wd feel to it.
If anyone else can explain this better, please do.
#64
Contributing Member
iTrader: (1)
Okay, what Godzilla said about the different shifters makes sense now. I went back and looked at the pictures RoySharif posted (thanks Roy that helps clear up this some more) of his 4wd shifter on the 2pg of this thread.
Here's 2 pics I took of mine to show the differences:
Okay, I think we are all starting to get on the same page here
Here's 2 pics I took of mine to show the differences:
Okay, I think we are all starting to get on the same page here
#65
Contributing Member
iTrader: (1)
Thanks for the pics. It gave me newer insight into North Am 4Runners.
I've always thought that all models with multi-mode 4WD had the U-shaped diagram on the transfer lever where you get to choose H2, H4, H4L (center diff locked), N, and L4L (center diff locked).
Since there's a separate CDL switch on the dash what is the 4WD button on the transfer lever for?
Thanks.
I've always thought that all models with multi-mode 4WD had the U-shaped diagram on the transfer lever where you get to choose H2, H4, H4L (center diff locked), N, and L4L (center diff locked).
Since there's a separate CDL switch on the dash what is the 4WD button on the transfer lever for?
Thanks.
#67
Contributing Member
iTrader: (1)
Thanks for the pics. It gave me newer insight into North Am 4Runners.
I've always thought that all models with multi-mode 4WD had the U-shaped diagram on the transfer lever where you get to choose H2, H4, H4L (center diff locked), N, and L4L (center diff locked).
Since there's a separate CDL switch on the dash what is the 4WD button on the transfer lever for?
Thanks.
I've always thought that all models with multi-mode 4WD had the U-shaped diagram on the transfer lever where you get to choose H2, H4, H4L (center diff locked), N, and L4L (center diff locked).
Since there's a separate CDL switch on the dash what is the 4WD button on the transfer lever for?
Thanks.
Edit: Oh and to get to 4L, the 4wd button is to stay activated. You do not deactivate it to shift the transfer lever to 4L.
To get to 4L, you must park the vehicle and shift the transmission to Netural. Then you can shift the transfer lever to "N" and then on to "L4", thus giving you low range. To get even more traction, you can depress the button on the dash to disable VSC and lock the center diff.
Hope that helps
Last edited by Rock Slide; 07-19-2007 at 06:42 AM. Reason: forgot something
#68
Contributing Member
Thanks for the pics. It gave me newer insight into North Am 4Runners.
I've always thought that all models with multi-mode 4WD had the U-shaped diagram on the transfer lever where you get to choose H2, H4, H4L (center diff locked), N, and L4L (center diff locked).
Since there's a separate CDL switch on the dash what is the 4WD button on the transfer lever for?
Thanks.
I've always thought that all models with multi-mode 4WD had the U-shaped diagram on the transfer lever where you get to choose H2, H4, H4L (center diff locked), N, and L4L (center diff locked).
Since there's a separate CDL switch on the dash what is the 4WD button on the transfer lever for?
Thanks.
Okay, what Godzilla said about the different shifters makes sense now. I went back and looked at the pictures RoySharif posted (thanks Roy that helps clear up this some more) of his 4wd shifter on the 2pg of this thread.
Here's 2 pics I took of mine to show the differences:
Okay, I think we are all starting to get on the same page here
Here's 2 pics I took of mine to show the differences:
Okay, I think we are all starting to get on the same page here
With the truck in standard 2wd mode, the transfer lever should be in the "H" postion...which in turn, the vehicle is in 2H. To activate 4H, you must depress the button on the side of the shifter. This can be done at speeds under 60mph. Once this button is depressed, the vehicle is now in 4H. There is no 4HL, so even the 4H that we have feels more like a "watered-down" version of 4H, thus the reason we refer to it as AWD.
Edit: Oh and to get to 4L, the 4wd button is to stay activated. You do not deactivate it to shift the transfer lever to 4L.
To get to 4L, you must park the vehicle and shift the transmission to Natural. Then you can shift the transfer lever to "N" and then on to "L4", thus giving you low range. To get even more traction, you can depress the button on the dash to disable VSC and lock the center diff.
Hope that helps
Edit: Oh and to get to 4L, the 4wd button is to stay activated. You do not deactivate it to shift the transfer lever to 4L.
To get to 4L, you must park the vehicle and shift the transmission to Natural. Then you can shift the transfer lever to "N" and then on to "L4", thus giving you low range. To get even more traction, you can depress the button on the dash to disable VSC and lock the center diff.
Hope that helps
But here is a run down of the different 4WD systems:
First part-time (PT from now on) PT only be used PT due to it having a locked center diff that will bind on road. This is better for offloading but will ruin quick on a hard surface. thus can only be used "Part-time"
Full-Time 4WD (now FT): FT can be used both on and off road fine as it has an unlocked center diff. Now a lot of truck/cars can't lock the center so we are lucky we can in the yotas. they just have it on full-time with a selector for 2WD for better gas mileage.
All-Wheel drive: AWD is very close to Full-time, they are actually inter-used sometimes. generally AWD can't be disengaged can never have the center locked and is junk for off-roading as all the power (without help from traction control systems) will go to 1 tire if it will slip. But most of these cars come with Traction control so they actually do pretty good. Subaru uses AWD in there cars.
Basically the different between full-time and AWD from what I can remember is that full-time is 2WD by default that can use 4WD all the time if wanted. Where AWD is 4WD be default and usually can?t go 2WD.
#69
Contributing Member
iTrader: (1)
And yes the setup I have is what all '01-'02 4Runners have. No "U" selector on these 2 years.
I can look around the web to find something that will settle this but i am %99 sure i am "right" (although we are almost in agreement).
But here is a run down of the different 4WD systems:
First part-time (PT from now on) PT only be used PT due to it having a locked center diff that will bind on road. This is better for offloading but will ruin quick on a hard surface. thus can only be used "Part-time"
Full-Time 4WD (now FT): FT can be used both on and off road fine as it has an unlocked center diff. Now a lot of truck/cars can't lock the center so we are lucky we can in the yotas. they just have it on full-time with a selector for 2WD for better gas mileage.
All-Wheel drive: AWD is very close to Full-time, they are actually inter-used sometimes. generally AWD can't be disengaged can never have the center locked and is junk for off-roading as all the power (without help from traction control systems) will go to 1 tire if it will slip. But most of these cars come with Traction control so they actually do pretty good. Subaru uses AWD in there cars.
Basically the different between full-time and AWD from what I can remember is that full-time is 2WD by default that can use 4WD all the time if wanted. Where AWD is 4WD be default and usually can?t go 2WD.
But here is a run down of the different 4WD systems:
First part-time (PT from now on) PT only be used PT due to it having a locked center diff that will bind on road. This is better for offloading but will ruin quick on a hard surface. thus can only be used "Part-time"
Full-Time 4WD (now FT): FT can be used both on and off road fine as it has an unlocked center diff. Now a lot of truck/cars can't lock the center so we are lucky we can in the yotas. they just have it on full-time with a selector for 2WD for better gas mileage.
All-Wheel drive: AWD is very close to Full-time, they are actually inter-used sometimes. generally AWD can't be disengaged can never have the center locked and is junk for off-roading as all the power (without help from traction control systems) will go to 1 tire if it will slip. But most of these cars come with Traction control so they actually do pretty good. Subaru uses AWD in there cars.
Basically the different between full-time and AWD from what I can remember is that full-time is 2WD by default that can use 4WD all the time if wanted. Where AWD is 4WD be default and usually can?t go 2WD.
I think we are in agreement. I know I refer to (and so do others) the 4H in the 01-02 4Runners as AWD. To be correct, it's not really AWD, but to so many of us that have these year 4Runners, it just feels, and I'll say it again, like a watered-down version of a true 4H, thus we refer to it as AWD...even though it's not really.
Oh and I know I have been saying that you can select to lock the center diff in 4L, but you can also lock it in 4H too in the 01-02 4Runners. Did not want you all to think you could only lock the center diff in 4L.
Last edited by Rock Slide; 07-19-2007 at 09:08 AM. Reason: can't spell
#70
Contributing Member
I knew we were getting close to all being on the same page . (I realize I did not know unit recently you all w/ the push button transfer lever also had the U style shifter). I thought all shifters w/ the push button were like mine.
And yes the setup I have is what all '01-'02 4Runners have. No "U" selector on these 2 years.
And yes the setup I have is what all '01-'02 4Runners have. No "U" selector on these 2 years.
LOL, see we were both to narrow minded to think that there might be a differnt styl 4WD selector on the other one truck!
Well we got that seteled.
I think we are in agreement. I know I refer to (and so do others) the 4H in the 01-02 4Runners as AWD. To be correct, it's not really AWD, but to so many of us that have these year 4Runners, it just feels, and I'll say it again, like a watered-down version of a true 4H, thus we refer to it as AWD...even though it's not really.
Oh and I know I have been saying that you can select to lock the center diff in 4L, but you can also lock it in 4H too in the 01-02 4Runners. Did not want you all to think you could only lock the center diff in 4L.
Oh and I know I have been saying that you can select to lock the center diff in 4L, but you can also lock it in 4H too in the 01-02 4Runners. Did not want you all to think you could only lock the center diff in 4L.
#71
Registered User
haha, l love watching the learning. good job on the teamwork. For me i love my 99 4wd system. I have my 2WD for the day to day roads. On intermixed days like a bunch of snow on one street and none on the other depending on the plow i can run AWD(4H) all day long. Or even on winding roads with many hills I notice a huge difference in handling from 2WD to AWD(4H). Also I can drive up to 100km/h in this mode. When i hit the trails I have the 4Hlow and life is easy. When it goes from bad to worse i have 4Low and of course the sweetness of the rear locker. Man i love this f-in truck
#72
Contributing Member
iTrader: (1)
Wahoo!
You're right, we were thinking across the same line, just different pages
No need to keep this thread alive over this debate anymore. Glad we got it covered though...sounds like we both learned something.
haha, l love watching the learning. good job on the teamwork. For me i love my 99 4wd system. I have my 2WD for the day to day roads. On intermixed days like a bunch of snow on one street and none on the other depending on the plow i can run AWD(4H) all day long. Or even on winding roads with many hills I notice a huge difference in handling from 2WD to AWD(4H). Also I can drive up to 100km/h in this mode. When i hit the trails I have the 4Hlow and life is easy. When it goes from bad to worse i have 4Low and of course the sweetness of the rear locker. Man i love this f-in truck
I have to agree, in my book the '99-'00 has to be the best 4wd system offered from toyota (in addition to the factory e-locker option) bar none.
#73
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Feeeeeeelings?
It's called 4H. Call it what it is not what it feels like.
That's the problem with the world today. I have to think about how others feel before I do or say anthing instead of just calling it like it is.
#74
Registered User
yes at the end of the day it still is 4H and 4Hlow and not AWD
AWD is usually reserved for vehicles that have full time 4wd and cannot lock the centre differential, 4wd vehicles are those that are in the 2wd mode and can be put into 4x4, being driven by the 4 wheels and centre locked., also you have the full time 4wd's that are always 4x4 with centre unlocked and then you lock them when needed. so really in the case of my 99 it is a 4wd vehicle with full time 4wd capabilites.
what really separates an awd from a 4wd is the availability of 4Lo. Many manufacturers have different systems nowadays which really blends alot of the systems together making the definitions more vague as technology in the drivetrain increases
AWD is usually reserved for vehicles that have full time 4wd and cannot lock the centre differential, 4wd vehicles are those that are in the 2wd mode and can be put into 4x4, being driven by the 4 wheels and centre locked., also you have the full time 4wd's that are always 4x4 with centre unlocked and then you lock them when needed. so really in the case of my 99 it is a 4wd vehicle with full time 4wd capabilites.
what really separates an awd from a 4wd is the availability of 4Lo. Many manufacturers have different systems nowadays which really blends alot of the systems together making the definitions more vague as technology in the drivetrain increases
Last edited by Godzilla; 07-19-2007 at 11:24 AM.
#75
Contributing Member
iTrader: (1)
Then why call it AWD? It confuses everyone and Toyota doesn't even advertise AWD for your make or use it as a 'catch phrase'. If it was AWD they would put stickers on your ride in big letters AWD
It's called 4H. Call it what it is not what it feels like.
That's the problem with the world today. I have to think about how others feel before I do or say anthing instead of just calling it like it is.
It's called 4H. Call it what it is not what it feels like.
That's the problem with the world today. I have to think about how others feel before I do or say anthing instead of just calling it like it is.
You are completely right.
From this day forth, I solemnly swear to refrain from referring to 4H on my 4Runner as AWD. It is 4H and should therefore be called that. It is what it is and not what I "feel" like it is.
#76
Registered User
yes it is a huge problem in the world today.
the vehicle (99 limited) has
-2wd
-H4 full time 4wd (4wd no centre locked)
-H4L 4wd (centre locked)
-4low
and when in "full-time" 4wd mode is pretty much the same thing as AWD, being a system powering the 4 wheels with no locked centre differential, the difference lying in the further, or lack of capabilities (4lo, locked centre) I too agree that the world is going to hell.
the vehicle (99 limited) has
-2wd
-H4 full time 4wd (4wd no centre locked)
-H4L 4wd (centre locked)
-4low
and when in "full-time" 4wd mode is pretty much the same thing as AWD, being a system powering the 4 wheels with no locked centre differential, the difference lying in the further, or lack of capabilities (4lo, locked centre) I too agree that the world is going to hell.
Last edited by Godzilla; 07-19-2007 at 11:40 AM.
#77
Registered User
Then why call it AWD? It confuses everyone and Toyota doesn't even advertise AWD for your make or use it as a 'catch phrase'. If it was AWD they would put stickers on your ride in big letters AWD
It's called 4H. Call it what it is not what it feels like.
That's the problem with the world today. I have to think about how others feel before I do or say anthing instead of just calling it like it is.
It's called 4H. Call it what it is not what it feels like.
That's the problem with the world today. I have to think about how others feel before I do or say anthing instead of just calling it like it is.
#78
Registered User
yes it is a huge problem in the world today.
the vehicle (99 limited) has
-2wd
-H4 full time 4wd (4wd no centre locked)
-H4L 4wd (centre locked)
-4low
and when in "full-time" 4wd mode is pretty much the same thing as AWD, being a system powering the 4 wheels with no locked centre differential, the difference lying in the further, or lack of capabilities (4lo, locked centre) I too agree that the world is going to hell.
the vehicle (99 limited) has
-2wd
-H4 full time 4wd (4wd no centre locked)
-H4L 4wd (centre locked)
-4low
and when in "full-time" 4wd mode is pretty much the same thing as AWD, being a system powering the 4 wheels with no locked centre differential, the difference lying in the further, or lack of capabilities (4lo, locked centre) I too agree that the world is going to hell.
and there is no difference between H4 full time 4wd and AWD... it's the SAME THING.
FJ80's are AWD, you can lock or unlock all diffs (front centre rear), and is selectable between low and high range.
Oh, and the ONLY difference between our 4wd in teh 99's, and teh 4wd in the first gen 4runners, is that we can pick Full time 4wd, aka AWD.... its just an add on to the original t-case.... i still dont know why all lots of you guys are getting worked up over the AWD thing, no one ever said full-time AWD, just that AWD is selectable, because in my books, 4Hi is centre-diff locked....
#79
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can you go 140MPH in your so called AWD aka 4Hi? More importantly can you go highway speeds?
I had a 2002 Subaru Ipreza WRX with AWD (It has the stickers to prove it) and I could go 140MPH without worrying about things binding.
I had a 2002 Subaru Ipreza WRX with AWD (It has the stickers to prove it) and I could go 140MPH without worrying about things binding.
#80
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The other problem is when people piss about something yet do it themselves. I see your sig is "98 4Runner Limited 4x4 " 4X4??? I thought all the 4Runners are labelled 4WD? am i wrong? 4X4 means a vehicle with 4 wheels powered by 4 wheels...which is the same a AWD or 4WD..hmmm
All I'm saying is that three pages of arguing occured over wether or not you have AWD or not and it has nothing to do with the original post.
On Topic:
Any luck with get some pictures of the course yet?