DravisAR

The only person I bashed we're the DNR guys, who years ago, told us that we were in an area we werent allowed to be in, and to leave immediately.

A call to the local DNR office, and I was informed that I was indeed allowed to drive through the area on roads that werent marked as off limits to motor vehicles.

Without naming anyone here, I will say, some of you are so quick to attack, dispute, or downright just be ignorant. I never said I saw a single sign stating that an area was off limits to 4x4 vehicles...and indeed there werent.

Nor have I expressed a cavalier attitude about our sport, and the importance of respecting property.

Sheesh. To those with a little more self control, thank you for posting.

94x4

'Nuff said!

WATRD

What is that pictures are going to tell you? Closed land doesn't look any different from opne land in a photograph.

The orginal poster seemed to think that the land was open because it was not signed and that is just not the case. That is as backward and self serving as it gets. That is just not how it works.

The plain fact that he's not sure who's land he's on should be prima facie evidence that he's not treading lightly.

94x4

The request for "pics" is really just to see what sort of trailage he's got available to him out there for the coolness factor, and he made a call to DNR to cover his a** and to see if he actually did infringe on anyone's property which, by his account, it appears that he did'nt.

Can't go down without a fight, hey Rob? But wrong is wrong and as intellectual as you tout yourself to be here on the site, surely you, if no one else here, could have figured out a better, less condescending way to pass along some FYI, now could'nt you?!

WATRD

Nice troll!

I don't believe I have ever touted myself as an intellectual on this or any other site, but I would certainly welcome your proving me wrong with a link instead of putting words in my mouth.

Read the thread again. It's not my job to sugar coat the truth or to cater to the lowest common denominator. Several folks tried to ˟˟˟˟˟ foot around the issue but it just wasn't soaking in.

My record on trail preservation and advocacy is well known. What have you done for our sport?

DudeBud

If I guess to where he was and get it right what do i win j/k. I do however have a good idea as to where he was.

WATRD

Based upon the threads on SNORT, so do I...

DravisAR

And last time I checked, that land wasn't off limits. At least not some parts of it. You have anything more to add, or just running a witch hunt for the hell of it? Up to this point Rob, I had quite a bit of respect for you as not only a local wheeler, but as someone with a little more restraint from attacks than the standard "I want to be hardcore" wheeling community, and I looked up to that.

As of right now, I feel I was sorely mistaken. I surely didnt mean to express some kind of attitude that our local areas should be disrespected, and I dont see where I did.

midiwall

Ummm, not in this case. His reference to having called the DNR was in a case "years ago".


I don't think there's a way to express information to DravisAR that he would actually listen to.

Rob has already pointed this out, but the guy's initial tone was clearly brash and uncaring about anything to preserve our playground:
hah. see the above quote from your initial post.

If you weren't sure "that the DNR patrols the area" and you don't want to say where you were, then you CLEARLY went out with the forethought that you MIGHT be running illegally.

Subsequent posts by you only backup your "care" for the situation...

WATRD

Every one of these statements by you is factually incorrect and expresses a cavalier attitude about keeping our trails open.

If that is not the impression you mean to be projecting, then I appologize, but I can only go by your writing since I have never seen you at an organized run, an ORV meeting, a clean up or any other event.

I have never had a problem with you before, so I was surprised by how hard you were pushing back on the valid points Mark was making.

I see nothing in your posts to indicate that you are a responsible wheeler who cares about keeping our trails open and a lot to indicate otherwise.

Do I have it wrong? Educate me please. I hate to get people wrong.

rocket

iTrader: (1)

Come on guys, give credit where its due. All these attacks are pure speculation. Lets get back on topic and stop the he said she said crap.

94x4

First off, I'm not trying to get into any sort of a pi**ing contest with you and only respond now because you asked me to.

That being the case... What I meant by the "intellectual" comment was in reference to your numerous posts on the Off Topic forum in the "Jesus is Lord!" and particularly, "Rather that(n) clutter up the "other" thread... ", wherein you quoted several noted "intellectuals" and even proferred some observations of your own, or was that merely you "...putting their words [into your] mouth." ?

And, o'kay, I'll admit that I was wrong. I guess that you can't "...figure out a better, less condecsending way to pass along some FYI", huh ?!

Lastly, hiding behind whatever laurels (as you were doing in the previously mentioned threads ???) that you may possess still does'nt make your handling of this issue any more justified and/or right.

What have I done ?!? I've picked up alot of trash, advocated the preservation of several "natural" areas with endangered species and/or wildlife, put out my fires two times over, clean up my messes no matter the extent, and when I trail, I do so at idle speed and/or in low and rarely leave behind a tread pattern... but that's about it, nothing worth publisizing or anything, just doing my part.

DravisAR

Let me start off...im not really heartily defending myself, as I think you two are both wrong on a few points. But I will say, I have the capability to argue this in a much more respectful manner...and considering im what, maybe 10 years younger than you, i'd appreciate it if you would do the same. If your not willing to agree to that, im not continuing this discussion any further. I'm not here to be called an idiot, or be attacked.

On to the topic at hand: I just bought the rig. Its my first rig, and I've never been wheeling before. I've taken it out 2 days in a row, and wheeled both days.

I have had a couple run in's with DNR personel while out in this area, and both times, they were completely disrespectful, and told me to leave immediately....I was in a WRX, sticking to main roads, and just driving out to certain areas to shoot. They told me shooting was off limits in those areas, and that motor vehicles were not allowed. I called the DNR office, and they told me where the DNR borders were located in the property (this was last summer.) They also told me that as long as a road wasnt GATED and closed/locked or had a sign on it, the ROAD was open to motor vehicles. They also stated that shooting was fine in non marked areas. There are signs on stretches of the road that tell you where you can and cant shoot. One pit, is openly used by the local fire department to shoot, and is usually where I go.

On to the offroading section: What do you know about whats legal and what isnt back there? Im not claiming to know exact borders, but I will tell you, that ive seen dirt bikers, people on quads, and many lifted trucks back there, at all times of the year. Does that make it wrong? No. Does it make it right? Thats what I heard from the DNR people, so thats what im going with.

WATRD

So, by your logic, because I quoted "intellectuals" and had observations of my own, I am an intellectual.

Thanks for the compliment (I think...)

Let's keep those threads where they belong, in Off Topic. Address me there if you wish to further discuss intellect, religion or my use of quotes.

In the mean time, you skipped the on topic question I asked you, so I will repeat it.

What have you done for our sport?

rocket

iTrader: (1)

DravisAR

Im waitin on them...my friends on dialup, and just about as technically inclined as a blind-deaf monkey...he kinda looks like one too

midiwall

I think Rob and I are both (still) waiting for you to say something mature and show that you care.


Are you ready to lose your new rig?


And this past experience has what to do with the current issue? Are you trying to come up with the justification of calling the DNR "jerks"?


We ride in previously WELL KNOWN ORV areas. I listed a few in my first message on the thread.

If we aren't sure about an area, we look for Private Property signs. If we don't find any, we cals the DNR to find out. If the DNR doesn't know, then we call the county to ask about ownership. If they don't know, then we DO NOT RIDE THERE.

It's simple... if you're not sure, don't do it.


The concept of "legal" isn't defined by one or more people doing something.



Rob and I have pointed out some cross-referenced datum that you've supplied with which we've used to make our judgments about you and your actions.

Do you have the time to address those points?

WATRD

Neither Mark nor I are trying to argue the specific borders of where you were since you haven't given an exact location. That is where you are missing our points. Re-read your posts. You give the impression that you are not sure who's land you are on or what the rules are regarding that land. Further, you make it pretty clear you don't care. THAT is the point both of us are making.

Funny how you started sounding very vague about who's property you were on, now you are getting more and more adament that it's okay for you to be there.

To be crystal clear, if you don't know FOR SURE that you have permission to be on the land, you should not be there.

And, just for conversations sake, I would venture a guess that both Mark and I are in the neighborhood of 20 years older than you...

DravisAR

I'm 22 if it makes you feel any younger...sorry...humor.

I think if you guys take it this seriously, and if it REALLY irks you that I may have been wheeling in an area thats off limits...keep it to yourself. Give me advice that I may have been in an area that was unmarked, keep the attacks to yourself, and drop it.

I'm really not going to get into a pissing match about if the government or local agencies are right for closing or opening certain areas of land, as its a deep conversation that could go on forever...and you just dont seem to realize your fighting someone on your own side. If you think appeasing the DNR by staying off land they dont lock up, or mark, is they way to go, fine...but I dont agree with you. As far as you really know, you cant say for sure I was even ON DNR property, and either can I.

Nor can you really say its off limits.

Once I get the pics...you can tell me. But quit the finger pointing until you know for sure.

DudeBud

Ok lets see them