ROCKRUNNER

Hi there I posted about this problem a while back and have tried everything possible. Here is the problem. When I start it in the morning sometimes it starts and sometimes I have to crank it over up to 10 times, now once it catches it runs kind of sluggish for a few seconds then goes up to the normal fast idle. That problem is intermittent. The other one is in second gear and third gear it starts surging real bad. Its like when you see someone learning to drive a standard. Some times its bad and sometimes its slightly there. Now if you have the throttle fully open it doesnt do it through any of the gears. It happens when your driving at a leisurely pace say starting from a light and shifting around 2000 rpm. Ok here is what i have done and replaced.
FUEL PUMP
FUEL FILTER
FUEL PRESSURE REGULATER
WATER TEMP. SENSOR
CAP
ROTOR
PLUGS
WIRES
CATALYTIC CONVERTER
O2 SENSOR
TESTED THE TPS AND ALL CHECKS OUT GOOD
MASS AIR SENSOR IS WORKING(UNPLUG IT TRUCK DIES)
DISCONECTED THE SPEEDO STILL DOES IT(SUPPOSEDLY THERE IS A SPEED SENSOR)
REPLACED EGR VALVE
REPLACED PCV VALVE
NEW INTAKE AND THROTTLEBODY GASKETS(CLEANED TB TOO)
INJECTORS WERE CLEANED AND TESTED AT DEALERSHIP(ALL GOOD)
WAS SCOPED AND NO PROBLEMS WERE FOUND
FUEL PRESSURE WAS TESTED AND WAS GOOD AS WELL.

Someone please help me I dont want to get rid of my toy but im at my wits end. 2 seperate dealers sy there is nothing wrong with it guess im just dreaming it*LOL* Help me

Corey

iTrader: (1)

I'll take a quick stab at it since my rig has done nearly the same thing.
Maybe Jay will see this post too and have some info for you.

Also try searching here for:
"cold start injector, and fuel injectors."
Somewhere I have typed this out a few times

Does your cold start problem happen in colder weather?
here is what mine did:
Cold start in the morning turn key and starter won't catch engine.
Continue to crank, and after a few seconds it roars to life and shakes, coughs, and spits like a dragon.

After a bit it evens out.
It sounds like the cold start injector.
http://www.pnw4runners.net/tech/cold_start.jpg

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...&threadid=3730

I had mine replaced Nov. of 2000 and the problem went away.
It can get quirky in colder weather and do the symptoms you & I described.

Now for #2.
Mine use to surge on the freeway too when I took my foot off the gas to slow down for traffic.
Give it gas, and it went away.

I had all my injectors pulled (but not the cold start one) and ultrasound cleaned.
What happens is the spray pattern gets bad and causes surging at light throttle.
Here is my test.
http://www.pnw4runners.net/tech/flowtest.jpg

As you can see, a few were not up to snuff.
After they were cleaned, the rig ran like a champ and the exhaust hit perfect too.
Before it sputtered.

But from what you have described, both cases sound like what I hit upon here.

PS, just saw all of your injectors were pulled too, so that might rule out my theory of #2.

ROCKRUNNER

Thanks Corey, the starting problem is exactly what you described, sometimes it will start good and other times gotta crank it like crazy. So I will try the CSI. As for the surging it only happens when you let off and then apply light throttle,not let off and coast. If you floor it it wont do it. And it happens when I up shift and slight throttle. Does the dealership do a different test maybe? They did a cleaning on the injection system and they told me they were all within specs. Thanks

ROCKRUNNER

Is it possible the cold start injector is staying on perhaps? and causing my surging. Is it possible for it to be not working properly and then doing its job, and then coming on when the truck is warmed up? Just a thought I had.

Jay

Sounds to me like you need to clean/replace you cold start injector, to address the cold start problem.

I would not suspect the cold start injector to be staying on. I dont think I have ever seen it happen. Surging is a symptom of a Lean Condition, not a Rich condition.

When you say the dealership has tested your fuel injectors, did they "take them out of the engine and clean them" or did they "clean them in the car"? If they did not have them out and ultrasonically cleaned, I would bet that to be your problem. Sounds alot like the symptoms.

Jay

Jay

After thinking about this..... I wanted to add, it is possible your cold start injector is leaking fuel. I dont think the symptoms fit however, I thought I would mention it.

To test this..... first thing in the morning, remove the cold start injector. Leave the connector plugged in, and the fuel supply line connected. Just remove the 2 10mm headed bolts holding it in the plenum. Pull the injector out just far enough to see it clearly. Does the tip look moist with fuel? If so, you CS injector is leaking. This should coincide with black exhaust coming from the engine on start up.

At this point, If the tip does not look wet, it is a good time to test the CS injectors spray pattern. I suggest putting a plastic baggy over the injector, or even a mason jar. ( Any thing to keep the fuel from spraying all over the engine.) Have a friend crank the engine for you for just a second and shut it off. Did the CS Injector spray? Both sides of it? Clean/Replace as needed.

If the injector did not spray, odds are the Cold start injector "time switch" is not functioning properly, or the injector is clogged.

Start with this to address the excessive cranking issue, and let me know.

Jay

ROCKRUNNER

Thanks Jay

I just talked to the dealership and was told they just did a fuel injection cleaning. Meaning they do it with the injectors in the vehicle. I was mistaken about the type of cleaning they do. So whats the best step for checking the injectors? Its a large amount of money to pay if it ends up not fixing the problem. I also ordered a cold start injector so I will be replacing that tomorrow and I will let you know how that goes.

Corey

iTrader: (1)

Rock, to have my injectors pulled, sent to a local shop down the road that ultrasounds them, and put them back in ran me $475 :eek:

That also included a new PCV hose, as mine was brittle.
This was back a few years ago, may be higher.
Corey

ROCKRUNNER

Well I ordered my cold start injector but toyotas computer went down so it wont be in untill Tuesday, but...... I head out today for a relaxing day of wheeling and the truck just dies. On the way out there it was surging real bad more than ever but I figured i would just keep going cause it usually goes away. We get 50 feet off road and the truck dies no warning of any kind. I proceed to check the fuses and such. Turns out no spark from the coil. My buddy tows me home(long ride home with no heat, wife and newborn baby 8 days old) needless to say she wasnt impressed LOL. Once home I test the coil with my meter and she is toast. Of course no one stocks one so i have to wait untill tomorrow. Could the coil have been the cause of the intermittent hard starting and surging? I hope so, but I will let you all know once its in and how it runs.

van.islandrunner

You might want to try the fuel pump relay, you just discribed what my 92 was doing and it drove me nuts for a while ,but as soon as i changed the relay the problem was gone,

ROCKRUNNER

Well im done with my Toyota. I hate the frickin thing. Worst thing I ever bought. I just replaced the coil and still no spark. Now I cant even get it too the dealer. Tested the igniter and its got juice going to it and coming out. I dont know what to do. Its getting towed to the dealer and they can keep it till they find the problem and once its fixed its being sold. Thanks for the help guys but I am now convinced that I will never own another Toyota again. But we will see. I will probably keep it im just rather pissed right off so I needed to vent a little. Maybe i will go have a

UKMyers

Man I hate to hear you say that! Don't lose faith in your Yota!! I think you must have terrible luck because I have never ever heard of anyone having problems like you are, me included!! I wish you and the dealer best of luck in getting it fixed!

Jay

Dont let this challenge ruin your preception of Toyota. I wish you luck in your dealings with the dealer. Hopefully they will find the problem quickly. Keep us posted.

Jay

DH6twinotter

Here's a dump question: What is the cold start injector? Is that what is connected to the passenger's side of the intake manifold with a copper (or some kind of metal) tube coming out? It's about as big around as a pencil. If I pull this off, will a bunch of fuel go spraying everywhere?

Is there a correct term used that I tell the dealer to have the injectors pulled and cleaned?

Well, have fun.
DH6twinotter

Jay

DH6,

Yes that sounds like youve spotted the cold start injector. Removing the fuel supply line (12mm headed bolt) will spray fuel everywhere. However removing the whole unit from the intake plenum will not ((2) 10mm bolts).

If your interested in having your injectors cleaned by having them removed, this is commonly called an "Ultrasonic cleaning". This is done by vibrating the injector while operating the injector under pressure to the best of my knowledge. This never includes the cold start injector. This cleaning is only refering to the normal injectors.

Jay

DH6twinotter

ok thanks. I'll be replacing (or at least trying) my knock sensor and will be pulling the cold start fuel injector along with the intake manifold. This leads me to another question: If I pull out the fuel injectors myself while I have the intake manifold off, would I be saving myself a fair amount of cash? I don't think my injectors are causing much problems, but thought I'd get them cleaned while I have the intake manifold off.

Well, have fun.
DH6twinotter

ROCKRUNNER

Well my truck went into the dealership and they found the problem or so they say. It wont be ready untill tomorrow. Turns out the mass airflow control box(computer) shorted out. Thats why it died and would not start, and they seem to think it was the reason for the surging as well. I will keep my fingers crossed and hopefully that is the case. Heres the killer $1000 for a new one, so between the diagnostic and taxes and such the bill will be $1500. I sure hope this cures my problem. Thanks again for everyones input and suggestions.

ROCKRUNNER

Well im back again on this surging problem. After I picked it up from the dealership for the maf. it starts surging on the way home, so I run it back into them. They keep it overnight, and tell me the next day that everything is fine with it. So I take it for a drive and its still doing it. This is the answer I get "it could be a characteristic of the vehicle" "Your 33" tires and locker are causing this other than that theres nothing else we can do" Well how is that for mechanics. These symptoms have been there since long before I even did anymods to my truck. So now I am dealing straight with TOYOTA CANADA. I emailed them and there reply was take it back to the dealer. Well I phone them and go nuts. Ive had it to the dealer 5 frickin times at $90 an hour and all they can come up with is it might be a characteristic or your tires causing this. Come on I wasnt born yesterday. So they ask me to fax over all the receipts and invoices of everthing ive done to correct this surging and they will get back to me. So im hoping they get back real soon. I asked them what is TOYOTA CANADA going to do for me as there mechanics here cant find the problem and why should I have to fork out anymore money when Ive already spent over $2000 trying to find this problem. So I will let you know how it goes. Just had to vent cause it was surging real bad today. On a positive note I got my centerforce dual friction clutch in this week, one word "SAAAAWWWEEEEEEEET"

Skydigger

So RockRunner, whatever happened with your complaints to Toyota Canada and that surging?

Regards,

Warren

ROCKRUNNER

Toyota Canada did absolutely nothing for me. They said I should take it back to the dealership for them to look at because all their mechanics are well trained and this and that, basically the usual run around. So its still surging, running like crap, hessitating and now my idle dropped to 500 for no apparent reason. I have to adjust it to bring it back up but again there is a reason why it dropped, and I figure the dealer will tell me there is nothing wrong with it, so every day I pull redline wherever I go. I want to see how long a v6 will last, and then i have an excuse to drop in the chevy 4.3. So this is for you Toyota Canada