Hey All,

I know the header discussion has been beat to death, but I'm going to get a set for a 1997 3.4L 4Runner. My question is, do I need the ceramic coating option (Downey) or have them coated (TRD) before installation?

Is the heat difference that big or something to be concerned about? Does anyone here use the header wrap material to keep temps lower?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

 

I have the same interest. Especially about the header wrap. Does it trap moisture and promote premature rusting.

 

Anyone have any advice for us on this? Thanks!

 

I had a cheap Pacesetter on my 85 Supra, un-coated, and it is still holding up after 6+ years.

I would also be ticked off if I had gotten a coated one, because it will get all scratched up during the install, especially in a 'runner.

I am happy with my NWOR headers, they're holding up well, only been on there about a year though...

 

Thanks for the info. Anyone else have an opinion on spending the extra $$$ on coating them?

Also, anybody out there use a header (heat) wrap around them? Except the water thing, I can't see a downside. But it seems to me, that as soon as you start a truck with wrapped headers, the heat would pretty much evaporate any water in there quickly anyway?

Also, anybody out there know a good source for a factory rear-wing? Mine did not come with one, but I want one. Sorry if this is wrong posting area for this one....

Thanks!

 

I paid the extra money for the ceramic coating on my Downey header. It did not get scratched up during installation, and is now one of the only parts on my truck that is not covered in rust. Living on an island in the Atlantic where salt spray is everywhere, and in a place where they salt the crap out of the roads in the winter, my truck is dissolving before my eyes. The header has been on the truck for a little over a year now and looks as good as when I took it out of the box. My opinion is that it was money well spent, but most other locations won't have this extreme of conditions to survive in.

 

I have Edelbrock headers that are HPC coated and Thermo tec wrapped and have had no issues.

John

 

We've found through extensive testing that ceramic coatings and wraps do offer a significant advantage when attempting to lower underhood temperatures and to increase the thermal efficiency of an exhaust system. The coatings don't seem to have any ill effects, and although it was never intended to do so, the ceramic coating does do a good job of keeping rust at bay. Not that we ever have a problem w/ rust w/ stainless steel exhaust systems. We have found that the wraps are good performers as well, but they do significantly reduce the life of whatever part they are applied to. Instead of effectively transferring the heat through the system, the coatings act as more of a buffer/shield and trap the heat... and the moisture... and the road debris and dust. All these catalyze and premature rust starts. I've seen cases w/ steel downpipes on race cars that literally fall apart after unwrapping the wrap from them. And that's only after 5 or 6 races. Granted, the headers on a 4Runner will never reach the temperature of our race cars, but it's still something to consider. Besides... the coatings look better.

My .02

J

 

I would agree with WolfpackTLC.

When I had hedders (on another of my vehicles) I did wrap it and did it ever promote rust. If you live in a very dry place like AZ it should be fine but otherwise I wouldn't wrap them. I would do the coating though because I have seen excellent results from that type of treatment. You could get the coating and wrap them (the coating should prevent the wrap from rusting them) but why bother covering up that nice finish.

Just do the coating, you'll be happy you did.

 

Cool. Thanks everyone for the advice and help on this one. I guess I'm going to go with coating the headers.

Anyone have any good places to get good deals on headers?

Thanks!

 

That depends on who's headers you want to buy...

SummitRacing sells Edelbrock:
http://www.summitracing.com/

"Mike", a member here and the owner of Xtreme Off-Road sells Downey (and TRD I think):
http://www.xtremeoff-road.com/home.htm
michael@xtremeoff-road.com

Truck Performance sells Downey:
http://truckperformance.com/products...NEY&sf1=TOYOTA

And, there are a couple of guys here from various Toyota dealerships which can get you TRD's.

 

I've got Edelbrock headers and I wrapped them.
So far, so good. It deffinately makes a difference with underhood temps. Although the first week or so of driving with new wrapping is disturbing. The wrap smokes A LOT during the first week. One morning, it was so bad, a kid in a vehicle next to me asked if my engine was on fire.

CBDenver-
If you want, we can meet someplace and I can show you what is involved in installing them and wrapping them.

 

HaveBlue,

Thanks for the info! I def. would want to meet up sometime and get any suggestions you have on getting headers installed! I called a bunch of shops around Denver, and $450 to install a set (if I bought them elsewhere) was the cheapest price I could find.
Therefore, I'm going to do myself I think!

Do you still have that stock rear wing we were talking about a while back? If so, I'd be interested in buying that from you as well.

Thanks!

 

Like Wolfpack said, wrapping is going to shorten the life of your header. No matter where you live, wrapping traps moisture and other debris against the steel and promotes oxidation. If you have stainless headers this isn't as big an issue.
Coatings have been proven in all forms of racing and now is even being applied by factories as oem treatment. They hold up about like powder coating does, not invincible but pretty durable. Since they are actually bonded to the metal they also serve to protect it from corrosion as well as control heat. If you're going to throw down the money and time to put headers on, you might as well get the extra benefit of heat control and protection that coatings offer. There are shops that apply the coatings all over if you can't find headers you want already coated. Make sure you use a reputable coater as the process has to be carefully controlled for good results.

 

I have had my TRD headers that were coated by Hi Perf coatings for 4 years now and the still look as good as new. The underhood temps between mine and a buddies non coated are noticable. I think I will get the Mitek out and take a reading of both....

 

Did you ever get a chance to check out those temp differances? I got the TRD stainless so I don't need to worry about the rust.I am concerned with the heat.If it make a considerable differance it will be worth it but if not it's not worth spending the extra money on coating.

 

I did it on another vehicle for the performance benefits....I figured since I was installing a header I might as well get the most HP i possible can out of the upgrade.....it helped up great...

 

SO sins mine are stainless I don't have to worry about the rust problem. Do you think that the coating alone is worth getting for the heat dissipation. Or use the rap. I seen one guy did both. I spoke with a guy that does the coating local here and says that coating on the inside is nearly impossible due to the bends in the headers. Plus you can not properly prep the metal in the header tubes like you can the out side. (Any thoughts to that point?)

 

header mfg's wont warranty if wrapped or coated.

 

I have to disagree here.

The point of an engine is basically a thermal pump so the hotter the engine runs, the more efficient (theoretically) it will be. The problem is that right now engines are made of metal which have their own characteristics when heated. Header wrap is designed to help maximize the pumping efficiency (ie input of fuel and air) of the engine by keeping the heat in the exhaust where you want it, going out of the engine. You do not want it raising the temp of the other parts under the hood (esp fuel and air delivery) or you will be losing some power to that. As far as flanges and cracking....mine were fine but I can't speak for everyone there. I do suspect it does have alot to do with the quality of the header (tubing and flange thickness, weld quality, machined flange surfaces, etc).

It is like apples and oranges to compare a human to a car engine....very different principles.