Feeler: 3.4L TURBO manifold group buy?
11-28-2005, 11:31 AM
#43
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You guys that are getting this, you can't really compare a turbo to a supercharger... sure they do ALMOST the same thing... but you if you're offroading, you don't want to rev the engine super high to get the turbo spooling. That's why superchargers are a popular option because it offers low end power and torque. I do think this is really awesome... and with Gadget helping out... the turbo set up will seem stock!! AWESOME!
Last edited by Keggo; 11-28-2005 at 11:34 AM.
11-28-2005, 11:56 AM
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I see it as a dual solution.
Superchargers for off-roaders.
Turbos for us with 2WD street queens.
The supercharger was a bit over the top for me, but if I can get a turbo for just above half of a SC then I would be very happy. Plus...there is nothing like the sound of a spooling turbo to my ears.
My ex took the '99 4WD with the divorce, GRRRRRR! Like she will ever take it offroad. So I went and got a traveling machine for myself and the kids. I love it.
Superchargers for off-roaders.
Turbos for us with 2WD street queens.
The supercharger was a bit over the top for me, but if I can get a turbo for just above half of a SC then I would be very happy. Plus...there is nothing like the sound of a spooling turbo to my ears.
My ex took the '99 4WD with the divorce, GRRRRRR! Like she will ever take it offroad. So I went and got a traveling machine for myself and the kids. I love it.
11-28-2005, 12:01 PM
#45
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im looking at this as a means to get up the mountains passes easier, not for off-roading, i think the 3.4L has enough power for that, or i havent needed any more power yet. im still waiting to see what the ballpark price is going to be, and everything ill need.
11-28-2005, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 984RNR
Newb Question, How many miles is too many to add Forced Induction. The 98 has 175k on the clock and still runs great but i have a feeling that is a bit too much to handle boost
I had the oportunity to take a lok at some bearings on a 5fz (junkyard motor making sure it hadn't ran upside down). It had about 160k on it and the bearings looked new! I couldn't beileve how beefy the bottom end of these things are.
There are a couple of guys on TTORA and customtacos pushing 100k SINCE S/Cing and lots with over 200k total miles that are S/C'd. In short as long as you take care of the lean out ping issues (a la Gadget) I wouldn't hesitate to put boost to a 5fz with 175k.
11-28-2005, 03:39 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by Keggo
You guys that are getting this, you can't really compare a turbo to a supercharger... sure they do ALMOST the same thing... but you if you're offroading, you don't want to rev the engine super high to get the turbo spooling. That's why superchargers are a popular option because it offers low end power and torque. I do think this is really awesome... and with Gadget helping out... the turbo set up will seem stock!! AWESOME!
The turbos node are talking about will spool up pretty quick - if you are in 4LO, there will be plenty of RPM to be on the boost. Also, another trick is to just blip the gas to get the turbo spinning, and then go.
It should be noted that supercharging (including turbos) do a magnificient job of flattening the torque curve. With either setup, you will have a lot more oomph lower in the RPM range.
Last edited by tc; 11-28-2005 at 03:42 PM.
11-28-2005, 05:29 PM
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yes you can use the turbo in conjunction with a snorkel...give it enough breathing tho....larger opening the happier...
I am also one of those guys who put a s/c running at 10psi when the engine turned 200k km...its now at 246k km and still going strong...infact i think its getting faster....
And only more being added
Node one thing i would liek totake a look of is the 3vz-e's fuel rail...if its like the rest of the V6's then its beefy but would be safe to check. Prob talk to toysrme on that one
The Injectors should all be the same...just dont turbo without larger injectors and a good condition head gasket
I am also one of those guys who put a s/c running at 10psi when the engine turned 200k km...its now at 246k km and still going strong...infact i think its getting faster....
And only more being added
Node one thing i would liek totake a look of is the 3vz-e's fuel rail...if its like the rest of the V6's then its beefy but would be safe to check. Prob talk to toysrme on that one
The Injectors should all be the same...just dont turbo without larger injectors and a good condition head gasket
Last edited by Weasy2k; 11-28-2005 at 05:31 PM.
11-28-2005, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AK95Taco
If you have been even remotely nice to your motor (i.e. oil changes and not 5k shifts every day) then a 5fz is good to AT LEAST 300k. I didn't even hesitate to put one won with 196k on the od.
I had the oportunity to take a lok at some bearings on a 5fz (junkyard motor making sure it hadn't ran upside down). It had about 160k on it and the bearings looked new! I couldn't beileve how beefy the bottom end of these things are.
There are a couple of guys on TTORA and customtacos pushing 100k SINCE S/Cing and lots with over 200k total miles that are S/C'd. In short as long as you take care of the lean out ping issues (a la Gadget) I wouldn't hesitate to put boost to a 5fz with 175k.
I had the oportunity to take a lok at some bearings on a 5fz (junkyard motor making sure it hadn't ran upside down). It had about 160k on it and the bearings looked new! I couldn't beileve how beefy the bottom end of these things are.
There are a couple of guys on TTORA and customtacos pushing 100k SINCE S/Cing and lots with over 200k total miles that are S/C'd. In short as long as you take care of the lean out ping issues (a la Gadget) I wouldn't hesitate to put boost to a 5fz with 175k.
That puts a smile on my face
Definately Interested
11-28-2005, 09:22 PM
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Good news!
The first batch of laser cut flanges will be done tomorrow. I will have head, turbo input and, downpipe flanges all ready to start assembly of a new prototype as soon as I get this MR2 out of the way. I will take picks of the manifolds so you guys can see how the work is progressing along the way.
I'm certainly not going to argue that the turbo will make boost as low as the supercharger, it wont, not THIS system anyway. It is possible to choose a turbo that will have positive pressure at idle just like the SC. My twin turbo 5VZ had TDO4's with the 5cm housings and it had instantaneous boost response. There was zero spool time. Like everything though, there was a trade off. The tiny turbos choked the engine in the upper rpms. It actually felt just like the SC.
The kit will still spool low enough so you wont fall out of the boost range when 4wheeling. Especially you 3.0 guys that will be getting the smaller AR turbine housing. The 3.4L doesn't really need too much help down low, so it will receive the large AR supra housing or even a T4. Up top is where the motor is grasping for breath. That's where I would like to see the turbo at its optimum flow. I plan to try several different compressor sizes and may offer the smaller compressor wheels for those who want really fast responce.
You will be reaping the benefits of all the experimentation I have been doing with these motors over the last year (4 different sets of manifolds LOL). I'm fairly confident in using these compressors with the 5VZ and I will provide dyno numbers of the turbos at several different boost settings with the stock fuel system. Like I said earlier, I will also install a few different compressor sections and record the results with each. As for the 3.0 I will have to spend some more time with the engine. I know that fuel is going to have to be addressed and I have a test vehicle to play around with. Unfortunately its an auto transmission so it may not give accurate dyno numbers. Im still looking for a MT 3.0 truck locally to install a kit on.
The first batch of laser cut flanges will be done tomorrow. I will have head, turbo input and, downpipe flanges all ready to start assembly of a new prototype as soon as I get this MR2 out of the way. I will take picks of the manifolds so you guys can see how the work is progressing along the way.
I'm certainly not going to argue that the turbo will make boost as low as the supercharger, it wont, not THIS system anyway. It is possible to choose a turbo that will have positive pressure at idle just like the SC. My twin turbo 5VZ had TDO4's with the 5cm housings and it had instantaneous boost response. There was zero spool time. Like everything though, there was a trade off. The tiny turbos choked the engine in the upper rpms. It actually felt just like the SC.
The kit will still spool low enough so you wont fall out of the boost range when 4wheeling. Especially you 3.0 guys that will be getting the smaller AR turbine housing. The 3.4L doesn't really need too much help down low, so it will receive the large AR supra housing or even a T4. Up top is where the motor is grasping for breath. That's where I would like to see the turbo at its optimum flow. I plan to try several different compressor sizes and may offer the smaller compressor wheels for those who want really fast responce.
You will be reaping the benefits of all the experimentation I have been doing with these motors over the last year (4 different sets of manifolds LOL). I'm fairly confident in using these compressors with the 5VZ and I will provide dyno numbers of the turbos at several different boost settings with the stock fuel system. Like I said earlier, I will also install a few different compressor sections and record the results with each. As for the 3.0 I will have to spend some more time with the engine. I know that fuel is going to have to be addressed and I have a test vehicle to play around with. Unfortunately its an auto transmission so it may not give accurate dyno numbers. Im still looking for a MT 3.0 truck locally to install a kit on.
Last edited by node; 11-28-2005 at 09:24 PM.
11-29-2005, 12:22 PM
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So Node...I have a good friend in Knoxville,TN that I want to visit...doesn't look too much farther to your area. Might be nice to have you install a turbo for me. (grin)
11-29-2005, 03:47 PM
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David,
We would love for you to come by the shop. Knoxville isnt exactly around the corner though. But if you are driving from texas anway ehh.
tour4fun: the manifolds will initially be offered only in mild s40 but david wants to produce some in stainless. I have been using the thick wall stuff for over a year now and have not cracked it even once so I would reccomend using the same materials since they have proven to hold up. At least untill I get a chance to test the stainless over an extended period of time.
I got some new parts in for one of the 5VZ-FE turbo motor projects at the shop check em out --->Pic One Pic Two
We would love for you to come by the shop. Knoxville isnt exactly around the corner though. But if you are driving from texas anway ehh.
tour4fun: the manifolds will initially be offered only in mild s40 but david wants to produce some in stainless. I have been using the thick wall stuff for over a year now and have not cracked it even once so I would reccomend using the same materials since they have proven to hold up. At least untill I get a chance to test the stainless over an extended period of time.
I got some new parts in for one of the 5VZ-FE turbo motor projects at the shop check em out --->Pic One Pic Two
11-30-2005, 08:25 AM
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node, your 5VZ-powered MR2 is very impressive to say the least! You do some amazing work. I personally would be interested in a turbo manifold if it came with a T4 flange and a pipe to run an external wastegate.
11-30-2005, 09:32 PM
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While one off versions would be easy to produce, I would prefer this to just be a simple mass produced manifold to start with. That will make things easy for myself and my welder. The problem with fitting different flanges on there is that each turbo has a different housing shape. Some are clockwise, others are not. I know you are familiar with this PowerMac.
I found a 3VZ 4runner to do the test fitting on for the 3.0 kit so its possible to make you an kit. Well see. I should have pics of all the flanges and parts tomorrow if I have time to run by the shop and snap a few.
I found a 3VZ 4runner to do the test fitting on for the 3.0 kit so its possible to make you an kit. Well see. I should have pics of all the flanges and parts tomorrow if I have time to run by the shop and snap a few.
12-05-2005, 06:52 PM
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Update:
The laser cut flanges are ready for the manifolds. I have completed the MR2 5VZ manifolds and Im now ready to start prototyping a truck mani. Looks like we need at least 3 to 4 hours with a rig to get all the fabbing done on the first manifold. Im looking for local volenteers who can be without their truck for a full day.
Heres a pic of the turbo input and output flanges
And here the size of the downpipe can bee seen. Its 3" inner diameter but I will also produce some with stock exhaust sizes for those who have to pass emissions
The laser cut flanges are ready for the manifolds. I have completed the MR2 5VZ manifolds and Im now ready to start prototyping a truck mani. Looks like we need at least 3 to 4 hours with a rig to get all the fabbing done on the first manifold. Im looking for local volenteers who can be without their truck for a full day.
Heres a pic of the turbo input and output flanges
And here the size of the downpipe can bee seen. Its 3" inner diameter but I will also produce some with stock exhaust sizes for those who have to pass emissions
Last edited by node; 12-05-2005 at 06:54 PM.
12-05-2005, 07:21 PM
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The only thing i see about superchargers and turbochargers off road is...
Do you really need THAT much power? You have to realize HOW much tourqe you have in 4-low. Ask yourself, do you need more? The power isn't needed for off road stuff, unless you are racing. I have never been in 4-low and needed more power. If you do, just get lower gears.
Node, I am VERY interested in this, but it'll be a while till i can get the $$$ to buy a kit.
Do you really need THAT much power? You have to realize HOW much tourqe you have in 4-low. Ask yourself, do you need more? The power isn't needed for off road stuff, unless you are racing. I have never been in 4-low and needed more power. If you do, just get lower gears.
Node, I am VERY interested in this, but it'll be a while till i can get the $$$ to buy a kit.
12-05-2005, 07:35 PM
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Several of the board members are working with me to produce the kit. Once I have a prototype made up for the manifold, they will immediatly be available just like the 5VZ MR2 Turbo manifold is now. The "kit" will take a little more time. www.MR2Guru.com has agreed to distribute the 4runner, prerunner and T100 manifolds and kit once they are available. That way you guys can buy these parts from a respected, well established buissness. They are about to redo their website to include toyota trucks 
oly884, you are correct, through gearing you dont need more power in 4L but if you are towing somthing big or just want to pass when going uphill the extra torque and horsepower will be VERY noticeable. We are even throwing around the idea of an electronic turbo enable switch so that you wont need to run premium unless you enguage the boost, very nifty. So basically when you need extra power for towing you could flip a switch that would enable the boost. Cool huh?
oly884, you are correct, through gearing you dont need more power in 4L but if you are towing somthing big or just want to pass when going uphill the extra torque and horsepower will be VERY noticeable. We are even throwing around the idea of an electronic turbo enable switch so that you wont need to run premium unless you enguage the boost, very nifty. So basically when you need extra power for towing you could flip a switch that would enable the boost. Cool huh?
