Feeler: 3.4L TURBO manifold group buy?
11-25-2005 | 10:51 AM
#21
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Also from Toysrme:
The 1mz-fe also has little low end power to spool a turbo with. Much less than a 3vz-fe, a couple times less than a 5vz-fe & probably a little bit more than a 3vz-e (I'm guessing, I've still never seen a 3vz-e dyno!)
Stock 3.0L TRD Supercharger @ 4psi 1mz-fe
SAFC
JIC Bullet Cat Back Exhaust System
Complete joke for $2500 that runs lean enouhg to kill the stock engine! (No wonder it went out of production 3 times!)
6psi TRD Supercharger 1mz-fe (6.0LBS boost pulley from PULLEY BOYS)
JP Performance exhaust system Header on back Cat-back system
Apexi SAFC II controller
Jim Foreign Affair Fuel system upgrade kit
Injen intake + CAI extension
Peak Torque 227lb-ft @ 3500rpm.
stock CT-26 @ 10psi 1mz-fe
intake
SAFC + FPU
stock exhaust (from the cat back)
260fl-lb @ 3500rpm. Peak torque @ 270ft-lb @ around 4150-4200.
Lag is going to be non-existent. It's simply waiting for a turbo to spool into positive & what about spool time? That's why god created a torque convertor - to Cover up any amount of spool time a turbo has. LoL!
(The car convertors stall @ 2400-2500rpm, if yalls is even close to the same - you'll get the same result)
You step on the gas - the engine jumps by itself - the turbo is spooled by the quick engine increase.
-Toysrme
The 1mz-fe also has little low end power to spool a turbo with. Much less than a 3vz-fe, a couple times less than a 5vz-fe & probably a little bit more than a 3vz-e (I'm guessing, I've still never seen a 3vz-e dyno!)
Stock 3.0L TRD Supercharger @ 4psi 1mz-fe
SAFC
JIC Bullet Cat Back Exhaust System
Complete joke for $2500 that runs lean enouhg to kill the stock engine! (No wonder it went out of production 3 times!)
6psi TRD Supercharger 1mz-fe (6.0LBS boost pulley from PULLEY BOYS)
JP Performance exhaust system Header on back Cat-back system
Apexi SAFC II controller
Jim Foreign Affair Fuel system upgrade kit
Injen intake + CAI extension
Peak Torque 227lb-ft @ 3500rpm.
stock CT-26 @ 10psi 1mz-fe
intake
SAFC + FPU
stock exhaust (from the cat back)
260fl-lb @ 3500rpm. Peak torque @ 270ft-lb @ around 4150-4200.
Lag is going to be non-existent. It's simply waiting for a turbo to spool into positive & what about spool time? That's why god created a torque convertor - to Cover up any amount of spool time a turbo has. LoL!
(The car convertors stall @ 2400-2500rpm, if yalls is even close to the same - you'll get the same result)
You step on the gas - the engine jumps by itself - the turbo is spooled by the quick engine increase.
-Toysrme
11-25-2005 | 12:05 PM
#22
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains NC
Thanks Toysrme
The manifold is going to be for a single turbo NOT twins. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. A single CT-26 A Or inexpensive T3 would be ideal. My estimates for this kit are all bassed on the 3.4L DOHC engine. With the 3.0 3VZ-e you would be looking at a little less spool. My estimate would be full boost by 3000+ on a 3vz. On the 5vz you should see full boost before 3k easy. For the 3.4L the wastegate actuator included would be for 7psi.
As far as gas mileage goes, the turbo will have a better MPG vs the supercharger. Toysrme how much more fuel does the fuel system in the 3VZ-e have available. Basically, at what point are the injectors at 85 - 90% DS with the supercharger? That would help me figure out what turbo would best be suited to this application.
As far as where the torque is added in the power band, that totaly depends on the turbocharger you choose. Most important in that is the AR on the turbine side. There are several different housings available with the CT-26 if you want to keep it all toyota
The manifold is going to be for a single turbo NOT twins. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. A single CT-26 A Or inexpensive T3 would be ideal. My estimates for this kit are all bassed on the 3.4L DOHC engine. With the 3.0 3VZ-e you would be looking at a little less spool. My estimate would be full boost by 3000+ on a 3vz. On the 5vz you should see full boost before 3k easy. For the 3.4L the wastegate actuator included would be for 7psi.
As far as gas mileage goes, the turbo will have a better MPG vs the supercharger. Toysrme how much more fuel does the fuel system in the 3VZ-e have available. Basically, at what point are the injectors at 85 - 90% DS with the supercharger? That would help me figure out what turbo would best be suited to this application.
As far as where the torque is added in the power band, that totaly depends on the turbocharger you choose. Most important in that is the AR on the turbine side. There are several different housings available with the CT-26 if you want to keep it all toyota
11-25-2005 | 09:22 PM
#24
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From: Fort Worth, TX
I am very interested. Could someone with a decent mechanic helping him install your kit very easily?
This kit is exactly what I am looking for. I have a 2WD auto that sometimes needs a little more hp on the highway. I will never go offroad, but I want it to go a little quicker sometimes.
This kit is exactly what I am looking for. I have a 2WD auto that sometimes needs a little more hp on the highway. I will never go offroad, but I want it to go a little quicker sometimes.
11-25-2005 | 09:47 PM
#25
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From: earth
X2and4X,
i personally wouldnt get it for "off-roading" i would want one to get the mountain easier/quicker, not sure about anyone else, but then again im looking into re-gearing, so we will see, regeard "and" a turbo ? maybe i could get up them darn hills pretty easy then. lol
i personally wouldnt get it for "off-roading" i would want one to get the mountain easier/quicker, not sure about anyone else, but then again im looking into re-gearing, so we will see, regeard "and" a turbo ? maybe i could get up them darn hills pretty easy then. lol
11-25-2005 | 10:17 PM
#26
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From: Vancouver, Canada
please guys with Autos....
watch out for your tranny they will need a valve body upgrade! It Costs about 470usd without shipping....Contact John at IPT for more details
http://www.ipttrans.com/
Again Node has put alot of detail into the work he has done.
If anyone needs fuel injection for these turbo kits, i will be releasing a fuel injection upgrade kit in the near future as well
the 3vz-e does not have the capible fuel at all...as far as know stock injectors are already at 70-75% duty already...
watch out for your tranny they will need a valve body upgrade! It Costs about 470usd without shipping....Contact John at IPT for more details
http://www.ipttrans.com/
Again Node has put alot of detail into the work he has done.
If anyone needs fuel injection for these turbo kits, i will be releasing a fuel injection upgrade kit in the near future as well
the 3vz-e does not have the capible fuel at all...as far as know stock injectors are already at 70-75% duty already...
11-26-2005 | 07:45 AM
#27
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From: Southern MD USA
Originally Posted by node
If I put a kit together everything will be bolt on with the exception of the oil pan return. There is a possibility of using the tapped portion of the block where the other dipstick fitting goes as a return for the oil supply so that would be a simple plug and play thing too.. For the kit, I would do a wrightup and also a video much the same as I did for this V6 swap http://www.mr2board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467
As far a price goes, a full kit would be well less than a new TRD supercharger by itself. I cant be too exact because I dont know how many people are interested yet. I can tell you that I already have used Ct-26 - A turbos available for $250 +/- depending on mileage with fittings and wastegate actuators. My MR2 manifolds sell for around $350 but the truck version will require more materials and labor so expect a price just beyond $400 using some of your existing parts (again prices decrease with volume). The downpipes are roughly $200 and you will need to see an exhaust shop to have them fitted to your exhaust system. You should be able to keep the stock catylist system intact (I need to look closer at this though). Hoses, oil lines and fittings will likely cost at least another $200. So we could have a complete kit for around US $1200 give or take a hundred.
The system will be 100% compatible with the stock ECU both manual transmission and auto. I have tested the auto ECU to 8psi but would not go beyond that since the injectors cant really handle the flow requirements at 8 psi.
As far a price goes, a full kit would be well less than a new TRD supercharger by itself. I cant be too exact because I dont know how many people are interested yet. I can tell you that I already have used Ct-26 - A turbos available for $250 +/- depending on mileage with fittings and wastegate actuators. My MR2 manifolds sell for around $350 but the truck version will require more materials and labor so expect a price just beyond $400 using some of your existing parts (again prices decrease with volume). The downpipes are roughly $200 and you will need to see an exhaust shop to have them fitted to your exhaust system. You should be able to keep the stock catylist system intact (I need to look closer at this though). Hoses, oil lines and fittings will likely cost at least another $200. So we could have a complete kit for around US $1200 give or take a hundred.
The system will be 100% compatible with the stock ECU both manual transmission and auto. I have tested the auto ECU to 8psi but would not go beyond that since the injectors cant really handle the flow requirements at 8 psi.
I have developed the ideal fuel system for a turbo 5vz. It is the URD 5vz Turbo Port Fueler. In short it is a high end 3d additional injector controller and a special plate made to hold 6 additional injectors and a MAF signal clamp.
So, if you build a turbo system for the 5vz we can help you properly fuel and tune it to any power level you can dream up.
Gadget
11-26-2005 | 08:38 AM
#28
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From: Montreal, QC Canada
Gadget, what is your take on the best way to go about adding boost to the 5VZ. It seems like a turbo might be a relatively cheap solution to adding boost but it appears to require alot of extras (manifolds, oil porting, etc) and I am worried I still won't be getting the performance I am after as I mentioned in my post above.
Can you give a few more details (or links) about these turbo systems you did?
Performance? Issues? etc....
Can you give a few more details (or links) about these turbo systems you did?
Performance? Issues? etc....
11-26-2005 | 08:39 AM
#29
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From: Mona, Utah
I can't wait to see a price on all of this. A turbo from Node and fuel upgrades from Gadget, sounds like a great combo! BTW, I hope there will be a kit for the 4.0 in the future, this all looks very interesting. One little question, what exhaust mods will need to be done?
11-26-2005 | 09:18 AM
#30
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted by MTL_4runner
Gadget, what is your take on the best way to go about adding boost to the 5VZ. It seems like a turbo might be a relatively cheap solution to adding boost but it appears to require alot of extras (manifolds, oil porting, etc) and I am worried I still won't be getting the performance I am after as I mentioned in my post above.
Can you give a few more details (or links) about these turbo systems you did?
Performance? Issues? etc....
Can you give a few more details (or links) about these turbo systems you did?
Performance? Issues? etc....
A turbo will outpreform the regular TRD S/C any day! The ct26 is a relitivly cheap turbo and it last a VERY long time... A great thing is, that if you buy a ct26 kit from node you can go out and buy a adapter to go from a t3 to t3/t4 or a gt turbo anyday without having to buy new manifolds and such becuase th mr2 shares the same turbo and there is tons of adapters avalible for it.
Still in the end these turbos willbe able to get you enough power that will make you smile when punching it
At least you 4runner guys have weight in the rear....even with the s/c i cant keep the power down in my tacoma while on the highway....
11-26-2005 | 01:26 PM
#32
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains NC
Well in responce to a few questions:
The turbo would have a warrentee. Most likely for six months. The manifolds will probably be covered for a year (6mo for stainless). There will be two different options for the Toyota turbo. You can either have a small AR twin entry housing like the MR2 uses. That would have very fast spool even on the 3.0. Or you could install a larger single entry housing for higher power potential reccomended for the 3.4L.
Gadget: At 7 psi the 3.4L is on the edge of its injector flow capability but still safe IMHO. I do agree that 8psi is really pushing it. Consider though, I have run the 5VZ with 8 psi through an intercooler with the stock fuel system and had no issues. Keep in mind the cooler charge is more dense so it requires more fuel or less timing. I ran the twin turbo 3.4L like that for many months. The internals are still in tip top condition even after EXTREME abuse of road raceing etc..
For those of you with the 3.0, you should heed Gadget's advice. A fuel upgrade will be required. From what Toysrme has told me though, the stock AFM adjustment can be used to lean out some very big injectors. So, that upgrade should be fairly inexpensive.
The exhaust will exit on the same side of the engine so a good muffler shop should be able to couple the downpipe to the existing system. I dont think I will persue CARB Certification for a kit, its just not worth the trouble. In most states its perfectly legal to add a turbo as long as the stock catylitic system stays in place.
The turbo would have a warrentee. Most likely for six months. The manifolds will probably be covered for a year (6mo for stainless). There will be two different options for the Toyota turbo. You can either have a small AR twin entry housing like the MR2 uses. That would have very fast spool even on the 3.0. Or you could install a larger single entry housing for higher power potential reccomended for the 3.4L.
Gadget: At 7 psi the 3.4L is on the edge of its injector flow capability but still safe IMHO. I do agree that 8psi is really pushing it. Consider though, I have run the 5VZ with 8 psi through an intercooler with the stock fuel system and had no issues. Keep in mind the cooler charge is more dense so it requires more fuel or less timing. I ran the twin turbo 3.4L like that for many months. The internals are still in tip top condition even after EXTREME abuse of road raceing etc..
For those of you with the 3.0, you should heed Gadget's advice. A fuel upgrade will be required. From what Toysrme has told me though, the stock AFM adjustment can be used to lean out some very big injectors. So, that upgrade should be fairly inexpensive.
The exhaust will exit on the same side of the engine so a good muffler shop should be able to couple the downpipe to the existing system. I dont think I will persue CARB Certification for a kit, its just not worth the trouble. In most states its perfectly legal to add a turbo as long as the stock catylitic system stays in place.
Last edited by node; 11-26-2005 at 01:28 PM.
11-26-2005 | 10:01 PM
#33
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From: Fort Worth, TX
I take it that you would recommend a larger diameter exhaust to go with the increased output velocity of gases. Maybe to a 3" exhaust from a 2 1/4"
Please understand I am learning.
Thanks!
Please understand I am learning.
Thanks!
11-26-2005 | 10:11 PM
#34
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From: San Jose, CA
3" would be too much. You'd only want to go to 2.5". With 3" you wouldn't have any backpressure which would kill your "UMPH" and it is questionable if your high end would remain stable either.
About the thread...in the end I might be interested, but it's still a great amount of money. I believe that the demand is here and that you guys should go ahead with this to open up a new chaper in 5VZFE modification
About the thread...in the end I might be interested, but it's still a great amount of money. I believe that the demand is here and that you guys should go ahead with this to open up a new chaper in 5VZFE modification
11-27-2005 | 09:17 AM
#36
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted by marko3xl3
3" would be too much. You'd only want to go to 2.5". With 3" you wouldn't have any backpressure which would kill your "UMPH" and it is questionable if your high end would remain stable either.
About the thread...in the end I might be interested, but it's still a great amount of money. I believe that the demand is here and that you guys should go ahead with this to open up a new chaper in 5VZFE modification
About the thread...in the end I might be interested, but it's still a great amount of money. I believe that the demand is here and that you guys should go ahead with this to open up a new chaper in 5VZFE modification
New chapter is already being opened. The 5vz is starting to become a very popular engine out there.
With cams and valve springs in devleopment there should be alot ot get in the near future!
11-27-2005 | 09:43 AM
#37
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains NC
Originally Posted by Weasy2k
New chapter is already being opened. The 5vz is starting to become a very popular engine out there.
With cams and valve springs in devleopment there should be alot ot get in the near future!
With cams and valve springs in devleopment there should be alot ot get in the near future!
Lets NOT turn this thread into a "backpressure is good" debate! With a turbo, the less restriction there is in the exhaust after the turbine the better. Lets just leave it at that. You can still use the majority of the stock exhaust system but I do reccomend that you upgrade it. For you 3.0 guys that stuff is 10+ years old and is probably starting to rust anyway so why not?
The ultimate goal of this system will be more power than the TRD supercharger at less than half the cost. Since the 3.0 will need bigger injectors, I may do a core exchange with the AFM. I could send back a recalibrated unit with upgraded injectors. I still need to find an inexpensive source for new fuel injectors though.
11-27-2005 | 11:36 AM
#39
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From: Blue Ridge Mountains NC
David,
I will eventually, right now I have 17 credit hrs remaining before I complete my second degree so im working my ass of on that. The automotive work that I have been doing (swaps, fabrication, etc) has been only on the weekends and at night. Im looking forward to spending more time on this kind of stuff though
I will eventually, right now I have 17 credit hrs remaining before I complete my second degree so im working my ass of on that. The automotive work that I have been doing (swaps, fabrication, etc) has been only on the weekends and at night. Im looking forward to spending more time on this kind of stuff though
