Deckplate mod does nothing
#102
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I couldn't help it. After you've been around this place as long as we have, these kinds of threads start getting boring. I was just trying to make it interesting again.
Before you know it, we'll see another K&N/similar filters vs. OEM filters thread.
Before you know it, we'll see another K&N/similar filters vs. OEM filters thread.
#104
Sorry to bump a 2 month old topic, but I found this page http://www.gadgetonline.com/AirInduction.htm
This is someone who has done the deckplate mod and ran it on the dyno with an increase from the mod. What I am interested in is removing the air elbow. Any support on this?
This is someone who has done the deckplate mod and ran it on the dyno with an increase from the mod. What I am interested in is removing the air elbow. Any support on this?
#105
Sorry to bump a 2 month old topic, but I found this page http://www.gadgetonline.com/AirInduction.htm
This is someone who has done the deckplate mod and ran it on the dyno with an increase from the mod. What I am interested in is removing the air elbow. Any support on this?
This is someone who has done the deckplate mod and ran it on the dyno with an increase from the mod. What I am interested in is removing the air elbow. Any support on this?
#106
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I recently did the catplate mod. Punched a big hole in my cat. Awesome.
Also swapped out the rhodium and platinum for the much lighter titanium. Well worth it.
Also swapped out the rhodium and platinum for the much lighter titanium. Well worth it.
Last edited by cackalak han; 09-23-2009 at 12:06 PM.
#107
Sorry to bump a 2 month old topic, but I found this page http://www.gadgetonline.com/AirInduction.htm
This is someone who has done the deckplate mod and ran it on the dyno with an increase from the mod. What I am interested in is removing the air elbow. Any support on this?
This is someone who has done the deckplate mod and ran it on the dyno with an increase from the mod. What I am interested in is removing the air elbow. Any support on this?
You will lose some ability if you plan to ford deeper streams. The purpose of the deckplate is to retain the ability to reseal the airbox for fording.
#108
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Sorry to bump a 2 month old topic, but I found this page http://www.gadgetonline.com/AirInduction.htm
This is someone who has done the deckplate mod and ran it on the dyno with an increase from the mod. What I am interested in is removing the air elbow. Any support on this?
This is someone who has done the deckplate mod and ran it on the dyno with an increase from the mod. What I am interested in is removing the air elbow. Any support on this?
Nevermind, I found a step by step process: http://www.4runners.org/writeups/airbox/index.html
Apparently you missed this on the first page!
Here's some more info: http://www.gadgetonline.com/AirInduction.htm
BTW, how about the "air elbow" mod? http://www.4runners.org/writeups/airbox/index.html
BTW, how about the "air elbow" mod? http://www.4runners.org/writeups/airbox/index.html
#109
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This goes both against logic, and very scientific methods I applied to my 4Runner.
1. There is very little economical sense for Toyota to put on a physically restrictive intake, as plastic is cheap, and space under the hood is plentiful. It is not logical, considering how much emphasis is placed on power in the US market. If they could so easily get crank HP up by 10, they would have surely done it, as rated power is a very serious selling point.
2. From what I tested on my 4Runner (can't speak for Tacos) there is no benefit to the deckplace mod, as there is no vacuum present prior to the air filter. This is positive, conclusive and final proof that no matter how many deckplates are put in, there will be no improvement in volumetric efficiency of the engine, and therefore no power gain whatsoever.
1. There is very little economical sense for Toyota to put on a physically restrictive intake, as plastic is cheap, and space under the hood is plentiful. It is not logical, considering how much emphasis is placed on power in the US market. If they could so easily get crank HP up by 10, they would have surely done it, as rated power is a very serious selling point.
2. From what I tested on my 4Runner (can't speak for Tacos) there is no benefit to the deckplace mod, as there is no vacuum present prior to the air filter. This is positive, conclusive and final proof that no matter how many deckplates are put in, there will be no improvement in volumetric efficiency of the engine, and therefore no power gain whatsoever.
Back to how you measured the pressure... You have to use a pitot tube perpendicular to the flow to measure the static pressure and you have to take a number of measurements across the flow to get enough data to be significant. Otherwise you will get dynamic effects (i.e. velocity head) and the readings won't mean much. Velocity head could cancel any static vacuum and make it appear that there is around zero vacuum.
Measurements must be done correctly in a repeatable and controlled fashion with equipment properly calibrated and sensitive enough to the pressure differences in the range that you are expecting.
That said, I haven't dynoed my deckplate modded engine, but I do feel a difference at 3k rpm plus and this is supported by some dyno measurements that others have taken. Remember also, that this is world vehicle, and not just for the NA market. The Hilux surf is marketed around the world.
#110
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Last year I had a 96 LTD 3.4 that had been in a front end collision, so it did not have a airbox at all just a cheap cone filter, I sold it and bought a 97 LTD completely stock accept for the ISR mod. That 96 with the open filter ran better, was quicker, better passing gear and had way better milliage than the stock 97. I believe the open filter made all the difference.
Just my 2cents
Just my 2cents
#111
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Absolutely not, that is not the only way. If you remove the spare wheel from your car, and want to know how many pounds of weight the car lost, you don't need to weigh the whole car. You can just measure what the spare wheel weights, and that will be enough to conclusive state by how much the car is lighter now. You infer the weight lost, on the single data point, the weight of the spare.
Same here, you only need one data point to conclusive prove if the deck plate has any effect. I've presented a very simple methodology to disproving a popular myth.
If you can argue with my methodology, be my guest, but so far it looks like you not the sciency type.
Same here, you only need one data point to conclusive prove if the deck plate has any effect. I've presented a very simple methodology to disproving a popular myth.
If you can argue with my methodology, be my guest, but so far it looks like you not the sciency type.
#112
We discuss problems, issues, concerns, and improvement to our vehicles. When someone starts doing "rain dances" to improve gas mileage, and tell everyone that it works, then I think it's worthy to discuss the merits of such practices, while keeping the discussion within the bounds of modern science and scientific methods.
#113
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So far the window decal mod and the high performance camper shell mod haven't panned out very well for me.
#114
You only rev'ed the engine to 4000 rpms... you didn't exceed the flow capacity of the stock intake. If you were to spin the engine higher more air would be required, and the stock hole area would choke the engine vs the modded intake.
#115
No way!
But realistically, unless you are at the drag strip making everyone jealous with the 3.4, there is no reason to rev it above mid 3000s where the torque peaks.
Just like most people don't need ZR tires to go over 200mph, they don't need to hit the redline while driving. I certainly haven't had the need to do that in 10 years of owning the 3.4. Maybe that's why I haven't ever started a "Where can I buy an engine cheap?" type of thread.
But realistically, unless you are at the drag strip making everyone jealous with the 3.4, there is no reason to rev it above mid 3000s where the torque peaks.
Just like most people don't need ZR tires to go over 200mph, they don't need to hit the redline while driving. I certainly haven't had the need to do that in 10 years of owning the 3.4. Maybe that's why I haven't ever started a "Where can I buy an engine cheap?" type of thread.
#116
If shifting at 3000 RPM in second, will put you at an RPM that has less torque than you get at 4000, you're better off reving on up to 3700.
As for intakes, cars have to pass ever more stringent sound tests these days, and they are getting stricter on intake noise as the years go by. It's not all about what a soccer mom might or might not like.
That said any gain that night be had by opening the air box ahead of the filter is going to small, as in likely not measurable. Unless you do other modes to open air flow up significantly above stock elsewhere. Certainly not enough gain for me to start changing anything on mine.
#117
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A larger intake box with a 3.5 intake hole will get you better results than a large hole in a small oem box. Atmospheric air, depending on the density up to something like 14 psi pushes into the air box where the engine pulls it in. At wot there is no atmospheric pressure in the intake tube, the engine vacuum takes over. As the butterfly closes atmospheric air pressure rises. When u draw air from a closed box system you create a higher velocity of air going to the engine. It would help fill your cylinder fill.
As for your Resonator, it works in two ways. The resonator is a tuning method for torque. When ur valves open it releases a pressure wave and the wave comes back up through the intake manifold and the resonator uses it to silence the incoming air.
You will find that if u take your resonator out and put a strait pipe in u change where your torque band hits. Normally it shifts the power band up to a higher rpm when you take out your resonator.
It's very true that the less restriction the less the engine has to work, but you give up your low end torque for high rpm hp. This is K&N's idea for all vehicles, Hp and torque you can only use at high rpm. So an in closed box is better than a filter out in the open or an oem box cut wide open.
I've tested the open filter against the boxed filter. The Boxed filter always did better.
As for exhaust, larger is not always better, muffler flow is everything, pipe size is not as important as muffler flow. For a tuned exhaust like the stock headers, a chambered muffler is best. As strait through or glass pack type is not going to get u much but noise.
A little rule to go by for sizing exhaust flow speaking in terms of aspirated engines.
Take your engine HP x 2.2 EX 236 x 2.2 = 519.2 So a muffler rated around 520 ish should be good.
So if you look at TRD intakes you will see they use a box to draw from and they use the velocity stack built into their intake tube. Starting out with large dia pipe and funneling down to a smaller size is a great way to increase velocity. As for the cat-back, looks like a three chambered muffler that has louvered pipe, just an educated guess.
Well that's my two cents for what its worth to u...
rellim
As for your Resonator, it works in two ways. The resonator is a tuning method for torque. When ur valves open it releases a pressure wave and the wave comes back up through the intake manifold and the resonator uses it to silence the incoming air.
You will find that if u take your resonator out and put a strait pipe in u change where your torque band hits. Normally it shifts the power band up to a higher rpm when you take out your resonator.
It's very true that the less restriction the less the engine has to work, but you give up your low end torque for high rpm hp. This is K&N's idea for all vehicles, Hp and torque you can only use at high rpm. So an in closed box is better than a filter out in the open or an oem box cut wide open.
I've tested the open filter against the boxed filter. The Boxed filter always did better.
As for exhaust, larger is not always better, muffler flow is everything, pipe size is not as important as muffler flow. For a tuned exhaust like the stock headers, a chambered muffler is best. As strait through or glass pack type is not going to get u much but noise.
A little rule to go by for sizing exhaust flow speaking in terms of aspirated engines.
Take your engine HP x 2.2 EX 236 x 2.2 = 519.2 So a muffler rated around 520 ish should be good.
So if you look at TRD intakes you will see they use a box to draw from and they use the velocity stack built into their intake tube. Starting out with large dia pipe and funneling down to a smaller size is a great way to increase velocity. As for the cat-back, looks like a three chambered muffler that has louvered pipe, just an educated guess.
Well that's my two cents for what its worth to u...
rellim
#118
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"The same reasoning lies behind the deckplate mod you don't increase the vacuum or volume but the engine does not have to work as hard to move the air meaning it can put more power to the ground..." -aviator
this is the correct answer. I deck plated my '97 and there is a noticeable difference above 3000 rpms. The difference isn't how much power my engine now has, but how much easier it has to work to create the same power. I can hear it and feel it working more efficiently.
this is the correct answer. I deck plated my '97 and there is a noticeable difference above 3000 rpms. The difference isn't how much power my engine now has, but how much easier it has to work to create the same power. I can hear it and feel it working more efficiently.
#119
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Hmmm..
just finished reading the entire thread.. very interesting indeed. Here's my two-cents worth:
if you are so desperate for horsepower that you need to do a 1-3ish hp mod, it's time to re-gear. No argument on the sound though!
if you are so desperate for horsepower that you need to do a 1-3ish hp mod, it's time to re-gear. No argument on the sound though!