Best way to bolt on bolt on sliders?
#22
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Originally Posted by bobzemuda
what do you think they mean by that...the bottom where it would be trying to pull away from the frame and strip out the screw? That's what I'd think.
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Originally Posted by bobzemuda
They also recomend tack welding.
"Note: For off-road use, we recommend placing a 1" long tack weld on each frame mounting plate for etra security"
what do you think they mean by that...the bottom where it would be trying to pull away from the frame and strip out the screw? That's what I'd think.
"Note: For off-road use, we recommend placing a 1" long tack weld on each frame mounting plate for etra security"
what do you think they mean by that...the bottom where it would be trying to pull away from the frame and strip out the screw? That's what I'd think.
First off I think "tack" welding them is not a bright idea for this reason. If you only put a "tack" on them (especially on the bottom-where it makes the most sence) junk/road grime/mud/ etc will get trapped between that plate , and the frame. Also since they would be "tacked" the frame & slider in that area would have to be free of paint , and there would be no way to paint behind the plate(ie stop rust).
I also dislike in a huge way using self tapping bolts. The proper way is with out question using the through frame sleeve method using normal nuts & bolts.
One other thing is that on the mounting plates when put up against the frame how close is the bottom of the lowest hole to the bottom of the frame? If it is closer than 1" inch this could lead to a crack in the near future.
I hope that I am not discouraging you here as I am really just trying to help. I see "improper" everything when it comes to welding/fabrication , and it is especially rampent in the 4x4 world. I had posted before on a slider topic about how there are "standards" to frame modifications , they can be had by going to the manufacturer , and requesting them. The businesses that normally do this would be 5th wheel hitch manufacturers , flat bed builders , special service box companies etc.
Those are really nice sliders though! Clean design. To bad Kongs isn't around anymore as I had bought some of their high steer arms , and could not be any happier.
Richard S.
Last edited by weldpro; 03-03-2004 at 11:00 AM.
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Originally Posted by Cebby
I thought you HAD to use self tappers on the gas tank side (near the tank) of the 3rd Gen. Something about not enough room between the framerail and the gas tank to through-bolt it. Hence part of the prevalence with welding on. I had read this quite some time ago, so the memory might be a bit fuzzy...
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Originally Posted by weldpro
The proper way is with out question using the through frame sleeve method using normal nuts & bolts.
Drilling through both sides of the frame, and bolting the sliders all the way through the two sides?
I've not decided how I'm going to attach these as of yet, and will probably sit on it for another week before I do. I only have a carport to work in, and it's raining, and the idea of doing it at night in the rain isn't appealing to me. Really, doing it at night isn't appealing to me as I only get one shot.
Bill
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Oh, and in response to two of the other question.
1. Yes, I'm still in St. Louis and will go wheeling with whomever.
2. About $425 as I recall shipped (I'd have to look at the credit card statement). Probably a bit too much, but these sliders were one of the first things I saw on Yotatech, and I really like the design/look of them. Having them in hand now, they're of tremendous quality, and they came powdercoated, so I'm sure I'll get over the cost in no time.
1. Yes, I'm still in St. Louis and will go wheeling with whomever.
2. About $425 as I recall shipped (I'd have to look at the credit card statement). Probably a bit too much, but these sliders were one of the first things I saw on Yotatech, and I really like the design/look of them. Having them in hand now, they're of tremendous quality, and they came powdercoated, so I'm sure I'll get over the cost in no time.
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Originally Posted by bobzemuda
What do you mean by through the frame sleeve?
Drilling through both sides of the frame, and bolting the sliders all the way through the two sides?
Bill
Drilling through both sides of the frame, and bolting the sliders all the way through the two sides?
Bill
There is another posibility I will try to explain. Same idea as above EXCEPT no welding. Now drill the outside frame rail the same OD as the sleeve , and the inner frame rail the same diameter as the bolt. Slide the bolt , and sleeve in together through the outside rail. No only the bolt should protrude through the inner rail , and viola same concept different style.
Now the no welding was not my idea rather a customer from this board *I think*. It seems as though this would be a excellent comprimise to fully welding the sleeves. I see no reason why this would not be acceptable with exception to making sure htat the bolt/sleeve holes are ATLEAST 1" from the bottom of the hole to the bottom of the frame.
Note* I still endorse only welding , and welding sleeves in(bolt on only) as the proper method for attachment. The customers' method is unproven by me so I cannot whole heartedly recommend it over afformentioned methods of attachment. I can say that the cstomers method would be a definate step in the right direction over using sheet metal screws (which again I am totally against). Hope this helps.
Richard S.
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Originally Posted by weldpro
Note* I still endorse only welding , and welding sleeves in(bolt on only) as the proper method for attachment.
Richard S.
Richard S.
Bill
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I bolted mine on with self tapers and it works fine but I also made a provision to do a bolt through if needed. I haven't had to because the pinch weld really does do most of the work. Make sure to leave a gap so you don't get an awful rattle though. A right angle drill and short 5/16? bit sure make it easier.
www.larsdennert.com/4runner/sliders
www.larsdennert.com/4runner/sliders
Last edited by LarsDennert; 03-03-2004 at 12:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by bobzemuda
What do you mean by through the frame sleeve?
Drilling through both sides of the frame, and bolting the sliders all the way through the two sides?
I've not decided how I'm going to attach these as of yet, and will probably sit on it for another week before I do. I only have a carport to work in, and it's raining, and the idea of doing it at night in the rain isn't appealing to me. Really, doing it at night isn't appealing to me as I only get one shot.
Bill
Drilling through both sides of the frame, and bolting the sliders all the way through the two sides?
I've not decided how I'm going to attach these as of yet, and will probably sit on it for another week before I do. I only have a carport to work in, and it's raining, and the idea of doing it at night in the rain isn't appealing to me. Really, doing it at night isn't appealing to me as I only get one shot.
Bill
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Originally Posted by bobzemuda
So, in your opinion, the "best" thing to do, would be to remove the powdercoat on the mounting plates, and weld the plates to the frame?
Bill
Bill
Bottom line to me is this: If you have a money tree , and really like the bolt on idea by all means do it that way as it is the absolute cleanest way to put them on . However if you are lacking a money tree , and dont like spending big $$$$ just to install a set of sliders but you do want then on there in a proper manner then by all means get them welded on (cheap, easy, super strong).
Take care,
Richard S.
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I was a little concerned with the tack welding possibly letting in gunk and such- but out here in vegas its not much of a concern. I took some time and bolted on mine....first i held the sliders (exactly the same as yours) in place with Cclamps and spray painted the holes...took the sliders down and drilled the holes at the painted spots..the top holes were off angle a bit but my goal was to get them 'temporaraly bolted on' and also get them tack welded..
took a little lining up but i eventually got them in place and had em tack welded.
took a little lining up but i eventually got them in place and had em tack welded.
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For his needs I think Bill can get away without sleeving though. Since his sliders are going on a pretty new truck I don't think he's going to be pounding on it like a rock buggy. The sliders are only there for the occasional boulder that he (relatively) slowly drops on. I bet he can get away with through bolts on the bottom with grade 8 washers. A better solution would be to use a backing plate, but that would require more expense to get it cut at the welders.
I don't really like the idea of drilling a 1" hole in the frame and not welding it. When you weld the sleeve in, it minimizes the stress riser in the frame since it's an integral part of the frame. A giant 1" hole is a huge stress riser in a what...5" tall frame.
I don't really like the idea of drilling a 1" hole in the frame and not welding it. When you weld the sleeve in, it minimizes the stress riser in the frame since it's an integral part of the frame. A giant 1" hole is a huge stress riser in a what...5" tall frame.
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Originally Posted by Nobody
but out here in vegas its not much of a concern.
You should have seen how rusted up the FJ40 I briefly had was.
But then, you can see for yourself.
http://fj40.zemudaville.com/
Bill
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I could have welded all the way around the plate but I believe that it (welding) stresses the frame to much..if I was concerned about rust I would just run a bead of silicone.. I think using through bolts are a good idea-just a lot more work.
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Originally Posted by Nobody
I could have welded all the way around the plate but I believe that it (welding) stresses the frame to much...
Richard S.
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Originally Posted by weldpro
I have to respond to your comment. I am wondering what your basis for that opinion is? If you look at all of these frames they are entirely welded. Contrary to misguided heresay our frames receive NO post heat treatment or residual stress relieving . It is an acceptable practice to weld on a light duty truck frame using all common welding procedures granted one has knowledge of the standards set forth by the industry.
Richard S.
Richard S.
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Originally Posted by 44Runner
I would think most people weld them on because is is easier and WAY better. I wouldn't trust bolt on sliders. I know mine aren't going anywhere and that is how I like it.
I agree that I wouldn't have confidence in slamming sliders if they were only held there with self-tapping screws, but I realize that Roger B. has pretty much proven that it's OK to do that despite that it doesn't look right.
I have far more confidence in the strength of my bolt-on solution since I've used much thicker steel for the brackets and it's not totally relying on the bolts either. Plus vertical welds and plates would increase the chance of cracking the frame vertically there, so I'm glad I've gotten away from that. I replaced each side of the sliders separately as I cracked them off the frame. My new bolt-on solution wraps around 3 sides of the frame, so it's much stronger, fewer disadvantages, and more advantages, compared to my weld-on solution. I explained it more at the top of the page here:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/sliders/
Now I just have to hope that the frame is still strong enough where it was welded since I've changed the internal "structure" of the metal where it was welded.