Well considering that since Nitrogen is cheap about 2 dollars a tire , that it's worth it to me to try it. As far as believing someone who typed an article on the internet or my client that has giving me thousands of dollars of business over the years, I'll believe him. So what ever , it really doesn't matter. I was just stating an opinion. If you don't agree, Oh well . and another thing My Modified Yota truck is not an ordinary everyday car, I've done thousands of dollars of mods to it , it's not a Stock toyota, by any means. I think in the Mazda article , they're correct that nitrogen for a passenger car is not needed, but a Semi truck with many thousands of lbs of weight and a rock crawlin, hill jumpin, Digger is a different story. So I'll run it in my heavily modified yota and you don't run it in your ordinary everyday runner and will both be happy !!!

 

as far as the PM, I wouldn't have sent it if I wasn't serious. The rubicon is awesome in the snow !!!

 

If he's putting N2 in semi's that travel insane numbers of miles, then I might buy that. But not for his chevy full size. Also, I'd say your truck is closer to a normal truck than a semi in the context of N2 in tires.

So are you planning on carrying a N2 tank...kinda like a powertank? I mean every time you air down you gotta refill it with N2 again and that could get expensive.

 

Digger, I gotta side with the "chill" crew. I really thought "equal" when I read the title. PLUS being a skeptic, the cost and safety of Argon and/or Nitrogen almost made me reply with a request for more info on how those perform under temperature.

In short it was all very new stuff and a silly joke bringing it down to base level cut the tension!

Now were all EQUAL!!!!!!!!!

 

OOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

only read the 1st page and replied....

Sorry to all for being "out of Sync"

ko

 

You can mix air with Nitrogen , it won't hurt, as far as the airing down issue, for having a tank with it , wouldn't be that expensive. again about $ 2 dollars a tire, thats cheaper than eating a dinner at Max's in San Ramon, off of crow canyon ct. Plus , if you live in San Ramon I think you could afford to spend 8 dollars to refill after wheelin' , thats cheap ! especially if thats the only expense after the ' con , etc. not like bustin' something, wheelin' ...

I don't know why you think it's a bad idea or at least won't consider it a good possibility that it may be better than air ...

 

Here are some excerpts from the subject :

The nitrogen molecule is larger than the oxygen molecule. The oxygen molecule will generally permeate 3 to 4 times faster than nitrogen.

This being the case, tires would stay inflated much longer. They would also be less prone to temp changes because of the lack of humidity. Humidity could also cause oxidation issues with the rim and tire. All of these issues could save money.

A Fresh Idea That Keeps Tires in Shape

Feb 17, 2005 5:09 pm US/Mountain

It’s important to keep your tires in good shape. Michelle King has this Fresh Idea to stay inflated.

It’s a secret that race car drivers have been using for years to keep their tires in shape.

Even commercial airlines use it to ensure safe landings on the runway.

So what's the secret? It’s called nitrogen!

Researchers have discovered that using nitrogen instead of compressed air for conventional cars helps tires go farther and last longer.

“The closer you can maintain the tire pressure to that recommended set pressure by the manufacturer, you're going to have better tread wear, you're going to have better fuel mileage, you're going to have improved handling,” said Kevin Rohlwig of the Tire Industry Association.

“Nitrogen actually stabilizes a tire's inflation pressure much longer,” said Robert Moyer of Costco.

Research shows that nitrogen doesn't cause rubber to breakdown as quickly as air and because nitrogen is basically dry–it's nearly impossible for moisture to seep in and corrode your tires.

“If you're inflating with nitrogen you're going to eliminate that problem. There's not going to be any moisture in the tire,” said Rohlwig.

Only a small handful of dealers offer nitrogen filled tires and some of them charge $5 a tire to fill you up.

 

And Hers the scientific view .sorry it long , but it's what you asked for RobinHood150 !

In the old days, we simply said, "It wore out". These days we look more deeply into the hows and whys. With tires, particularly RV tires, there are some specific chemical changes that occur within the tire as time goes on that cause the tire to "deteriorate".

Tires are made of a rubber polymer, Sulfur, and Carbon. These chemicals are combined at high heat (vulcanization) to form divalent chemical bonds between the substances to give the desired characteristics of elasticity, flexibility, durability, and strength. There are also other additives whose purpose is to slow down tire deterioration. There are also "belts" of synthetic material and/or steel wires to give additional strength.

Heat (Under inflation) Some of the factors which cause deterioration have been known for some time. And some factors are currently under investigation and are still in the "theory stage". One of the most significant factors in tire deterioration is under inflation. This puts stress on the rubber in several ways, the most important being overheating. This was seen in the Ford Explorer-Firestone tire separation phenomenon which we remember from a few years ago. As all of us RVers know, heavier loading of the vehicle requires higher tire pressures, or said another way, overloading an already under inflated tire dramatically compounds the problem. And overloading a properly inflated tire beyond it's maximum weight rating is probably the most common cause for RV tire failure, since weights by the RV Safety Foundation show 60% of RVs to be overloaded on at least one corner.

Ultraviolet light Another reported factor in tire deterioration is ultraviolet light. This comes from the sun and its energy causes chemical changes within the rubber. It is not entirely clear to me exactly how important UV damage is, but some of us try to cover our tires when parked anyway. One of the additives to tires is a wax that blocks UV light. But to be effective, the compound must work it's way to the surface of the sidewall of the tire. This happens when the sidewall is flexed and heated during normal driving. But it does not get replenished to the surface when the tire is sitting still. Since only a small percentage of RVs I see have tire covers, there are a large number of outside dual tires with UV damage. This should result in a higher frequency of outside dual tire failure. However, it is reported that the inside dual fails more often then the outside (probably because it carries more weight due to road crowning).

Rusting Another form of deterioration that occurs is rusting of the steel belts. To get rust, we must have iron (steel), oxygen, and water. Now it has been claimed for some time that the water gets in from outside. That small cracks or cuts or damage to the rubber will allow water to be absorbed through the rubber into the steel belts to start the rusting process. Most of us are aware of this concept in the form of a recommendation that we use some type of a "vapor barrier" under all our tires. I had one tire manufacturer tell me that asphalt is bad and cement is OK, and the next one tell me just the opposite. I have always had some trouble with the concept of the tire sucking up water from the ground, but my opinion and the facts may not be the same. Apparently the move is to coat the steel wires with copper to prevent rusting (one report) or brass to improve rubber adherence to the belts and prevent tread separation (another source).

But another theory is that the water comes from inside the tire. Air is made up essentially of 20% oxygen, 80% Nitrogen, a minute amount of other gases, plus a bit of water vapor (depending on where you live, it may be more or less). Now to fill a tire, you need air under pressure. An air compressor takes a large volume of air, and compresses it into a small volume. This means you end up with a large amount of water vapor in the air that you put into your tires. And that water vapor is under 80 (or more) pounds per square inch of pressure. Although the liner of the tire is designed to prevent things from being pushed through it into the rubber, the liner does not work perfectly, nor forever. So the current theory is that the water responsible for rusting the steel belts comes from the compressed air.

Oxidation The chemical changes that occur to the rubber polymer during the manufacturing process produces a number of bivalent chemical bonds between the molecules. The primary change that occurs during deterioration of a tire is the creation of more chemical bonds between the molecules as time goes on, a process called oxidation. This is a bad thing because then the rubber becomes stiff (not flexible) and hard, which will lead to tread separation, blowouts and disintegration. Keep in mind that the speed of any chemical reaction doubles with a rise in temperature of 10 degrees Centigrade (approximately 18 degrees Fahrenheit). The tire does not care whether the temperature rise is the result of under inflation/overloading or hot outdoor weather.

Oxygen is a relatively weak chemical oxidant. It will combine with other substances (such as iron, to form rust), but it happens relatively slowly. Ozone is a strong chemical oxidant. It is formed in the atmosphere by lightening (or electric motors, like those on air compressors) and UV radiation. It's molecule has 3 atoms of oxygen as opposed to the usual 2 atoms of ordinary oxygen. So the current thinking is that the presence of ozone (and other oxidants) inside and to a lesser extent outside, the tire may be the prime culprit in tire deterioration (the making of excessive bonds between rubber polymer molecules). As with water vapor, it seems more likely for ozone and other oxidants to be forced into the tire from the inside (high pressure) than to be "invading" the tire from the outside. But "seems more likely" may not equal a fact.

So during manufacturing, antiozonants and antioxidant chemical compounds are added. These appear to slow the oxidative process. But they get used up in the process of neutralizing the oxidants. They also seem to work better when the tire is flexed and heated during use.

Nitrogen The next step in the attempts to slow deterioration was the introduction of pure Nitrogen for inflation of tires. This has become more practical with the advent of modern membrane technology, whereby air is taken in and passed through a semipermeable membrane where the oxygen, ozone and water vapor escape out through the membrane, and nearly pure nitrogen goes into the tank. Nitrogen inflation has been used for many years in airplanes, race cars, bicycle racing, military and fire vehicles, and a few trucking firms. Less pressure change during a race (better handling), cooler running tires, longer tire life and fewer sudden tire failure result. One trucking company who runs over 2 million miles a day averaged 35 failures per day. After inflating with Nitrogen, they are having 5 failures per day, three quarters of which are road hazard damages.

Nitrogen is totally inert, that is it is very reluctant to get involved in chemical reactions. With nitrogen inflation there is no oxygen, ozone or water vapor inside the tire. Probably the biggest benefit for the trucking industry is that nitrogen diffuses through the tire more slowly than oxygen. This means that tires hold their pressure longer (although I almost never loose air from my tires). So there is less likely to be under inflation with nitrogen. Tires also run cooler with nitrogen, and the rise in tire pressure after driving is less (air filled tires went from 95 to 120 psi, Nitrogen tires went from 95 to 100). Most of the temperature and pressure rises are felt to be caused by the water vapor. A number tire dealers, truck stops, Wal-Marts and Costcos around the country are providing nitrogen inflation. Nitrogen is not recommended for old tires, but should be considered for new ones (or a few months old??). In an urgent situation you can add air to a nitrogen filled tire and replace the Nitrogen when you get home.

 

Its not better than air, not for your purposes, and especially not if you wheel regularly. "Heavily modified" rig or not, it doesnt matter. If you want to believe that air causes your tires to disentigrate from the inside out, and that because of miniscule differences in expansion rates nitrogen will give you better fuel economy, fine. You spend your $2 per tire every time you air up. Ill save the $8 and fill them with ~75% nitrogen every time i air up, for free. And not listen to the money flow out of the valvestem every single time i air down.

 

well again what ever ....if you don't agree, move on , plus I thought this was a "Yota" forum ......I left the last 4 by forum because of Chevy infiltraitors. Can't you guys stay on the chevy boards ? Besides you've missed the point, about using Equal or eqivalent in combanation with Nitrogen makes for a longer lasting , better running tire. Your logic is like saying ... when the fuel injection process came out and you saying , no no , carbs are still better and more precise, when we all know thats incorrect. Here is something that might be better for your tires and your shutting the idea down, just to be stubborn, I guess. Why did you lift your truck ? is it because it would allow your truck to be taller and have bigger tires on it than stock, thus be able to wheel better ? or why did you lock your pumpkins, is it because you could get better traction than with the stock open diffs........so whats the difference here when it clearly is better for your tires ???

 

Because I live in San Ramon, I can't afford anything! $2 sounds expensive to me when air is free.

It's not that I think it's a bad idea, I just disagreed with your original statement or rather, you're client's statement. N2 is perfectly fine to use in tires, there's just other things I'd rather spend money on or worry about. I mean, some people think that using CO2 is bad because there's the possibility of forming carbonic acid inside tires. But yet, most people don't worry about it and I've never heard of a tire failure that's been proven to be because of carbonic acid. Using N2 is splitting hairs. You'll see a bigger improvement in mileage and safety by running at 30psi rather than 25.

Now, if you need to use N2 because of the equal, well that's a different story.

Of course you can mix air with nitrogen, air is 80% nitrogen anyway. But if you air up with air on the trail, you're defeating the purpose of inflating your tires with $8 of nitrogen.

 

especially when at least my tires are near $ 200 a piece, and they wear out fast enough.....heres a way that will make them last longer .....duh .... sounds like a no brainer to me ....but again thats just my opinion !!!

 

well so when you get back to home from wheeling, just fill em back up with Nitrogen for 8 bucks. I guess it seems dumb if your dropping air pressure everyday, but I'm not , maybe once a month, ok so $ 96 a year , to save wear on my $ 200 a piece tires and make them last longer ..... hmmmmm ...yep still sounds cheaper than running through the tires fast , like I do

 

But you'd have to purge out all the air and moisture first...more money.

I seriously doubt you're going to see any appreciable change in wear with your run of the mill 4x4. You're into 4wheeling, tires are what you pay to play.

If you run N2 in your left tires and air in your right tires (no equal in either of them) and come back in a year or two and show me there's a huge difference in wear, I'll put N2 in my tires.

 

as far as running 30 instead of 25 ........my yota calls for 25 in the front and 28 in the rear , so I run 25 all the way around .......I would imagine that the manufacturer is probably right about this one , although I guess they and myself could be wrong ...

 

If you think I'm going to seriously consider your above test , you must be " on the Pipe" , tonight....go ahead set down the bong, and realize I'm not going to do your test. If you don't agree , thats fine ..... Move on !!!

 

you don't have to purge the air and moisture out , the nitrogen will dry the tire out after you let all the "air" out , then fill back with N2 and your fine . Remember the N2 is inert and Dry, so there is no moisture happening in a N2 filled tire, and since it's heavier than air .ummmmmmmm , it'll dry the tire

 

Wait, I thought you meant fill up at the trail with a compressor then go home and refill the tires with N2. If you did that, you'd have to purge to get the moisture out.

So you're saying don't air up at the trail with a compressor? Then drive from the rubicon to your garage on the freeway at 10psi?

If you can think of another test to conclusively prove that YOUR tires wear better with N2 than air, be my guest. I'm an engineer, I believe in data and hard numbers.

 

and I guess the manufacturer reccommendation , ofcourse is for stock tires, however I used to run my 35's with 30lbs in them , and the center of the tire wore out faster than the outside , meaning over inflation, so I run them down at the rcommended value based on the weight of the truck and they wear more evenly ...

 

What width tires and what width wheels? That could be part of the problem?