Any evironmental Whackos out there who could answer this?
#23
Registered User
Go slow and remove weight and it will get insane mpg. Strip the entire interior minus seats and dash, remove heavy tires, rims and other junk. Drive slow, really slow and I bet you see about 25mpg or better.
#24
Good thread we have going here. Obviously, as we all can see, there is a good deal of politics to wade through on our way to efficient and cost effective fuel alternatives.
The main problem with gasoline, and diesel for that matter although to a lesser degree, is that a very large (40%) of the fuel is wasted in the internal combustion process. Most is wasted as heat. BMW is the only manufacturer that has been working on capturing the heat--converting it to steam--to add power back to the vehicle. I think they use a turbine with mechanical connection but it could just as easily drive a generator on a hybrid.
Some have touched on weight. This is a big one but it is also closely tied to the safety of our trucks. I have a family and I don't plan to put all of us into a 1500 pound egg carton on wheels until everyone else is doing it first.
But here is the big one and the option I get the most excited about. ALL OF OUR VEHICLES CAN BE CONVERTED TO RUN ON HYDROGEN!
All that is required is an extra injector that will deliver the hydrogen to the EFI system, regulator, plumbing for the 2000+ psi H2 gas, and a storage tank. The good news is that H2 is becoming more widely available at stations around the country.
It gets better. A vehicle that runs on Hydrogen will also run on even more commonly available compressed natural gas CNG. But it gets even better. Even after the conversion, the truck will still be able to run on gasoline and all of the original parts are left in place. So pick your fuel and go. Switch between them as price/availability dictate and feel all giggly as you crawl down the trail.
In the case of Hydrogen, it is entirely possible that you could build your own hydrogen generator at home. It basically will use electricity to separate hydrogen from tap water and compress it up to several thousand psi. This could just as easily be done off the grid with solar and pay for itself very quickly.
Most states will reimburse the owner for the hydrogen/CNG conversion. I have heard that Colorado will pay up to 10 grand or so of the conversion.
I know I am considering it. I have no room for tanks it my 4Runner so I may end up using a trailer to hold the high pressure tanks.
The main problem with gasoline, and diesel for that matter although to a lesser degree, is that a very large (40%) of the fuel is wasted in the internal combustion process. Most is wasted as heat. BMW is the only manufacturer that has been working on capturing the heat--converting it to steam--to add power back to the vehicle. I think they use a turbine with mechanical connection but it could just as easily drive a generator on a hybrid.
Some have touched on weight. This is a big one but it is also closely tied to the safety of our trucks. I have a family and I don't plan to put all of us into a 1500 pound egg carton on wheels until everyone else is doing it first.
But here is the big one and the option I get the most excited about. ALL OF OUR VEHICLES CAN BE CONVERTED TO RUN ON HYDROGEN!
All that is required is an extra injector that will deliver the hydrogen to the EFI system, regulator, plumbing for the 2000+ psi H2 gas, and a storage tank. The good news is that H2 is becoming more widely available at stations around the country.
It gets better. A vehicle that runs on Hydrogen will also run on even more commonly available compressed natural gas CNG. But it gets even better. Even after the conversion, the truck will still be able to run on gasoline and all of the original parts are left in place. So pick your fuel and go. Switch between them as price/availability dictate and feel all giggly as you crawl down the trail.
In the case of Hydrogen, it is entirely possible that you could build your own hydrogen generator at home. It basically will use electricity to separate hydrogen from tap water and compress it up to several thousand psi. This could just as easily be done off the grid with solar and pay for itself very quickly.
Most states will reimburse the owner for the hydrogen/CNG conversion. I have heard that Colorado will pay up to 10 grand or so of the conversion.
I know I am considering it. I have no room for tanks it my 4Runner so I may end up using a trailer to hold the high pressure tanks.
#26
I hope I don't get flamed too bad on this one because I can't find the docs to back this up with.... But as much as I'm for "alternitive energy" (sun, wind, waves,) I remember getting info regarding the "biofuels" (corn)....
Yes, it may burn cleaner in the end, but if you take into account what it takes to CREATE the Ethanal it's actually WORSE for the enviroment.
Starting with the farms, which use pesticides to grow the crop, the farm equipment used to maintain, harvest, and transport the crop. And then more trucks to transport the crop to refineries. Once it’s there it takes more energy to produce the Ethanol then it does turning fossil fuels into gas.
I even heard that if it wasn’t for the government subsidizing major $$$ the cost of making Ethanol would be so high that no one could afford to buy it. Trust me when I tell you this, if you knew how much natural gas is used every day at an oil refinery you would fill your shorts! And I’ve been told it takes even more to make Ethanol.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for advancement and I care about this earth more then a lot of other people out there. But getting away from fossil fuels on a large scale isn't fast and cheap. People have expected the oil companies and the government to step up and come up with the next generation of energy. Oil companies are just that "Oil Companies". If they choose to diversify and look into other areas, great! I love to see that!!! But you also need to look at your local power companies. They can put up wind turbines, tidal bueys, current turbines, solor panels as well. Change has to start with the little guy and move upward. In the next few years I bet there will be great steps in the technology behind those ideas and the cost and rewards will be more balanced.
Ok... let the flaming begin (I'm sure glad I'm out of town for the next few days... LOL) Really though, if someone has the data on anything above I would love to see it again.
Yes, it may burn cleaner in the end, but if you take into account what it takes to CREATE the Ethanal it's actually WORSE for the enviroment.
Starting with the farms, which use pesticides to grow the crop, the farm equipment used to maintain, harvest, and transport the crop. And then more trucks to transport the crop to refineries. Once it’s there it takes more energy to produce the Ethanol then it does turning fossil fuels into gas.
I even heard that if it wasn’t for the government subsidizing major $$$ the cost of making Ethanol would be so high that no one could afford to buy it. Trust me when I tell you this, if you knew how much natural gas is used every day at an oil refinery you would fill your shorts! And I’ve been told it takes even more to make Ethanol.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for advancement and I care about this earth more then a lot of other people out there. But getting away from fossil fuels on a large scale isn't fast and cheap. People have expected the oil companies and the government to step up and come up with the next generation of energy. Oil companies are just that "Oil Companies". If they choose to diversify and look into other areas, great! I love to see that!!! But you also need to look at your local power companies. They can put up wind turbines, tidal bueys, current turbines, solor panels as well. Change has to start with the little guy and move upward. In the next few years I bet there will be great steps in the technology behind those ideas and the cost and rewards will be more balanced.
Ok... let the flaming begin (I'm sure glad I'm out of town for the next few days... LOL) Really though, if someone has the data on anything above I would love to see it again.
With people the world over starving to death and people here at home struggling to pay for groceries, burning up our food supply in our trucks and SUV's is pretty damn selfish.
And consider that we are sitting on upwards of 50 years of fossil fuels (at projected demands no less!) that we can tap domestically, ethanol is positively insane.
#27
They are kind of expensive, 2-3 million a piece (installed), but they come in a variety of flavors. Such as General Electric, Suzlon, Vestas, Mitsubishi, just to name a few.
i can answer alot of question about them if ya have any.
i can answer alot of question about them if ya have any.
#29
Contributing Member
PLEASE GOD, LET THEM ALL KNOW I'M JOKING!!!!
#30
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#31
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I owned a 98 Jetta and had a friend with a 98 passat both had the TDI Turbo Diesel with 5 speed and would get 40 - 46 mpg on our flat west texas highways.The Jetta was surprisingly spunky, The Passat was a little heavier and had a little hotter engine it ran pretty good. plenty of torque with the 5 speed.
I have always thought this engine is perfect for a small pickup/ 4runner etc... and should get 30 plus mpg. Clearly auto manufacturers could do better!
I have always thought this engine is perfect for a small pickup/ 4runner etc... and should get 30 plus mpg. Clearly auto manufacturers could do better!
#32
Registered User
I have had this idea for a long, long time: When the day comes that they invent a car that runs off trash or poo we win. We have endless piles of the stuff and it will never ever go away (specially poo). Sadly I am not trying to be disgusting, butdead serious.
#33
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Here are some stats I've heard about ethanol:
1: one tank of ethanol in an SUV (around 26 gal) takes enough corn it could feed one person for a year.
2: It takes 3 units of fossil fuel to produce 1 unit of ethanol.
3: If you wanted to run all of England's cars on ethanol you would have to cover the entire island with corn, that includes roads and cities.
I will never claim to be very smart, but the government must think I'm real dumb to think this is a good solution.
1: one tank of ethanol in an SUV (around 26 gal) takes enough corn it could feed one person for a year.
2: It takes 3 units of fossil fuel to produce 1 unit of ethanol.
3: If you wanted to run all of England's cars on ethanol you would have to cover the entire island with corn, that includes roads and cities.
I will never claim to be very smart, but the government must think I'm real dumb to think this is a good solution.
#36
Contributing Member
Here are some stats I've heard about ethanol:
1: one tank of ethanol in an SUV (around 26 gal) takes enough corn it could feed one person for a year.
2: It takes 3 units of fossil fuel to produce 1 unit of ethanol.
3: If you wanted to run all of England's cars on ethanol you would have to cover the entire island with corn, that includes roads and cities.
I will never claim to be very smart, but the government must think I'm real dumb to think this is a good solution.
1: one tank of ethanol in an SUV (around 26 gal) takes enough corn it could feed one person for a year.
2: It takes 3 units of fossil fuel to produce 1 unit of ethanol.
3: If you wanted to run all of England's cars on ethanol you would have to cover the entire island with corn, that includes roads and cities.
I will never claim to be very smart, but the government must think I'm real dumb to think this is a good solution.
#37
It takes 3 units of fossil fuel to produce 1 unit of ethanol.
There are also technologies coming on line that can convert various forms of cellulose into gasoline with fairly low energy inputs. Virent is one such company. Shell Oil is now a major investor in Virent. I'd keep my eye on them - they are scaling up commercial production. Their product is essentially gasoline and other petroleum products, so it fits into the infrastructure.
I see corn kernel ethanol as a disruptive technology that opens up possibilities and loosens fossil based petroleum's grip. If we expect the replacements for fossil fuels to be perfect out of the box, we'll never see a change.
MadCityRich
#38
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I owned a 98 Jetta and had a friend with a 98 passat both had the TDI Turbo Diesel with 5 speed and would get 40 - 46 mpg on our flat west texas highways.The Jetta was surprisingly spunky, The Passat was a little heavier and had a little hotter engine it ran pretty good. plenty of torque with the 5 speed.
I have always thought this engine is perfect for a small pickup/ 4runner etc... and should get 30 plus mpg. Clearly auto manufacturers could do better!
I have always thought this engine is perfect for a small pickup/ 4runner etc... and should get 30 plus mpg. Clearly auto manufacturers could do better!
#39
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People starve because of their government's policy.
#40
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Call me ignorant but I seriously don't see how corn effects people who are starving? Unless you are pointing out the fact that many farmers who raised other crops are turning to raising corn becuase it pays better?
*Just making point
on the other hand, while farmers are abandoning their other vegetables for corn to stay in business I promote it because oil is product hat will runout. The world is all fine in dandy today but tomorrow we have that much less oil on a inevitable path to the depletion of gasoline as we know it. Something has to change because oil will run out... and before it does it will be to expensive for the world to operate as it does today.
It's hitting us HARD in the wallets now with our vehicles but just think about the way the world communicates. The way our packages are shipped. The airline industry is hit harder. Things happen about 5x slower with aero-technology because of the insanely rediculous cost of regulating the changes. A crude example is a CD-player in a jetliner, a $75 generic cd player can easily cost thousands for an airplane because of all the regulations that permit its installation. ... meanwhile our global economy highly revolves around air-transportation. Be it consumer goods, food, people travelling and just plain package shipping.
I support the people who support changes in fuel-sources.
Now if we could just fix our really effed up economy and become less dependent on the world (i speak from an AMERICAN point of view) then that would be a great step in the right direction. Dare i say we cut the imbelical chord that binds us to the wonderful perfect nation of China?
*Just making point
on the other hand, while farmers are abandoning their other vegetables for corn to stay in business I promote it because oil is product hat will runout. The world is all fine in dandy today but tomorrow we have that much less oil on a inevitable path to the depletion of gasoline as we know it. Something has to change because oil will run out... and before it does it will be to expensive for the world to operate as it does today.
It's hitting us HARD in the wallets now with our vehicles but just think about the way the world communicates. The way our packages are shipped. The airline industry is hit harder. Things happen about 5x slower with aero-technology because of the insanely rediculous cost of regulating the changes. A crude example is a CD-player in a jetliner, a $75 generic cd player can easily cost thousands for an airplane because of all the regulations that permit its installation. ... meanwhile our global economy highly revolves around air-transportation. Be it consumer goods, food, people travelling and just plain package shipping.
I support the people who support changes in fuel-sources.
Now if we could just fix our really effed up economy and become less dependent on the world (i speak from an AMERICAN point of view) then that would be a great step in the right direction. Dare i say we cut the imbelical chord that binds us to the wonderful perfect nation of China?