98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

So, we're quitting for the night and probably won't get much done tomorrow. I'm still feeling sick and my buddy the mechanic (math teacher by day) has to tutor all day tomorrow. We're probably shooting for Saturday to get the new motor in.

Here's some pics and info on the progress we made today, which took a bit longer than we had hoped.


I picked up all this stuff from the dealership today, which will all go on Saturday hopefully. There's valve cover gaskets, plenum gaskets, oil cooler o-rings, oil pan FIPG, and some of those little black grill clips that are so easy to break when taking off the grill. (Yeah, I'll be excited when all I'm worried about is putting the grill back on)



And, here's the goodies from the timing belt kit: timing belt, idler roller, tensioner roller, front crankshaft seal, front camshaft seals, water pump and gasket, tensioner, thermostat and gasket. It was supposed to also have an a/c belt, alternator belt, and power steering belt, but I don't see them in the box. I guess I'll be making another run to the dealership when I can.



Here's what the old motor looked like under the valve covers.



Here's the underside of the valve covers. It may be hard to make out with the lighting, but there was major chocolate milkshake going on.



After taking about an hour to figure out how to do it, we got the bolts out of the flywheel. What a huge PITA without air tools. I'm not looking forward to putting those back in. We had a couple pesky exhaust bolts that were hanging it up, and when those were off, it slid forward, up, and out fairly easily.






Empty engine compartment = almost halfway there!



And, there's the two motors on the garage floor. Out with the old, in with the new (old).



So, that's where we stopped tonight. We still need to swap over the electronics, do the timing belt/water pump, swap the motor mounts, some brackets, and other stuff, and we should be ready to put the newer motor back in.

maachine

oh right. sorry i thought that first pick of the engine was the new engine inside the truck. i should start reading posts before leaving comments.

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

So, back at it again today.

We started with getting the crankshaft pulley off of both of the motors. The one on the Case Used Parts motor looked rusty, and the old one looked better. The one on my old motor came off fairly easily, but the Case motor one was tougher. I made a tool like others have shown with some 3/8" bolts and a 2x4, but we bent the bolts and broke that in short order. My buddy just got a new compressor and his ~300ft/lb impact wrench wouldn't budge it. We ended up holding the flywheel and getting it off with a breaker bar.

With the bolt off, we used some longer 5/16" bolts and this tool to get the pulley off:



We swapped over exhaust stuffs, again because ones on my original motor looked better. The covers on the Case motor were dented on both sides:



After swapping exhaust stuff, we moved on to valve covers and teardown to do the timing belt work. Case motor looks dirty, but we'll see how it looks under valve covers:



Valve cover off. Wow, this doesn't look good:



All gunked in the underside of the covers:



Close-up of the top left of open area. Completely caked-on, an inch thick or more in areas.



So, I guess we get to cleaning. After a trip to the parts store for some cleaner and whatnot, we started scraping chunks of this stuff out:



After lots and lots and lots of scraping, scooping, whatnot:



I spent about two hours with toothbrushes cleaning all the little nooks and crannies. Here's some progress:



Final product: Not perfect, but much, much better:



So, after a bunch of cleaning, we're about to hoist it up and do some timing belt work. Before that, we look to swapping the motor mounts. Motor mount on Case motor was badly bent and rubber was all chewed up. Looks like they got rough with the forklift:



We took the bolts off the mount, and as it's coming off, we realize the bracket isn't just broken:



The damn mounting holes on that side in the block are completely broken: Here's the lower hole with part of the top lip broken off:



Here's the upper hole with a whole slice of the top lip broken off: You can see it's rusted too. This isn't something we did, this was broken in the warehouse. Unfortunately, with the way it was broken, it was almost impossible to tell when we picked it up. The broken lip parts fell off as we took off the bracket.



So, after we spent all this time cleaning the motor up, we were really pissed about the broken mounting holes. I drove about 4 hours to get this motor and borrowed a friend's truck to get it. We wanted to see if it'd be possible to use it anyway.

I got some washers and the upper mount that's completely broken off still has about 6 complete threads, so I put enough washers on the bolt to take the place of the lip in the block and threaded it down tight. The other bolt is sitting on the partially broken lip and is tight against it. We really shook on the mount, shook the whole motor, and it seemed like it was pretty solid. That said, I don't feel very good about it. I know our test is not the same as going 80mph.

So, YT, what's your take? Is this really risky?

We went ahead and did the timing belt/water pump, swapped the oil cooler, got the oil pan back on, and everything else ready to go. The motor is on the hoist, waiting to go back in tomorrow.

So, we're going to put it in tomorrow. Assuming all else went well, I guess we'll see how big of a problem this mount situation may be.

If I have to execute on the warranty on this motor and go back and get another, we're talking about another day to drive back up to get it and back, and tear down the work we've already done to reclaim parts we've installed. Then probably another day to get work done on the new motor we get (it'd probably need a clean-up too). Add in about $100 in gas and misc. cleaners/parts/etc.

Getting a new, presumably intact, motor wouldn't quite make me whole again, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I guess if I had to, I could go to small claims court.

So, what's your take YT? Is this motor workable, or is this a really bad idea to use this with the mounts as they are? Any opinions are appreciated.

Thanks for reading!

rworegon

Seeing the condition of that motor, I would not use it. It has lived a hard life. The motor mount likely was broke in a wreck if there are other broken parts on the engine such as fan blades. My 0.02.
Good luck.

maachine

that oil sludge scares me. cant tell what oil passages inside the engine are clogged. take it back, get a refund. might be wise to break the valve cover off before buying the next engine, just to make sure. sucks man, hopefully those guys will work with you in replacing that engine.

or....

find a shop that could weld some pipe in place of those mounting holes, then rethread it. not sure if welding on a block like that is a bad idea though, could warp something. not sure. and about the oil sludge. if and when you get that engine running, might be wise to run mobil1 for a while since it has high detergents in the oil. or you could run some sea foam in the oil to clean it up.

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, the fan was broken when I got it. So, I'm thinking you're right.

I'm really frustrated at this point. I've spent several days now, and hundreds of dollars on this new motor. Ir's sitting on the hoist, all cleanup up, swapped over, and ready to go in. I, like you guys, really don't feel comfortable with those damaged mounts.

I doubt they're just going to agree to give me a new motor plus money for gas/parts, etc., so I'm not sure that we'll even come to an agreement regarding settling this situation. I don't want to have to to go the legal route, that makes this whole issue a much bigger deal.

This really sucks. Haha. I'm starting to wish I'd just have parted the rig out and looked for a new car. I'm laughing because I'm about to go crazy.

maachine

call them and see what they say, they may be really cool about it. if you are worried about internal damage due to a wreck, pull the plugs and turn the engine over with a wrench. you shouldnt have much reisitance at all, pull the valve covers off and make sure the cams are turning properly, and listen and feel for any grinding or anything weird. if you dont hear or feel anything, i'd say you are good to go. cant imagine a local low over head shop would charge much to repair those mounts.

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I'm going to call them tomorrow as soon as they open. Do you think a repair of these mounts is feasible? Is that a safe thing to do? I did some Googling last night and people expressed concerns about welding on a block soaked with oil, and whether that'd be secure. If fixing the mounts is possible, I guess that'd be the best solution.

We've turned the motor over a bunch of times. Initially, there was one spot where we'd meet resistance, but pushed through it, and the motor turns over fine so far since. When we were cleaning the valves, I had some tape over the intake holes and we turned it a few times and there was compression (tape was being sucked in and pushed up). When we had the valve covers off, the cams turned fine, as far as we could see.

HighLux

Cast iron block would have to be brazed to repair. Terrible idea.

Ill tell ya the truth. That motor is a turd.

Get money back.

Look it over better next time.

maachine

hilux is right, i didnt think about the block being cast iron. cant weld on cast iron very well. whats wrong with rebuilding your old engine now that its out of the truck? sounds like it just needs some new bearings and possibly get the crank turned. wont know till you rip it apart, but rebuilding it could be cheaper than you think.

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

I guess I could rebuild it, I just don't really know how to do that. How complicated is it? If I get the heads off, is that enough to tell how extensive the damage is? My buddy and I did just complete a full rebuild on a 4L60E and he's done some rebuilds, so I'm sure we could do it. With his help, I could do it, but how much more time would that take than a swap?

After this crap motor and the time I've wasted, I'm not going to take less than a low-mileage, great looking motor from Case. I can probably get a refund from them and save myself the 4-hour round-trip drive. Unless I can get Case to compensate me for my time/gas money, a rebuild or a different dealer may be a better option. I think rebuild kits go for $300-600 on Fleabay.

Thoughts? Thank you very much for your replies thus far. I've got a loaner vehicle in the mean-time, but this 4Runner is my baby and I want to get her running again in the best/safest/most economical way possible ASAP.

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for the input. After all the work we did on it, I was about to put it back in, but with everyone's advice here, I know it's not the right thing to do. I haven't cut many corners with my rig anywhere else, doing so on the engine mounts isn't the place either. I'm going to call first thing tomorrow and get something figured out. Thanks!

maachine

get a repair manual for it. it tells you how to rebuild the entire thing. only problem is you might need some specialized tools. but you can borrow those from autoparts stores.

best way to check for the lower end knock that the dealership told you about? take the oil pan off the bottom of the engine and rotate it a few times. from the sounds of it, you'd probably want to replace the oil pump while you are in there. and ya, rebuilding it will take a lot longer than an engine swap. but the best part about rebuilding it yourself, you know you either did it right or wrong, so you'll never have to guess if you let someone else do it.

i'm pretty sure you can find all the help you need through these forums. might take you a while but you will learn some ˟˟˟˟.

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

@maachine: I might, depending upon my upcoming living situation, try to rebuild my old motor. If I'm successful in doing that, I may try to swap it out, or I may just sell it. More than likely, I'll just sell it for what I can get for it, but who knows. I know that'd be a great learning experience, but I've got a little too much on my plate right now to take all that on. Thanks for your input thus far, much appreciated!

Update time!

So, I called Case Used Parts a couple of days ago and spoke with Keith. He was understanding on the phone, and said that he would pull the "best motor they had" and have it waiting for me. My loaner car is a 2004 4Runner, so I had to borrow my buddy's truck again to get back to them and make the exchange. By the time I tore apart the old motor and reclaimed my gaskets, timing belt kit, etc it was about 2:30, and it's almost a 2-hour drive from my house back up to Marion, SC. By the time I got the old POS motor back together and in the back of the truck it was 3:00. I called Case and asked if someone might be willing to stay a little after 5:00 so that I could pickup the motor that day. They weren't very willing to work with me, so I was disappointed in that.

I went the next day, and the motor they had ready looked pretty good. That said, their operation leaves a lot to be desired. They smoke in the office and waiting area, and the front of the small building at the lot is so littered with trash and broken-down cars, there's almost nowhere to park. When I got there, the lot manager was surprisingly interested in salvaging the crappy, broken motor I brought back to them.

They loaded up my new one, and the bobcat drove off, and that was it. Everyone disappeared. No paperwork, nothing. I went back in the office and asked for a new receipt or something, at least to make sure I get documentation of the new date of pickup, and thus new start date on 30-day warranty. The woman at the counter suggested that she could just change the date on my old receipt. Whatever, I got her to do that and to verify the mileage on the motor on the receipt. She said it has 91,437 on it. I guess there's no way to verify that, but I'm much more inclined to believe that than what Keith told me about the last motor, that it had around 88K miles on it.

TLDR: After much pain in the rear, got new, much better looking motor!

So, we got the new motor torn down and valve covers off....drumroll......:

That looks pretty awesome!


Here's a comparison of this new motor and the POS motor Case Used Parts gave me the first time:



Here's a closer shot, it looks really clean under the valve covers! But, they took off the spark plug boots on that side and I guess they got rained in the night it sat out in their yard. We blasted it out and cleaned that up with some compressed air and parts cleaner. Plugs and wires from my old motor (less than 3K miles on them) will go back in tomorrow.




Underside of motor with oil pan off:



Same shot, after a quick clean-up:



My buddy (math teacher extraordinaire by day, mechanic by night) tightening up oil pan bolts!:



Here's the motor, all ready to go back in! New timing belt, idler roller, tensioner roller, tensioner, thermostat, and water pump. We did not replace the crankshaft or camshaft seals.



Here she is, about go back in!



Mounts on this motor look sturdy and clean, so they'll stay!



After about 40 minutes of PITA, we got all the trans. bolts in and got all 4 of these guys in. I've never been so happy to have a bunch of bolts in.



Amidst all this engine swap mess, my buddy that I borrowed the truck from used my loaner 2004 4Runner for the day while I went to make the exchange. He lost the key, and I ended up having to get it towed from his place today, up to the dealership and spent about 6 hours there today while they got a replacement key cut and reprogrammed. My buddy paid for the key, which they charged $183.37 for. If it ain't one thing, it's another!

So, didn't get as much done today as hoped, but we'll get at it again tomorrow night, get it back together, filled with fluids, and see what happens! Thanks for reading!

maachine

word. that engine definitely looks much better.

HighLux

I'm so glad you exchanged that motor. Way to persevere.

J2F42C

Wow, I cannot believe the condition of that first engine. I am glad that the second one turned out to be that much better.

I'd run the oil in the engine for 500 miles and then drain it just to get any possible nasty crud that lies in it out.

Junkyards are not for the faint of heart by any means.

rworegon

The second engine looks much better. Glad you did not settle on trying to repair the first one from Case which really is scrap.

98SR54RUNNER

iTrader: (1)

So, after dropping a screw into one of the open valve covers last night, and it falling down the oil passage into the pan, the PITA trans and motor mount bolts are back out and motor will have to come back up and out for oil pan removal and replacement, hopefully tonight.

I've never heard a sound so heartbreaking as the "tink, tink, tink" of the screw falling down to the pan/baffle. I just sat on the garage floor for a while, contemplating the ups/downs of life after it happened.

I swear, I'm just about at my wits end with this. I got the bolts back out today, but waiting on my buddy to get home to hopefully get it back out tonight and in again tomorrow.

I'll update when we make some progress. Maybe some part of this will go on without me making a stupid idiot dumb stupid mistake.

HighLux

You got it from here man!
Gonna run sweet.

Use black rtv on that oilpan not a cork gasket.
coat the pan and the bock.

Gonna fire right up!