3.4L Turbo Kits coming soon!
#82
Originally Posted by midiwall
Aren't you supposed to be heading to work now? (and yes... they're yours!)
My PC loves it
#83
Contributing Member
Originally Posted by midiwall
...as the price of premium heads to $3.50/gallon up here!
EEEK!
Hey Jamie... Your HP numbers are crank right? So are you saying that if I run Gregg's old 318's, then I won't be able to stay fed as I get to 375hp? I'm well above 300hp now and I know I can push it rich on 305's. Do you have a reference for the math so that I can play with sizes on my own?
Maybe I should wait and pick up Gregg's soon-to-be old 440's...
EEEK!
Hey Jamie... Your HP numbers are crank right? So are you saying that if I run Gregg's old 318's, then I won't be able to stay fed as I get to 375hp? I'm well above 300hp now and I know I can push it rich on 305's. Do you have a reference for the math so that I can play with sizes on my own?
Maybe I should wait and pick up Gregg's soon-to-be old 440's...
There are a bunch of calculators out there, but here are 2 quick and dirty ones for you:
http://www.iroczone.com/calcs/injectorsize.htm
http://www.injector.com/injectorselection.php (assumes a low fuel pressure)
Here's the math behind the numbers:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm
I did find one source that said a good rule of thumb for the max power an injector can possibly make is to take the injector cc rating and divide by 5 to get the max HP per injector (then you obviously need to multiply by the number of injectors you're running on that engine....normally one per cylinder). This also assumes you are running them at 100% duty cycle (not a good idea). For 80% duty cycle you divide the cc's by 6.3 to get the HP made per injector.
Last edited by MTL_4runner; 05-05-2006 at 04:44 AM.
#85
Registered User
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by midiwall
...as the price of premium heads to $3.50/gallon up here!
EEEK!
Hey Jamie... Your HP numbers are crank right? So are you saying that if I run Gregg's old 318's, then I won't be able to stay fed as I get to 375hp? I'm well above 300hp now and I know I can push it rich on 305's. Do you have a reference for the math so that I can play with sizes on my own?
Maybe I should wait and pick up Gregg's soon-to-be old 440's...
EEEK!
Hey Jamie... Your HP numbers are crank right? So are you saying that if I run Gregg's old 318's, then I won't be able to stay fed as I get to 375hp? I'm well above 300hp now and I know I can push it rich on 305's. Do you have a reference for the math so that I can play with sizes on my own?
Maybe I should wait and pick up Gregg's soon-to-be old 440's...
Yeah the price of fuel suks all right. the nice thing with the turbo port fueler is you only use it while in boost. All other times your working with the stock fuel injectors and ecu. Sooooo, if you stay out of boost you will get the same mileage as a N/A! However, whats the use of having forced induction if you don't use it right!! The 440's i'm putiing in will no doubt make my mileage go in the toilet, but with the port fueler probably a month or so off, I am willing to deal with it for awhile. When it comes out though, I will have a great deal on 1-2 month old injectors!!
#86
Registered User
Thanks Jamie... it's kinda' tripping me out that you can compute projected HP based on injector size/fuel usage. I guess the figures that you can actually get the mixture into the cylinder, compress it and fire it. (i.e., there's nothing in the math to figure bore, stroke, etc.)
Okay, so the 318's won't help.... GREGG! HURRY UP WITH THE 440's!
Okay, so the 318's won't help.... GREGG! HURRY UP WITH THE 440's!
Last edited by midiwall; 05-04-2006 at 10:16 AM.
#88
Registered User
Originally Posted by 599er
Next time I'm in Bothell, I'll have to look you up for a ride.
#89
Contributing Member
Originally Posted by midiwall
Thanks Jamie... it's kinda' tripping me out that you can compute projected HP based on injector size/fuel usage. I guess the figures that you can actually get the mixture into the cylinder, compress it and fire it. (i.e., there's nothing in the math to figure bore, stroke, etc.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSFC
Here are some common values used in engineering for various engines:
http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/GArticles/bsfc.html
"The brake specific fuel consumption of an engine depends on many factors including thermal efficiency, mechanical efficiency and air to fuel ratios. Most piston engines have a BSFC of between 0.5 and 0.55 lbs. of fuel per hp per hour at maximum power, set fairly rich with AFRs between 12 and 13 to 1."
It is a big unknown (unless you actually measure it on a dyno), but you'd be pretty safe putting it at between 0.5 and 0.55 on the 3.4L motor (true BSFC might be as good as 0.45 at WOT in the peak torque RPM of the motor), but all other conditions will be higher. In general the larger the engine cyclinder bore the higher the specific fuel consumption will be (you also need to take into account the number of cylinders).
Here's another good article where they go through all the math to size the injectors:
http://engine.firebirdv6.com/formulas.html
Last edited by MTL_4runner; 05-04-2006 at 11:04 AM.
#91
Registered User
Thread Starter
Alright NEW UPDATE AGAIN. Just spoke with Brian and URD and they are out of stock on the Bosch 440's. Looks like I am going to be waiting on the Port Fueler after all. Gadget said that they are being made at the machine shop and will be released within the next two weeks or so.
#92
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Originally Posted by midiwall
How often do you get to this area? Drop me a PM or email with a couple of days notice and we can figure it out!
#93
Registered User
Originally Posted by 599er
3 times last year, 1 already this year. I'm sure there will be at least one more before the year's out...
#94
Registered User
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by midiwall
Cool. Seems like if you wait at least a month then you could talk Gregg (Greedy) into showing his hard earned $$$ as well.
#95
Registered User
Originally Posted by Greedy
#97
Registered User
Originally Posted by MTL_4runner
Mark, if you are heading towards 375 HP then I would definately go for the 440s because the ideal is to keep the injectors in the 80% duty cycle range in order to have some safety factor built in there...
Working from the calcluator here:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm
What's the possibility that when you said "if you are heading towards 375 HP...", you were thinking RWHP? I'm looking at about 390 at the CRANK or 310ish at the wheels.
If I figure that you were thinking 375 at the wheels, then figure 20% loss through the auto, so that's 470 at the crank. Working from there, then the RC Engineering calculator starts pushing 400cc injectors (for a 80% duty cycle)
But, if I use 390HP, then it's drifting into the 330cc range.
oops?
#98
Registered User
crap... okay... so, what IS the PSI rating of the Walbro 190?
I've now seen numbers of 60 and 90psi. If it's 90psi, then Jamie and I were both talking about crank (the pressure is great enough to drive 330cc injectors). 60psi says that he was talking about RHWP (so, 470 crank) (the reduced pressure would require 440cc injectors).
I've now seen numbers of 60 and 90psi. If it's 90psi, then Jamie and I were both talking about crank (the pressure is great enough to drive 330cc injectors). 60psi says that he was talking about RHWP (so, 470 crank) (the reduced pressure would require 440cc injectors).
#100
Registered User
Originally Posted by bluestreak701
Bump for info/ dyno charts!
There was a quick discussion on another forum about status, and it _appears_ that it should be shipped VERY soon. But, Gregg's going to need to source injectors for it, and that could take an extra couple of days.
Closer... Closer... CLOSER!
...but not quite yet.