Hopefully by that time sombody will have figured out a fix for the speed sensor for us Limited Runner folks.

 

Sorry to bring up an old post but i saw that exact same truck on craigslist and the guy wanted only around 16k cuz he was having a hard time selling it

 

Can you PM me the link please?

 

Here is the link on Pirate:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=530929

He doesn't really want to sell, he just wants a dedicated wheeler that he doesn't have to worry about uglifiying.

I really want to fly down the California and give him $17k cash for it then drive it back. Damn dreams and their not always panning out

 

i just want some more info

ie:

-how does it effect vsc electronics
-what were the compromises?
-how does he operate the 4wd?
-did he lose awd?

 

VSC no workie.

4wd on all the time.

Do you want AWD on a truck like this?

This truck is a basket case. Good parts but bad platform.

Someone talked about wiring a switch to trick the solenoid.

Think about it, you just took a highly sophisticated, eletronic trucked that based a lot of thinking on ABS and got rid of half the ABS signal. It is going to be pissed.

 

Not sure what year this is; from the front bumper it looks to be a '96-'98, but it has a scooped hood also. Either way it's a nicely built 3rd Gen for 10.5k in California...

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/car/246567146.html

 

its not a question of me wanting awd, i am curious if it was something they were able to keep.

can you give more info??? how is it a basketcase??

 

On that truck, VSC, ABS, 4WD and the speedo depend on a signal from the front and rear wheels. They measure and compare those readings to modulate brakes, etc.

Without the front signal, the computer will be freaked out. Usually this manifests itself by stopping the speedo, killing ABS and locking in 4wd high range.

The fact that the guy is spinning at for a loss suggests that it is not a complete, sweet truck. You can put an axle under anything, making all the rest of the junk work that was there before is the hard part.

 

sorry i cant find it anymore listing must have expired....might show up again though since i saw it posted 2x with about a month apart, you have to check under San francisco bay area craigslist.

 

that still doesnt quite make sense to me.

why would the computer be "freaked out"? I can run my truck in 2wd with vsc, trac and abs disabled and it couldnt care less. anyone whos wheeling hard enough to want a sas (in my opinion) would not even want vsc or trac or abs, i have turned them off from day one.

i dont get why you cant run it in 2wd, and youre not answering me, youre just saying its a basketcase and that "you can put an axle under anything, making all the rest of the junk work that was there before is the hard part"

sorry, i just am looking for actual info, not straight opinions and big dramatic words.

 

by turning your buttons on the dash off, you're not doing the same thing.

the computer still looks for the signal from the abs sensors. you have one sensor at each wheel. on the front CV's, there is a band that has ridges that runs the circumference of the joint near the spindle. the ABS sensor is essentially a "prox sensor". when metal is in proximity to the sensor, then the signal is sent to the processor. w/ the ridges, it sends a series of "beeps" to the computer. that series of beeps tells the computer how fast that wheel is spinning. that signal is what it uses to determine if there's a loss in traction by comparing the signals among all 4 wheels. if they are all the same/similar range, then it uses them to display a speed via the speedometer.

getting rid of the front abs sensors, the computer now sees that the rear axle is spinning, but nothing from the front. on the 01/02's (from the way i understand it when that truck's swap was initially discussed on pirate), the computer goes into an error mode when that happens and it engages the AWD (AWD is vacuum controlled on the 01/02's as part of the multimode system) as a means to ensure that the fronts will spin - part of the Vehicle Stability Control System. at that point, it still doesn't see a signal, and it knows that the 4WD is engaged, so it should be spinning the axles. at that point, the dash lights up like a Christmas tree and the ECU pretty much locks things into place. you can still go into 4-lo, since that is a mechanical change via the XF stick, but other than that, it's not very "functional" on the computer-controlled 4WD front.

you *could* possibly swap in some pre-01 parts like an ECU, NON-multimode XF case, and some other stuff like NON-ABS brakes, etc and then you could SAS a 01/02 w/o the headaches. however, if you were to do that, then why not do the more sensible thing and sell the 01/02 and then SAS a CHEAPER 96-98 SR5?

the point is: an SAS can and always could be done to a 01/02 runner. however, hanging steel under the front and doing it right aren't necessarily the same thing.

it's the same problem w/ the FJ's. it's been done. that's the easy part. the hard part is doing it the correct way to make the computer stuff work and retain the A-TRAC and VSC. do you have to? no. but if you have those things to begin with, why essentially trash a rig by not doing it right?

however, now that Jeep is going to a true D44 (instead of a D44 center w/ D30 outers) on the fronts of the new wranglers, then we *MIGHT* have a new option that could possibly retain the ABS on the rigs that would need it. i don't know what the new WMS-WMS measurement is for the new wranglers, but the good news is that they appear to be bumping up slightly in size, meaning more width and therefore, at least closer to the width that's needed to match the rear axle of a 3rd gen. i'm still a few years from worrying about any of that, so i'm not on top of it, but when/if i ever do, then it will be with the ABS, and therefore the multimode retained. i will plan it out and will pay schaefer for his services w/ me helping w/ the grunt work. i would have to ship/drive 4000 miles to do it, so it won't be quick and it won't be half-assed. why? cause i enjoy a good challenge, i want to do things right, and it has yet to be done.

 

thanks thats the info i was looking for.

i knew that switching it off was not the same thing, but i was looking for the exact answers. i know there are abs sensors on each wheel... im curious if a more technically / electrically inclined person couldnt find a way to close the system or adapt it to a SAS somehow.

 

the BEST way would be to retain the OEM Toyota ABS sensors. to do that, you need a way to mount them to the new front axle, then you also need something on the new axle shafts that would mimmick the sensor ring that's typically on the CV axles. the ridges/valleys on the ring have to be machined so that the timing of them passing by the sensor has to be exactly the same timing as the originals or they won't work correctly. that depends on how far from the axis of the axles you mount the sensor. simple proportionality would apply there, and the farther out you are, the farther apart the ridges get.

keep the ABS sensors and fab something for them to read, and you'd be fine.

the new wranglers have ABS, so they have some sort of sensor mounting location and some sort of ABS ring. look into that, and you'll find one solution that would work. there are also others.

 

the ring youre talking about isnt on the actual cv correct?

 

can't remember. ...

[edit] you're right, it's not on the CV, but part of the spindle. it's called an "ABS Tone Ring".



[/edit]

 

yeah i saw it when i was changing my lower ball joint a few weeks ago.

then the abs sensor plugs into the spindle to read how that spins. that makes sense mainly bc if it was on the cv itself, then my cv would be incompatible with a 4runner that didnt have abs, and vice versa.

anyway, i think ill take a look at the abs system and try to see what i can find.

 

Big dramatic words?

There is not an ABS signal from the front wheels.

This causes the computer in a multi mode case to lock in 4wd.

This sucks?

Can you read that?

This is TRUTH, not e-pinion.

 

interesting.

i wonder if there's a way to fool the computer into thinking those front abs sensors are there. or to swap all four sensors with something that would work.
or maybe use toyota abs sensors/axles from a two solid axle truck?

if i were going to ever SAS my truck, i'd want all those systems to still be there. sure i'd likely be into more serious wheeling by that point, but why should i have to compromise? and yeah, the AWD function can still be handy on road i just used it yesterday on some snowy/icy roads.

 

cheese, i don't think all multi-modes do that. from what i can tell, it's the one's with VSC, the infamous 01/02 runners w/ all the computer trinkets. my 99 has multimode, and gets the speed from the abs sensors, but it won't lock it into 4wd if one goes bad IIRC, but i could be wrong.