Cyberhorn The Dragon

considering that most rain in calif is from other peoples miss aimed squirter nozzles......


id pop um off mark an blow them out reversed so any blockage is ejected an maybe soak um in some vinegar or CLR

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Hello Mark... Sounds like you have the nozzles that are easier to work with and not with the skirts on them. I would soak them and clean them with a needle and then try to blow out the holes in reverse direction to clean them out. I havent posted it on my threads, but I do take the complete water hose from the bottle to the nozzles and soak them in soapy water and then flush the lines with high pressure air and in some cases I have had to replace the lines as they were brittle or cut. The lines get just as dirty too.

Hello Cyberhorn..I have used the same trick as well. Works really well.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Started the day with the best of intentions and it went downhill from there. We removed the tops off of both runners for the first time at the same time. That went okay.


Here is Misty coming up the hill. This road eventually leads to some power line trails that can be quite steep. I was hoping to get to them and on the level areas, was going to let the kiddos drive in low range and first gear just to let them get an idea of driving.


Here is where the plans went wrong. After taking pictures of Misty coming up some trails, I went to start my truck and it would start then die. At first I thought it was the fuel filter and changed it out. The old filter was in great condition. Then I checked my fuel pump at the tank. Having the top off made checking the fuel pump out sooo nice. The pump is putting out alot of pressure. At this time I am suspecting I am having a problem from the filter to the fuel rail. I tried using my 3rd Gen to get it up the hill, but the gravel was just too loose.


Had to get my older brother to get me up the hill. He liked the idea of giving my Toyota a pull as he is a big Dodge fan. It is a one ton diesel and he didnt spin at all getting me up the hill and to the highway where I could just get a tow truck to take it home. I wish Toyota would of kept the Elocker on the newer 3rd Gens. My phone was dying so I didnt get a picture of my runner on a tow truck. I have only had to be towed home 3 times in all of the years I have been driving. Misty didnt care for the break down, but I told her that both of these trucks probably would of never seen the road again in most cases, but they both were on some really steep trails and the 4 wheel drives worked great so it wasnt all bad. Pictures dont show the steepness of some of the hills but both trucks climbed them without any problems.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I would like to Thank Jason, Cyberhorn and Mark for getting back with me and giving me some information and looking in books and on the net trying to help me get it home on its own power. Not having any manuals or access to information while out there and having them to find the information and the ideas as where to start looking,testing, and other things sure was nice just being a phone call away. THANKS Guys!!!

I got some things that I still need to test and see what is going on. It acts like it isnt getting fuel. It will run great on starting fluid and rev up and then die after the strating fluid runs out. Without starting fluid, it will start and run for a few seconds and then die and wont rev up.

I changed fuel filter.
Checked fuel pressure at the pump, and it is strong pressure, sprayed fuel everywhere.
Checked my AFM,TPS,CSI,Thermos Switch,CSI Timing Switch, Coil,Igniter connections, all fuses. I filled the tank before going out, so I know it has fuel in the tank. I jumped the fuel pump at the test points on the drivers side of the inner fender and will post more pics of that for 85 and 86 trucks as it is different then the newer ones at a later time. Sure there are more things that I did and will add them when I think of it.

I am sure it is on the fuel side and will check the Core Opening Relay, Igniter and the Fuel Damper and Regulator when I get the chance. It is a little setback but up until now it as ran flawlessly for a couple of thousand miles. Seems like I have a natural ability to get the oddball problems and not just in trucks. Always got the oddball problems when I was a service tech, but problems like these just make you learn more about these trucks and what makes them tick.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Anxious to see ya get this gremlin in the guillotine! Lol. My pleasure buddy! Any time!

Cyberhorn The Dragon

always glad to help terry!

fuel regulator failed dumping all fuel pressure back to the tank not letting the injectors get any?
could the ECU gone bad? loose power connection?

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Hello Mark... I know I started with a junk truck, but I tried to go thru each system with a fine tooth comb thinking it should be in better condition then a typical daily driver as most dont get a thoro check out in most cases. I cleaned and tested each component before installing them. Other things I did was try to eliminate any weaknesses I may have found such as the crimps in the wiring harness and cleaning the fuel system out to the best of my ability.

I have seen some daily drivers with some really nasty fuel systems and is something I try to point out in my build threads. I am wondering if I need to work more on the fuel system as for the metal fuel lines, all I can really do is fill them with PB Blaster and blow them out with an air hose. That may not be good enough.

I couldnt see the reciept on my phone and I forwarded it to my email and didnt have much luck there as well. I just round up to the nearest dollar, but if I am short, let me know and I will get you any difference I may owe. Thanks again. Wellll, Misty thanks you I get her old bumper.lol.

Thanks Cyberhorn.. I did check to see if I was getting fuel to the rail but I am wondering about what you mentioned. I am wondering if it is getting THRU the rail. It will go back to the tank. Thanks for the help, sometimes two sets of eyes are better then one and it helps you get out of a rut. I am worried about this problem as I mentioned to Mark that I thought I went thru each system as best as possible. It will be a good learning experince no matter how tough it may get.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Somethings I have done. Some I did a quick parts swap just to see if it would get it running as quickly as possible.

Tried a good AFM.... .........No Change.
Tried another Coil/Igniter...No Change.
Checked for vacuum leaks, and found none.
All grounds hooked up. I have a reference page on my 88 build that I have been refering to.
I have no Check Engine Codes. When jumping the test point, I get flashing ones, which means system normal.
I use factory wires,plugs,cap,rotor and all are less then a year old so i am not suspecting them to be at fualt and they look and seem to be good.


Here is how you do a Fuel Pump Bypass on the 85/86.
Jumper wire the Yellow Plug on Drivers side. ( Jumper wire should be in both contacts for testing, I just didnt have it in for picture purposes and mostly a referece for me at a later time.)


With the jumper wire in and the key turned on, I was able to fill the cup up in about a minute or so. The return hose goes to where my finger is pointing. This is the metal line that I suggest taking an air hose and seeing if it is clear all the way to the fuel pump bracket. I have seen this line and the "J" line on the bracket clogged several times.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I did notice that my TPS is loose. Will start checking into that before I start taking the intake side loose. Link for more ideas.>>> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...then-dies.html

I have checked the FSM and Haynes manuals for trouble shooting and everythign seems to be good on what I have checked out so far.

I am wondering if somehow my injector are clogged and the reason it will run is possibly from what the Cold Start Injector is putting in??? It will run for about 4 seconds then die.

Will Check my Main Relay and Solenoid Resistor.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

It will run on its own fuel or only with starting fluid? Cold start injector theory could have some hair on it... As long as the motor is completely cold.... Is it now starting on its own fuel,... Only after getting home and letting it get completely cold?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

It is a 4 runner, at least if you need to you could look inside the tank very thoroughly. As I remember you cleaned the tank thoroughly..... and something gone awry within the EFI system would be more likely, but if anything manage to get loose and plugged all four injectors?... then I would have to name the gremlin Houdini!

You could always pull cold start injector and see if this is giving you a few seconds of fuel? I mean that's pretty much all you can do to verify that one. Pull that sucker right out of the plenum and drop it in a glass... have Misty turnover the key and watch for the Go Go juice.

The injectors have the number 10 and number 20 pins from the ECU... And igniter seems to be good so you're getting that signal back to determine pulse....

Hmmmm..... Man I just hate it when this crap happens to good dudes and dudettes! Well, at least you got back home and weren't stranded out there or anything.

Going to be 98*f today, here, good buddy... I am NOT working the grill if I can help it! Lol......

Cyberhorn The Dragon

terry could the injector driver on the passenger fender have failed?
are they getting the electrical signal to open?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, the injector resistor is something I guess that could interrupt flow right? I'm not sure I've ever heard of that but I'm sure one or two have gone bad over the last 30 years right? Hahaha

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Hello Cyberhorn and Mark... I am thinking this could be a tough fix. It will start up each and every time and run for about 4 seconds at idle. It will rev up until it runs out of fuel which cuts the run time down to about 2 seconds. Just using a number of say one ounce of fuel and depending on engine speed determines the amount of time it runs.

On starting fluid it will run as long as you keep the fluid going to it and it will rev up with the throttle. If I recall right, doesnt the CSI only kick in when it is below 50 degrees? We are in the mid 70s at night and getting up to 100 degrees during the day.

If it sits for hours or minutes, it doesnt seem to matter on the how quick it starts. It has always started within one or two revolutions of the motor.

I will pull the CSI and see if that is where it is getting its fuel and from there I will pull the fuel rail and see what it and the injectors look like. I may be stuck in a circle and once I determine that those arent clogged, it should get me to looking at something else. I will check the resistor while in there.

It has me hung up as it is getting plenty of fuel going to the return line so from there, I would think that fuel is sitting at the injectors but it acts like it is starving for fuel. It idles and revs great, but if the injectors arent getting a signal, would that give the same idle and reving abilities?

I have a really good grasp on the injector circuit and how it works as that is what held me up for a long time on orginally getting it running. I am not thinking the ECU at this time for several reasons, they are really dependable from my experience, and I intentionally caused some CEL Codes, by not hooking up the AFM, installing a bad Coil/ Igniter and disconnecting the TPS and the computer caught each one of those errors each and every time and it was quick to do it. I did each error one at a time. May not be the best way to test the computer, but it is functoning. I dont know how to cause an error in the injector circuits which is pins 10 and 20, but if the computer is fualty at pins 10 and 20, those test wont work.

Also when I jump the diagnostic port, it will flash a 1's. Up to this point I still have a lot of confidence in the computer. I think I have one or two that I could try just to see if anything changes.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I plan on getting caught up on some threads later tonite if all goes well. Looking forward to see what you guys have accomplished. Been going 90 miles an hour around here and havent much time to get on the computer lately and now this grr. Once I get past this, I have alot of plans and things should start to move quick for me soon.

Cyberhorn The Dragon

ok so either the injectors arent firing or! they have no fuel pressure to fire more than a little have you checked the rail has fuel 'pressure' not just gas in the rail but its under pressure

went reading:causes for starting an dieing on the 22re's

checked your EFI fuse?
coolant temp sensor?
new fuel filter?

me thinkin here...
MAF is good (which would cut power to the pump via the COR thinking its not running) if the thing ran with the pump jumpered then the COR would be the suspect but im thinking its in the injector side of this
so ether they are all clogged OR they arent shootin fuel either due to electrical or no pressure behind them

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Is there a minimum pressure for the injectors to fire? If so, seeing fowl shot all over isn't really conclusive.... Worth rolling out with a good P.O.E.

You'll get Terry, and it's one of those things that just really does take that good process of elimination to get to the bottom of it. Being able to run on ether should tell you all you need to know about the ignition system. I'm not sure it is 100 percent conclusive regarding the igniter or its relationship 2 the ECU and number 10 and number 20 pins and injectors... that's something that I would have to reread.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Hello cyberhorn.. I checked all of the fuses and double checked the EFI Fuse. I havent checked the Coolant Temp Sender. You talking about the one to the guage between cylinders 2 and 3 or the Thermo Switch under the Thermostat? I changed the fuel filter out on the trail. It is a pain in the rear in the shop and a bigger pain out on the trail. Luckily I have changed enough fuel filters, I am able to just feel my way to the bolts without ever seeing them, but something I dont want to ever do again out on the trail. They could put the filter in a hundered different areas and they chose one of the most difficult places possible.

I am going to have to find out what a Noid Light is and how to use it. That would help alot on knowing about the injectors. I have heard of Noid Light/Testers and it is quickly going to get added to the toolbox. I did suspect the COR, but if I understand correctly, the jumper wire trick should of bypassed it and in a worse case scenario, it would get you home. It just wouldnt shut off the fuel pump in an accident.

Thanks Mark... Problems like these can frustrate you, but when all is fixed and working again, it is a rewarding experience. I have the unnatural ability to get myself into situations like these, but when I come out on the other side, I have always learned something. I could probably eventually get this fixed without a Noid Light ( whatever that is?? lol) and I thought I had a great understanding of the Injector circuit before, but after this, I should know it inside out and backwards. Either way it will be that much more dependable when done.

I am not sure of a minimum pressure for the fuel but that maybe something else I will eventually learn as well.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I was hoping to get to look at the runner today, but didnt get to spend any time on it. Had a few other things to come up and had to take care of. I got a niece that is going to get stationed in Japan and got to see her before she leaves and will be seeing her again before she goes. Hoping I might get her to send a few things over while she is staitioned there like emblems and such. Who know if that will work out, to bad it wasnt a favorite nephew that was going over there as he is mechanically inclined enough to send a whole truck in the mail.

I wont get to mess with the runner tomorrow as well as I have to have dental surgery again and they will be taking some fat out of my cheek to fill in my dry socket. This issue will be 2 years old in October, but I am hoping to get to look at it soon and see what is holding my runner down. It just grinds on me having a daily driver down and I have a few things that I can check out on it and some may be easily fixed. I want to see if I can make the injectors fire without being inside the cylinder and make sure they arent clogged.

Cyberhorn The Dragon

the front one under the thermostat i was readin on a thread it was causing one persons truck to do like yours

ok so that should be good filter wise

the AFM controls the COR an mix but it couldnt kill the engine like this could it?