RBx 1988 4Runner Build-Up Thread
12-12-2013, 10:06 AM
#1621
Registered User
ok so I read the interco birddog and it talks about the fact that it is designed for off road use, but not what is specifically designed for off road. I'm curious what makes it better.
12-12-2013, 11:11 AM
#1622
Registered User
Thread Starter
I don't know if its better then other rims since its so new and no reviews about durability. What peaked my interest was the features .
from their website:
Self Cleaning Design
Smooth tapered angle with a slick powder coating means that that sticky gumbo mud will sling out at the goose of the throttle. In the cold cold days of winter in snow country you can forget snow build up too. As the snow starts to build up the centrifugal force will slide it right on out.
Valve Stems and Placement
Either can be used to service the air in the field but with two, one of them will always be in the right location, (being stuck in soft sand or mud and having the valve stem buried in muck is no fun). The main reason is to have the ability to rapidly deflate and or inflate while monitoring the air pressure changes.
Abrasion Ring / Gauge Holes
The ability to have a tire and wheel jammed into a hard rock so the vehicle can pivot around a very tight turn is something that can occur in off highway driving. Rock gouges in a wheel are to be expected when used in the real example above. Current aftermarket and OEM wheels are not designed to endure this type of punishment. In many cases big chunks are ripped out or small nicks in the bead area crack after a period of use. Big dents or worse, the outer lips are bent inwards, all render the wheel unserviceable. The BIRDDOG addresses this problem by providing a solid raised "sacrificial" abrasion ring designed to be scarred and gouged up. This abrasion ring also deflects debris from trying to wedge in-between the tire and rim. But its main function is to offer the additional strength and tire protection for years of service when operating in a hostile environment.
Gauge holes
To assist in determining if a gouge is too deep the BIRDDOG has "gauge holes" placed around the rim. If a gouge is deeper then one of the gauge holes the structural integrity of the wheel may be compromised.
Small Outer Rim Flange & Rim Protector Relief
Small Outer Rim Flange,
Small outer rim flange One would think that the outer lip of such a purpose built wheel would have a big "macho" look to it. Being big an brawny is for looks. The outer lip of the BIRDDOG was designed to be as short as industry standards would allow. At low air pressures and maximum tire deflection the tire must be able to flex around the rim without pinching the tire or acting as a fulcrum to deform the tire so air can escape. Rim Protector Relief
Some tires have a ridge molded around the area where the tire meets the rim called "rim protectors". Unfortunately, that little feature only works at normal on road air pressures. At low air pressure it works like a pivot point or fulcrum to let air out under high sidewall deflection. The BIRDDOG wheel addresses this problem by providing a relief or notched out area on the outer edge to allow the tire bead to deform around the rim flange without lifting the bead.
Low Pressure Bead Seat Rib
A tire at very low air pressure, 4-10 psi, under maximum lateral deflection distorts the bead package which can allow air to escape between the tire and rim. To insure that this won't happen it is necessary to add a small but strategically placed "air retention Rib" It operates by compressing the foot of the bead just forward of the bead bundle in a very small area. This allows the elasticity of the bead to maintain contact with the rim when deflected in ether direction at extremely low pressures. At normal on road or highway pressures the air pressure itself forces the tire to the rim creating the required seal. At extremely low air pressures that process is minimized requiring additional measures to insure air retention. The second function is to act as a fulcrum. In extreme inward deflection of a tire the bead of the tire is being forced towards the inside of the rim by the weight of the vehicle. At normal or highway pressures, air pressure pushes back with sufficient force to maintain tire and wheel contact. At off highway pressures the weight of the vehicle has sufficient force to "pop the bead". In this case, with the air retention bead in place, the additional resistance from the air retention bead causes the bead package to pivot over thus forcing the foot of the bead into the advanced safety bead groove. The two working together insure the bead stays in place and the problem of "popping a bead " is virtually eliminated.
from their website:
Self Cleaning Design
Smooth tapered angle with a slick powder coating means that that sticky gumbo mud will sling out at the goose of the throttle. In the cold cold days of winter in snow country you can forget snow build up too. As the snow starts to build up the centrifugal force will slide it right on out.
Valve Stems and Placement
Either can be used to service the air in the field but with two, one of them will always be in the right location, (being stuck in soft sand or mud and having the valve stem buried in muck is no fun). The main reason is to have the ability to rapidly deflate and or inflate while monitoring the air pressure changes.
Abrasion Ring / Gauge Holes
The ability to have a tire and wheel jammed into a hard rock so the vehicle can pivot around a very tight turn is something that can occur in off highway driving. Rock gouges in a wheel are to be expected when used in the real example above. Current aftermarket and OEM wheels are not designed to endure this type of punishment. In many cases big chunks are ripped out or small nicks in the bead area crack after a period of use. Big dents or worse, the outer lips are bent inwards, all render the wheel unserviceable. The BIRDDOG addresses this problem by providing a solid raised "sacrificial" abrasion ring designed to be scarred and gouged up. This abrasion ring also deflects debris from trying to wedge in-between the tire and rim. But its main function is to offer the additional strength and tire protection for years of service when operating in a hostile environment.
Gauge holes
To assist in determining if a gouge is too deep the BIRDDOG has "gauge holes" placed around the rim. If a gouge is deeper then one of the gauge holes the structural integrity of the wheel may be compromised.
Small Outer Rim Flange & Rim Protector Relief
Small Outer Rim Flange,
Small outer rim flange One would think that the outer lip of such a purpose built wheel would have a big "macho" look to it. Being big an brawny is for looks. The outer lip of the BIRDDOG was designed to be as short as industry standards would allow. At low air pressures and maximum tire deflection the tire must be able to flex around the rim without pinching the tire or acting as a fulcrum to deform the tire so air can escape. Rim Protector Relief
Some tires have a ridge molded around the area where the tire meets the rim called "rim protectors". Unfortunately, that little feature only works at normal on road air pressures. At low air pressure it works like a pivot point or fulcrum to let air out under high sidewall deflection. The BIRDDOG wheel addresses this problem by providing a relief or notched out area on the outer edge to allow the tire bead to deform around the rim flange without lifting the bead.
Low Pressure Bead Seat Rib
A tire at very low air pressure, 4-10 psi, under maximum lateral deflection distorts the bead package which can allow air to escape between the tire and rim. To insure that this won't happen it is necessary to add a small but strategically placed "air retention Rib" It operates by compressing the foot of the bead just forward of the bead bundle in a very small area. This allows the elasticity of the bead to maintain contact with the rim when deflected in ether direction at extremely low pressures. At normal on road or highway pressures the air pressure itself forces the tire to the rim creating the required seal. At extremely low air pressures that process is minimized requiring additional measures to insure air retention. The second function is to act as a fulcrum. In extreme inward deflection of a tire the bead of the tire is being forced towards the inside of the rim by the weight of the vehicle. At normal or highway pressures, air pressure pushes back with sufficient force to maintain tire and wheel contact. At off highway pressures the weight of the vehicle has sufficient force to "pop the bead". In this case, with the air retention bead in place, the additional resistance from the air retention bead causes the bead package to pivot over thus forcing the foot of the bead into the advanced safety bead groove. The two working together insure the bead stays in place and the problem of "popping a bead " is virtually eliminated.
Last edited by RBX; 12-12-2013 at 11:15 AM.
12-24-2013, 08:52 AM
#1623
Registered User
Hey RBx. Just checking up on all my subbed threads. Hope uou have a great Christmas. Maybe somebody will get you a nice 454 for your truck lol jk though that would be an awesome gift haha
12-24-2013, 09:06 AM
#1624
Registered User
Thread Starter
Monster Valve VS. Compressor drain
^^^ thanks, hope you and your families have a happy and healthy holiday.
No big updates, got my high-pinion back from the shop. Finally recieved the Marlin 25mm trunion upgrade parts, now I need to bore the holes in my TG arms. Hopefully the axle will go under her this weekend.
a few pics of the new meats. good news is the tire carrier fits the 35" easy, but I may add some reinforcing to it. And a comparison of the Monster Valves to an air compressor drain for easy and quick air down. These compressor drains are different then the normal drain, tighten to shut/close loosen to leak/drain, opposite of your typical compressor drain fitting. this way I have the most clearance and will be switching out all the valves for these.
No big updates, got my high-pinion back from the shop. Finally recieved the Marlin 25mm trunion upgrade parts, now I need to bore the holes in my TG arms. Hopefully the axle will go under her this weekend.
a few pics of the new meats. good news is the tire carrier fits the 35" easy, but I may add some reinforcing to it. And a comparison of the Monster Valves to an air compressor drain for easy and quick air down. These compressor drains are different then the normal drain, tighten to shut/close loosen to leak/drain, opposite of your typical compressor drain fitting. this way I have the most clearance and will be switching out all the valves for these.
Last edited by RBX; 11-12-2015 at 10:17 AM.
12-24-2013, 01:40 PM
#1627
Registered User
Thread Starter
We shall see how well they work.
Also finally got my marlin 25mm trunion upgrade. Now need my steering arms bored to accept the larger pin.
Also finally got my marlin 25mm trunion upgrade. Now need my steering arms bored to accept the larger pin.
12-26-2013, 04:37 PM
#1628
Just finished reading through the last 20 pages of your thread, I gotta say you got a really inspiring build going! It makes me want to link my 4runner, lol. I wish I'd known about FROR's taco brake swap when I SAS'd my 4runner, sounds like a nice easy swap. I ended up using my 86' ifs wheel hubs, but had to use landcruiser rotors and drill out the bolt hole pattern to work with the 86' ifs wheel hubs, also had to do a little grinding and drill the mounting holes out bigger on the knuckles and mounted the calipers on the opposite side of the knuckle mounting flanges to make up for the new offset, it works well, but FROR's bolt on kit seems a lot easier, and more friendly if you need to do a trail repair! I might have missed it, but what's your plan for the rear suspension, are you staying with leaf springs, or are you planning to link the rear as well?
12-31-2013, 02:31 AM
#1629
Registered User
Thread Starter
4WU Reassembly
Update:
Anyone know what the pressure in the RadFlo 2.0s should be? I have to get the shock recharged and the instructions say 180-200psi, but to set it to you preferred pressure per vehicle. Also when I was depressurizing the shock a little oil came out, maybe a table spoon, is this a big deal?
thanks
Anyhow, had some warm days, rebuilt and installed the axle. Also got the Marlin Crawler 25mm trunion upgrade. Milled out the Trail Gear arms, and pressed in the new pins. You can see a pic below with the old pins.
Pay no attention to the lines draped infront of the axle, those are for the OBHS i had to disconnect while fitting everything.
Anyone know what the pressure in the RadFlo 2.0s should be? I have to get the shock recharged and the instructions say 180-200psi, but to set it to you preferred pressure per vehicle. Also when I was depressurizing the shock a little oil came out, maybe a table spoon, is this a big deal?
thanks
Anyhow, had some warm days, rebuilt and installed the axle. Also got the Marlin Crawler 25mm trunion upgrade. Milled out the Trail Gear arms, and pressed in the new pins. You can see a pic below with the old pins.
Pay no attention to the lines draped infront of the axle, those are for the OBHS i had to disconnect while fitting everything.
Last edited by RBX; 11-12-2015 at 10:46 AM.
12-31-2013, 05:52 AM
#1631
Registered User
Thread Starter
rustEDyota83....
sorry I missed your post, just saw it now.
The rear is leaf sprung for now, but someday it will get a 4link. The problem is relocating the gas tank. Hopefully when i am ready to link the rear 4Wheel Underground will have their gas tank relocation kit ready. Custum multi-pickup 25ish gallon tank IIRC.
Ian,
5th stud, probably not, If i find the need I'll go Six-shooter with the Marlin 25mm pin/bearings. I say this now, but if I find the need for the extra studs, chances are I'll get impatient and just do the 5th stud mod instead of waiting on the 6-shooters and then have to ream the pin bore out to accept the 25mm pin.
So while we are on the subject here is what is in the new (to me) 85' SFA;
Trail-Gear Knuckle ball wipers
Trail Gear steering arm and tie-rod kit
Marlin Crawler 25mm Trunion upgrade
Marlin Crawler Eco-Seal axle shaft seals
Koyo hub bearings
Rebuilt and Powdercoated hub dials & locks
Front Range Offroad Tacoma Brake Upgrade
96' 4Runner Calipers S13WM (sell these after this season to upgrade to the Tundra anchors)
96' 4Runner Rotors 319mm
Bilstein 5100 stabilizer (used on Ford Superduty F250-350)
4Wheel Underground 3-Link Kit
Steering stops filled with nuts and plated
Zerk fittings installed on knuckle for ease of regreasing knuckle balls
extended breather(not shown) thread is 1/8" BSPT(British Standard Pipe Thread)
FJ80 Hi-Pinion with elocker 5:29 reverse cut gears
sorry I missed your post, just saw it now.
The rear is leaf sprung for now, but someday it will get a 4link. The problem is relocating the gas tank. Hopefully when i am ready to link the rear 4Wheel Underground will have their gas tank relocation kit ready. Custum multi-pickup 25ish gallon tank IIRC.
Ian,
5th stud, probably not, If i find the need I'll go Six-shooter with the Marlin 25mm pin/bearings. I say this now, but if I find the need for the extra studs, chances are I'll get impatient and just do the 5th stud mod instead of waiting on the 6-shooters and then have to ream the pin bore out to accept the 25mm pin.
So while we are on the subject here is what is in the new (to me) 85' SFA;
Trail-Gear Knuckle ball wipers
Trail Gear steering arm and tie-rod kit
Marlin Crawler 25mm Trunion upgrade
Marlin Crawler Eco-Seal axle shaft seals
Koyo hub bearings
Rebuilt and Powdercoated hub dials & locks
Front Range Offroad Tacoma Brake Upgrade
96' 4Runner Calipers S13WM (sell these after this season to upgrade to the Tundra anchors)
96' 4Runner Rotors 319mm
Bilstein 5100 stabilizer (used on Ford Superduty F250-350)
4Wheel Underground 3-Link Kit
Steering stops filled with nuts and plated
Zerk fittings installed on knuckle for ease of regreasing knuckle balls
extended breather(not shown) thread is 1/8" BSPT(British Standard Pipe Thread)
FJ80 Hi-Pinion with elocker 5:29 reverse cut gears
12-31-2013, 10:04 AM
#1633
Registered User
Thread Starter
I'm just getting warmed up for some trips....
starting with a Rausch Creek trip, and/or a simple local run to stretch her legs and shake down.
then not sure if I'll compete this year, but I may attend the workshop in the Fall in Vermont
here:
http://www.vermontoverland.com/vot/
well thats the dream for now.
starting with a Rausch Creek trip, and/or a simple local run to stretch her legs and shake down.
then not sure if I'll compete this year, but I may attend the workshop in the Fall in Vermont
here:
http://www.vermontoverland.com/vot/
well thats the dream for now.
12-31-2013, 12:20 PM
#1634
Front axel looks awesome! I think you'll be happy with the TG knuckleball wiper seals, I've been running them for almost a year and a half, and am real happy with them, no grease seeping past them yet, knuckle ball always looks nice and clean, a lot better than the stock rubber and felts in my opinion. I had a quick question, that small bracket holding your hard brake line to the knuckle, is that something you fabbed, or part off of the old dust shield? I need to do something like that on mine, Thanks, Look forward to seeing yours on all fours!
Last edited by rustED; 12-31-2013 at 12:38 PM.
01-02-2014, 02:40 AM
#1636
Registered User
Thread Starter
Not the greatest pics but seems to be about 7.5" of shock shaft showing. Springs and stops are fully relaxed.
About 7" of shaft on the passenger side.
I know the front springs will relax a bit, and I will be leveling the rear up to match with a shim/block when the Full Float goes in.
About 7" of shaft on the passenger side.
I know the front springs will relax a bit, and I will be leveling the rear up to match with a shim/block when the Full Float goes in.
Last edited by RBX; 11-12-2015 at 10:47 AM.
01-02-2014, 06:26 PM
#1639
Registered User
Thread Starter
I want to install it immediately. But I'm going to make a shim block to level it for now before I install it. The rear in it has 4:10s and the front is 5:29 like the FF rear. Plus I need to get axle shafts. Was going to order TG +5" dirty 30s but I'm afraid it won't be long enough to give full boon the inner splines of the diff so I'm doing to go cut to length from FROR, nitro or diamond since longfieldsuperaxles was bought by TG and they aren't making CTL shafts anymore.
