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Installed Fuel Pressure Gage/Gauge Piggybacked on CSI
UPDATE/LESSON LEARNT: Mount the gage (in my case upside-down) so the glycerin fill hole is on top so it it will not leak.
I get hard-starts (long cranks) occasionally - like a few times in year, so
to help make it easy to monitor pressure and eliminate doubt on the fuel delivery system ...
Parts required:
CSI Banjo bolt to 1/8 NPT adapter from LC Engineering, Search Site for "Fuel Pressure Bolt Kit" or Code "1093076"
Valley instrument 1-1/2 inch dia Glycerin Filled Gage, 0-60 psi, 1/8 NPT, from Northern Tools
Some teflon tape for the NPT threads.
Easy Install! I also took out the CSI to clean it.
Torqued finger-tight... My index and ring fingers on back-up wrench on CSI, thumb on ratchet on LCE banjo bolt. I'm a 135-pound weakling so that should not be too tight, correct?
Fuel pressure with ignition on and fuel pump test connector jumped: 40psi
Turned off fuel pump and pressure held at 38psi for more than 7 minutes.
When engine running cold: pressure at 32psi. Will check later with hot engine.
I've been holding onto this Marshall gauge I got off ebay a while back. Same size and everything but has a black carbon fiber face, and instead of glycerin mine is filled with silicone. That is the MAIN reason I didn't purchase the LCE kit, I couldn't believe theirs comes with a gauge that isn't liquid filled. With the vibration from an engine you would think that would be a no brainer, and with my LCE header I know that needle is going to be jumping around more so without any liquid to help keep it steady.
I've been wanting to buy that LCE banjo bolt but with shipping it sure is expensive. If I had something else to order I would pull the trigger, so I've just been sitting on it until I know for sure I don't want anything else.
Been a few times I would of liked to known of the fuel pressure. I don't think you got it too tight. I will keep your upgrade in mind and would like to get it eventually. Great job and glad you posted the information.
I came across this post a couple weeks ago, from a link to it in another thread. I found it quite interesting so I decided to save the link. In case I ever bothered to try and "fix" this "problem" on my 90. It has the symptoms described. But so does my supposedly "wired correctly" 88, even worse in fact.
So that made me wonder. 2 vehicles with over 200k each. One's wired wrong, but shows the symptoms far less often. One's wired right, but behaves way worse. How's that possible? How come my 90 still has a functioning ignition switch? How does this make any sense? Then this morning it finally dawned on me, pardon the pun. IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!! It's totally wrong. I'd initially thought you'd made a rather convincing argument there. Which, to the untrained eye, it is. I'll give you that much credit.
Anyhow, I'm not going to tear it apart piece by piece. But I will say there is no flaw in the wiring. Because having it wired either which way makes no difference. The relay does indeed serve it's purpose, because there's no way it can't(without removing it from the circuit). The contacts in the relay don't close first. The contacts in the ignition switch are already closed before the contacts in the relay close. So there's no added "stress" there. Because closing the solenoid doesn't require "high current". You can provide 80 amps to it. Doesn't mean it's going to use them all. I think you're probably in the ballpark with 2 amps. Which is diddly squat.
Bottom line...it's a waste of time. You can do that. But it's not going to matter. Unless you're bypassing some already faulty wiring. Which could be the case. If not, you've "fixed" nothing. Because Toyota did nothing "wrong". I also have physical evidence, albeit circumstantial, to show that either way works...for hundreds of thousands of miles. Which also shows that the "wrong" way actually works better than the "right" way. Not to mention enough knowledge of electronics to understand what's really going on there. Which is not at all as you say it is.
And here I thought you were the wiring guru. Of course we all make mistakes. One can't know all there is to know. It's a process that takes time. And hey...adding the kill switch is actually a really good idea. That's the only good reason to be doing it though.
MudHippy - I think Ray's fix is not suggesting the relay is NOT doing it's job, he's saying that there is some fairly high current feeding the relay going thru the ignition switch contacts. I doubt Toyota accidentally did that, the ignition switch can obviously handle it because most of our trucks have spun the starter many many times. But over time, that high current probably pitted the contacts, adding resistance to the path driving the starter. My truck had a LOT of no start clicks, I swapped starters, replaced contacts, still happened. I did Ray's modification because it makes sense in my limited understanding, and I haven't had a no start click since. I think your comments are pretty rude. Maybe the mod doesn't make sense to you and you could explain your understanding a little bit better so we can all benefit from knowing your side of it because I've seen a lot of your posts where you have shared some valuable knowledge, but this post is not helping anyone.
. In case I ever bothered to try and "fix" this "problem" on my 90. It has the symptoms described. But so does my supposedly "wired correctly" 88, even worse in fact...
What makes you say that your 90 is wired incorrectly? This schematic shows it is wired correctly:
Why "supposedly wired correctly" on your 88? What have you done to make sure your 88 is wired correctly? Is it a 22RE? If it is indeed wired correctly, then the solenoid should clunk energetically. If it does, but still does not crank the starter, then the solenoid contacts must be bad.
And your 90... What engine?
Bottom line...it's a waste of time. You can do that. But it's not going to matter. Unless you're bypassing some already faulty wiring. Which could be the case. If not, you've "fixed" nothing. Because Toyota did nothing "wrong". I also have physical evidence, albeit circumstantial,
Then I encourage you to re-wire your truck back to original Toyota wiring like this. Perhaps it will solve you problem - LOL!
Yes, feet of thin wire carrying 12amps running from battery to cabin to ignition wire, back to engine compartment to starter solenoid, is faulty design. If you believe that Toyota wired it correctly doing this, I encourage you to restore your trucks wiring to this. Perhaps it will solve the intermittent issue.
The actual current to energize the solenoid is around 12-amps . I measured with clamp-on Fluke multimeter.
The solenoid actuator on some trucks may work smoother than others, so some may present more mechanical load to the solenoid. The solenoid actuation force needs to overcome that mechanical load combined with the return spring force. With the wrong stock wiring on MID-1986 to 1988 22RE's, power to energize the solenoid run from battery back to the cabin to the ignition switch, back to engine compartment, to the starter solenoid. This causes lots of power loss. Therefore, on some trucks resulting power (lossy) is barely enough to energize to varying extents, depending on temperature, cleanliness of the actuator, mechanical condition of the actuator, etc. Hence, the intermittent nature.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 03-28-2016 at 06:00 PM.
This is a LOOONG thread... I have a question about page 3, "click only start issues"
When I disconnect the start relay and I test wires, I don't get 12V on the one constant wire and I get ZERO ohms between the two thick wires... I DO have the 22R engine and NOT the 22R-E (which I think is just the electronic fuel injection model vs. the carb model of mine)... Does this click only issue encompass the 22R as well? Mine was made May 1986. The symptoms sound similar to my occasional issues in the past. I have rectified by simply buying a new starter but about a year or two later, same problem. So it sounds too similar to this issue! I tried testing the leads to the relay on the firewall with the key not in vehicle and with it turned to ACC, and PWR but not start, still no 12V :-( Truck currently starts fine. Have figured in the past that maybe I needed to replace the heavy gauge battery wires and starter wire to make sure enough amps were traveling.
... I have a question about page 3, "click only start issues"...
When I disconnect the start relay and I test wires, I don't get 12V on the one constant wire and I get ZERO ohms between the two thick wires... I DO have the 22R engine and NOT the 22R-E (which I think is just the electronic fuel injection model vs. the carb model of mine)... Does this click only issue encompass the 22R as well? Mine was made May 1986.
THANKS for verifying for us, and doing your homework.. This is the first time a 22R with a starter relay is mentioned with this problem. My 22R-E was also made in May 1986 has a starter relay, while others made earlier in 1986 do not. I believe this helps confirm that early 1986's-including 22R's with manual transmission were built without a starter relay.
I tried testing the leads to the relay on the firewall with the key not in vehicle and with it turned to ACC, and PWR but not start, still no 12V :-(
Makes sense because as wired the steady 12V wire for load (starter relay) is waiting for ST1 contacts of IGN switch to close. That is the flaw of the wiring.
Truck currently starts fine.
Makes sense because, everybody else who has that problem also says it is intermittent. As I explained earlier, smoother plunger travel, straightER plunger, solenoid plunger, softer spring, cleaner plunger parts, stronger battery, good wiring condition, etc. contribute to hide the problem.
Have figured in the past that maybe I needed to replace the heavy gauge battery wires and starter wire to make sure enough amps were traveling.
That may help to hide the problem, like mentioned above, but the truck would still have the wrong wiring THAT IT CAME OUT OF THE FACTORY WITH.
IF truck has starter relay and has the indications you mentioned (per this quick-guide), yes, the starter relay is wired wrong, IT WAS WIRED WRONG OUT OF THE FACTORY.
Just fix it with a few feet of 12AWG wire, a fuse, and soldering and wiring supplies.
[QUOTE=RAD4Runner;52323181] I believe this helps confirm that early 1986's-including 22R's with manual transmission were built without a starter relay.
ok, I think you are speaking in general terms because mine does have the starter relay... and yes, it is manual transmission... You are saying starting in May '86, all trucks started getting a relay since I confirmed a 22R from May '86 has one??
"Makes sense because as wired the steady 12V wire for load (starter relay) is waiting for ST1 contacts of IGN switch to close. That is the flaw of the wiring."
Soooo, again, making sure I understand.... Since I don't have a constant 12V on the one thick wire going to the relay (with ignition NOT in START), it means the problem is present? Sounded like from the "quick guide", everyone should have 12V there and the real test was to check the resistance between the two thick wires, (which if mine is 0, means the problem exists?)
"Makes sense because, everybody else who has that problem also says it is intermittent. As I explained earlier, smoother plunger travel, straightER plunger, solenoid plunger, softer spring, cleaner plunger parts, stronger battery, good wiring condition, etc. contribute to hide the problem."
I've been telling myself for over 10 yrs with this truck that it had to be the Mexican starter I was getting from Autozone... Cheaper parts... I think I tried the Gold version they sell and even tried a more reputable brand from another autoparts store... all starters seem to have the click issue after a year or two.... smacking the starter sometimes worked... sometimes just continuing to press the clutch in a few different times eventually kicks it in... Disclaimer: I am using my truck to pull a lawn trailer around daily sooooo, hence, the starter gets used 10-15 times a day 5-6 days/wk ;-) Great little truck otherwise ;-) I will work on the mod to fix this issue in the future and see how long my starters last.. Thanks for being a Godsend!
... You are saying starting in May '86, all trucks started getting a relay since I confirmed a 22R from May '86 has one??...
Only Toyota knows for sure, but according to all who have given me feedback regarding this (including on Kid Vermicious' post onT4R), yes.
... Since I don't have a constant 12V on the one thick wire going to the relay (with ignition NOT in START), it means the problem is present?
Correct.
Sounded like from the "quick guide"...
With Ignition NOT in Start position:
1) Everyone should have 12V there (because load power on Pin4 of starter relay should not rely ST1 contacts) AND
2) Resistance between the two thick black wires should be infinity (open - because Pin4 of starter relay should be directly connected to battery-altho fused, not to ST1of ign switch.)
I've been telling myself for over 10 yrs with this truck that it had to be the Mexican starter I was getting from Autozone...
Poor Mexico being made as scapegoat by mistake - LOL!
... I am using my truck to pull a lawn trailer around daily
I used to envy the gardeners/landscapers and the rebels driving the old 80's trucks... Until I got mine
Great little truck otherwise ;-)
ABSOLUTELY. Last truck I'll buy in my lifetime, unless I can afford a 70-Series heh-heh
I will work on the mod to fix this issue in the future and see how long my starters last.. Thanks for being a Godsend!
You Gotta, half-hour job. And you're most welcome.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 06-02-2016 at 04:12 PM.
That is correct. I did this same mod on my 87 4Runner which used to get the "one-click-no-crank." I replaced the starter twice and cleaned the contacts a couple times and still every month or so it'd come back. I did this mod and haven't had an issue since. This was about three years ago.
i was going through some earlier posts in the thread, and came across the ferrite choke discussion. turns out, in my 1987 toyota FSM, the wiring schematic specifically notes a ferrite choke in this location.
EDIT: clearly, i need to read the schematic with my reading glasses. what a dope! it doesn't read "ferrite choke", rather "heater choke". doh! just wanted to make sure i corrected that.
on another note, in getting ready for a cross country vacation, i installed a rear window switch that can be accessed from the cargo area, and works with key off. i placed the rocker switch in the DS rear cubby/pocket, so accidental use should be minimized. works slick, so i should be able to sleep back there and exit easily, without fumbling for keys.
if i get time, i'll do the deck light mod, too, to operate independently from the running lights.
wally
Last edited by wallytoo; 06-26-2016 at 03:22 AM.
Reason: correction
i was going through some earlier posts in the thread, and came across the ferrite choke discussion. turns out, in my 1987 toyota FSM, the wiring schematic specifically notes a ferrite choke in this location.
on another note, in getting ready for a cross country vacation, i installed a rear window switch that can be accessed from the cargo area, and works with key off. i placed the rocker switch in the DS rear cubby/pocket, so accidental use should be minimized. works slick, so i should be able to sleep back there and exit easily, without fumbling for keys.
if i get time, i'll do the deck light mod, too, to operate independently from the running lights.
wally
Hmmm... did u check and saw actual coil, or does it just look like one- like on mine?
Awesome. Best wishes on ur trip. Great to be able to just park and sleep in truck when necessary.
I converted my stock deck light to on-off only night light, and copied deck light switch system to control LED array as real deck light.
I suggest placing new deck light switch closer to tailgate for better access.
Once I started your fix for the click only start problem, I have never had to deal with that issue again. On my own trucks I clean the Starter Relay and replace the contacts in the starter. On a truck for another person I just did the re-wire trick and he is as happy as can be about not have to deal with No Start issues. Thanks for coming up with a fix for that problem.
Some may not always agree with our fixes that work for our problems but it is a take it or leave it solution. This trick works for me and I appreciate it. Thanks again!!!
03-06-2016 | 03:08 PM
