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Got the motor pulled this weekend without too much trouble. Pushing around an engine hoist in a gravel driveway isn't something I'd normally recommend or even do for fun, but I managed to get it up on the porch on a stand and will hopefully do the full tear down this week.
Also took a shot of the Wet Okole Seat covers I got myself for Christmas. They look great and really spruce up the interior. Even though they're already waterproof, I scotch-guarded the crap out of them before I put them in.
we've seen this before....
and here are the cylinders and combustion chambers of the head....
I also noticed that the head gasket I used blocked off a bunch of the coolant holes going into the head. upon the rebuild, I'll make sure I open up all of the passageways and do a full "gasket match" to the actual block for maximum flow of oil and coolant.
More pictures to come as I get the full tear down completed.
Not smart to open up the coolant passages on the gasket.
The passages in the head and block are designed as necessary to insure their continuity when they are cast. They were not necessarily intended to conduct coolant at full cross section.
The head gaskets, genuine Toyota ones at least, are carefully designed with coolant passage holes that balance the coolant flow so as to minimise temp difference extremes in the block and head. Don't alter them.
It seems to me that you have gone out of your way to make any number of easy things hard during this rebuilding odyssey; don't make another mistake.
Seemed to be burning a good amount of oil, you'll have to do your research because I'm not sure but one exhaust valve looks oily and maybe the seal or guide is bad, check everything while it's appart, everything!
Seemed to be burning a good amount of oil, you'll have to do your research because I'm not sure but one exhaust valve looks oily and maybe the seal or guide is bad, check everything while it's appart, everything!
Hi Gillesdetrail, it was definitely burning oil....big time....in all of the cylinders. I had ordered stage 5 hardened SS valve seats and upgraded bronze manganese valve guides that had a custom set of viton style seals for them. Because the machine shop had already done all of the work on the wrong head (oversized valves, seats, guides, etc) and I had to purchase a brand new casting, they simply just didn't install the seats or the guides on this head. That normally wouldn't be such a big thing, but the seals were much different. As you can see in the below photo, the seals for the bronze "Pro" guides are much bigger. These loose seals were causing the valves to literally suck oil down into the cylinders and burn it off. it's my assumption that burning that much oil, that early on, is what caused the rings not to seat and why I'm tearing it down again.
Pro guide seal on the left, stock viton style seal on the right
Hi Gillesdetrail, it was definitely burning oil....big time....in all of the cylinders. I had ordered stage 5 hardened SS valve seats and upgraded bronze manganese valve guides that had a custom set of viton style seals for them. Because the machine shop had already done all of the work on the wrong head (oversized valves, seats, guides, etc) and I had to purchase a brand new casting, they simply just didn't install the seats or the guides on this head. That normally wouldn't be such a big thing, but the seals were much different. As you can see in the below photo, the seals for the bronze "Pro" guides are much bigger. These loose seals were causing the valves to literally suck oil down into the cylinders and burn it off. it's my assumption that burning that much oil, that early on, is what caused the rings not to seat and why I'm tearing it down again.
Pro guide seal on the left, stock viton style seal on the right
The wrong seals didn't let that much oil in, that was a ring problem from jump.
When they decked the block did they have the timing cover to machine it the same as the block?
If not huge mistake.
Gasket matching does not pertain to opening coolant and oil passages, it is only a process for intake to head or exhaust port to exhaust or like that adapter to plenum.
You seem to be falling for snake oil names that companies put on products in hopes that people with little knowledge and deep pockets will buy.
IMO you need to stop, step back, take a breath and build an all stock engine with good parts, the 22r will go 300,000 miles with proper maintenance cant get more bulletproof than that
Timing cover was decked at the same time the block was. Block was honed with a torque plate to the correct grit and 30 degree crosshatch pattern for the rings used.
I rebuilt a civic head and one of my new valve seals popped loose. It burned so much oil, especially after high vacuum situations that i could smoke screen the highway. That was just one seal. So it doesn't necessarily mean his issue was more than just those seals
Timing cover was decked at the same time the block was. Block was honed with a torque plate to the correct grit and 30 degree crosshatch pattern for the rings used.
Carry on
Last edited by SwVa_1stGen; 02-05-2016 at 03:05 AM.
I got the motor completely stripped down yesterday (had to come in to the office and work today).
There wasn't so much as a nick in the crank scraper or on any of the rotating assembly, which is where I assumed the metal clanking noise was coming from. Timing chain was dead on - no issues there....and the bores were mirrors. Obviously there was a ton of build up on the top of the pistons and combustion chambers of the head....but no real indicator to where or why it was burning so much oil other than the wrong seals being installed.
There was a little bit of wear (more than the others) on the #1 rod bearing, but nothing major.
My hope is that once I get the pistons and head cleaned back up and the rings come in (along with all new Clevite 77 rod bearings), that I should be able to get it back together and ready to re-install. However, this is where I'm a bit hesitant.
Did the wrong valve seals really let that much oil into the cylinders....and is that what caused the rings not to seat and the bad reading during the leak down test?
I'm really tempted to drop the other engine I have into it and just see how that works out. That way I could really spend the time and effort I need to double check all of the clearances and measurements in the current motor to make 100% sure it's good to go. I'm fairly torn. I've got a bunch of money into this motor and wanted it to be as strong and bulletproof as possible, but this is the 2nd time I've had to pull it and I'm not even at 5,000 miles.
The other block came from a guy that had just rebuilt it 5,000 miles before (and had the receipts to prove it) and was swapping it out with a newer 4 cylinder turbo. It's bored .60 over, CP forged pistons from LCE, H-beam rods, balanced and blueprinted with a heavier flywheel and exceedy clutch. (it was a steal at $250) I've got a topline head w/ new Italian stainless oversized valves, entire new rocker assembly, and a brand new LCE street (RV1) cam and upgraded springs. Probably the most important thing is that this came out of a running vehicle and wasn't having any problems at the time it was removed.....very tempting to drop this one in there just so I can get my daily driver back.
Kind of at a crossroads.....new bearings and rings come in Thursday...so We'll see what I decide.
I'd put the other running engine in and really take my time with the one you took appart, that's my opinion, it should be fun with a lightweight forged bottom end and a good head.
I'd put the other running engine in and really take my time with the one you took appart, that's my opinion, it should be fun with a lightweight forged bottom end and a good head.
That's the direction I'm leaning. The other motor I have is a "Known running" engine, and was built with just as good if not better components than the one I have built up so far.
I'm also thinking that the lighter weight Keith Black higher compression pistons would probably work better with the dual side draft weber setup I have.
More than likely, that's the direction I'll be going. Especially if I can take Friday off this week so I can have a full 3 day weekend to work on it.
I've read that thread a good while back before I even purchased parts for the motor (and also talked to Tom over at Engnbldr....great guy!....probably the Obi wan Kenobe of 22R's). The rings used were Hastings (not ROCK or any other cheap lower end rings) with ductile iron plasma moly top compression rings with conventional cast iron second rings and 3-piece, standard-tension stainless steel oil rings. All of them measured easily within spec for the ring gap and shouldn't have had a problem seating (except for what I can only imagine was the oil issue from the valve seals).
I have to say....of all of the motors I've pulled apart (which hasn't been that many, but still).....the cylinder walls were down right mirrors. not a scratch or mar anywhere.
There's also another reason I want to get this rig up and running and stop spending all my time and $$$ on getting this engine squared away.......but there will be more to come on that later....
That's the direction I'm leaning. The other motor I have is a "Known running" engine, and was built with just as good if not better components than the one I have built up so far.
I'm also thinking that the lighter weight Keith Black higher compression pistons would probably work better with the dual side draft weber setup I have.
Waiiiitt a minute, you said forged pistons, now you're talking about KB pistons? Aren't they hyper eutectic? And known not to be super reliable (big internet debate, may have to do with specific ring gap or just the rings used, makny of those pistons chip and crack)? I also don't think they are much lighter than stock, and piston choice has nothing to do with induction or injection, cam timing has more to do with that (weber side drafts).
Also, you said the cylinders were mirrors, so no cross hatch or machining marks? I don't know if excessive oil consumption during break in can cause that honestly.
Last edited by gillesdetrail; 02-08-2016 at 03:06 PM.
Waiiiitt a minute, you said forged pistons, now you're talking about KB pistons? Aren't they hyper eutectic? And known not to be super reliable (big internet debate, may have to do with specific ring gap or just the rings used, makny of those pistons chip and crack)?
Also, you said the cylinders were mirrors, so no cross hatch or machining marks? I don't know if excessive oil consumption during break in can cause that honestly.
The current engine I'm having issues with has the .40 over 9.7:1 Keith Black Hyper pistons in it....no chips or scratches on the skirts or faces. I only took the time to clean one of them up, but it looked brand new when I got it clean. Got the rings from the same place as the pistons and they were matched to the right ring size / gap / etc.
The other motor I'm thinking about putting in there has .60 over CP forged pistons with a relocated knock sensor.
I was saying the lighter weight pistons would probably work better with the other head and the dual sidedraft carb setup (for a truck I don't own yet?). I want my daily Driver to have EFI.
1st gen 4runner hilux truck toyota custom design plate bumper for warn 8274 winch without cutting the grill Piaa 4" 510 ion fog lights, driving lights, blinkers, and stinger.
Still a work in progress. I'm going to mock it all up out of cardboard and then masonite.....and finally it will be laser cut 3/16 or 1/8" steel so I will add weld tabs and slots so it doesn't require a jig to weld it up square and can have integrated gussets and light mounting points. I'm planning on making a separate winch plate that mounts to the frame....and the bumper bolts to that and then to the frame (side bar supports). Odd looking cutout on top is so the upper housing of my Warn 8274 can stick through. More than likely will have a removable skid plate.....really just in the design / playing around phase at the moment.
The current engine I'm having issues with has the .40 over 9.7:1 Keith Black Hyper pistons in it....no chips or scratches on the skirts or faces. I only took the time to clean one of them up, but it looked brand new when I got it clean. Got the rings from the same place as the pistons and they were matched to the right ring size / gap / etc.
The other motor I'm thinking about putting in there has .60 over CP forged pistons with a relocated knock sensor.
I was saying the lighter weight pistons would probably work better with the other head and the dual sidedraft carb setup (for a truck I don't own yet?). I want my daily Driver to have EFI.
Oh I see, sorry for the confusion, good job on that bumper!
just playing around with the new bumper design and some picture of a red 4runner I found on google.....****I don't have fender flares or those awesome tires*** was just seeing if the proportions of the stinger were close to correct.....
just playing around with the new bumper design and some picture of a red 4runner I found on google.....****I don't have fender flares or those awesome tires*** was just seeing if the proportions of the stinger were close to correct.....
Really love the bumper.
If you DD'd those thornbird tires, you'd be glad you didn't own them
02-01-2016, 07:46 AM
