irab88's 1993 PickUp Build-Up Thread
10-22-2011, 12:49 PM
#982
order of events:
-exhaust leak near header/head
-remove header and old studs
-install new lce studs
-install header
-exhaust leak from somewhere else near header
-seafoam, found leak near header/collector, maybe
-remove old, replace with new gaskets
-yet another (or possibly the same) leak
just when i thought i had it all figured out, too. the "new" exhaust leak seems quieter, and it shouldn't be in the same place as before. i used the remflex gaskets, and i think that sealed it up there. it could also be that there's a physical hole or crack in the header, which would suck
>sigh< well, i guess i can live with it for now
on another note, i re-checked my timing, and found it to be off by a bit. so i reset it and it sounds a bit better
10-22-2011, 12:57 PM
#984
You have an LCE header? (I thought you was stock.... )... If you DO have a header, I've heard from Ted of engnbldr that the 4-1 headers can have 'header click' which can be almost IMPOSSIBLE to find! lol.
If it's stock exhaust to stock head leaks, etc., .... I feel for ya. My leak that was hard to find was found with seafoam(as I'd mentioned I'm sure).... and it was in the 'seam' on the manifold.... You know what I mean? That casting seam on each side.... Mine had TINY holes in it that only showed when I had some steam from the seafoam comin out of there, ya know?
You'll get it, Ian, you're a persistent/thorough dude! lol
If it's stock exhaust to stock head leaks, etc., .... I feel for ya. My leak that was hard to find was found with seafoam(as I'd mentioned I'm sure).... and it was in the 'seam' on the manifold.... You know what I mean? That casting seam on each side.... Mine had TINY holes in it that only showed when I had some steam from the seafoam comin out of there, ya know?
You'll get it, Ian, you're a persistent/thorough dude! lol
10-22-2011, 01:04 PM
#985
right now i'm enjoying the last bit of nice weather before winter, so i'm not really doing much on the truck right now. that, and i'm out of seafoam and don't feel like going out to get more 
yeah, i'm running stock exhaust. it's just the studs that are lce
i tell ya, if i can find a good deal on nice headers, this stock setup is gone
yeah, i'm running stock exhaust. it's just the studs that are lce
i tell ya, if i can find a good deal on nice headers, this stock setup is gone
11-01-2011, 12:58 PM
#986
i have a nasty oil leak. i don't know the exact location, but it looks like somewhere on the timing cover. i'll get pictures up later tonight, but i know where a lot of my time and money will be going... it might just be easier to buy another 22r-e and swap the two
11-01-2011, 12:59 PM
#987
Registered User
Most likely front oil seal, timing cover gasket or oil pump o-ring. (this is before I actually see the pic.)
If so no need to engine swap it.
If so no need to engine swap it.
11-01-2011, 01:40 PM
#989
Registered User
I'd say the front part of the headgasket too, but I know he had the head off and not just the timing cover so the chance that it is pinched is next to nothing. I don't remember if he used a sleeve-n-seal on the balancer though. Maybe the new front seal wore the groove bigger and is leaking now? You did put grease on that balancer right?
Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 11-01-2011 at 01:42 PM.
11-01-2011, 02:56 PM
#991
ah-ha... ha... haha... you're so funny...
here's the pics:
a friend of mine thinks it's the half-moon plug...
and no sleeve-n-seal. i'm not sure how oil would get on top of the water pump if it were the front main, but i guess i could pull the main pully off and check
here's the pics:
a friend of mine thinks it's the half-moon plug...
and no sleeve-n-seal. i'm not sure how oil would get on top of the water pump if it were the front main, but i guess i could pull the main pully off and check
Last edited by irab88; 11-01-2011 at 02:59 PM.
11-01-2011, 03:21 PM
#992
Registered User
You'd be surprised how far that oil will go when blown by the fan. Did you RTV the half moons?
Could be valve cover gasket but the head looks rather "clean".
On a side note that's about where my leak was pooling up when I toasted the head gasket pulling the timing cover the first time leaving the head on.
What you can kinda do if that's the case there is loosen not remove all the timing cover bolts that goes through the cover into the block and then tighten up some (not too much) on the hidden bolt.
Could be valve cover gasket but the head looks rather "clean".
On a side note that's about where my leak was pooling up when I toasted the head gasket pulling the timing cover the first time leaving the head on.
What you can kinda do if that's the case there is loosen not remove all the timing cover bolts that goes through the cover into the block and then tighten up some (not too much) on the hidden bolt.
Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 11-01-2011 at 03:24 PM.
11-01-2011, 04:25 PM
#993
there's no oil on the fan. i'll get better pics tomorrow morning. and i can pull the pulley and valve cover his weekend. i think i still have some rtv if that is indeed the problem.
what irks me is that i don't know the source of the leak. first the timing chain, then the rockers, then the exhaust manifold, now this. grrrr...
what irks me is that i don't know the source of the leak. first the timing chain, then the rockers, then the exhaust manifold, now this. grrrr...
11-01-2011, 06:37 PM
#994
Hey Ian, .....
Well, this could be a few things(ask me how I know? lol).....BUT, .... more than likely it's either, ........
1. Leaking from the seal where the head meets the timing cover/block(the corners).... if you didn't put RTV there(just a dab, smeared over the corners), it can EASILY leak.
2. Also, as you mentioned, the half moon can leak on the underside or the corners if you didn't RTV the underside of the moon and the corners where the valve cover meets the head-top(lil dab on each side of the half moon).
3. There are a couple timing cover bolts, including the middle/top oil pump bolt(also the AC brace mounting bolt holes, but those are MUCH more likely to leak down and across the pan, like mine did...NOT so messy, usually).
4. The Pulley/Main Seal leaking does NOT necessarily have to hit the fan... in fact, it's not likely until it's really bad. What actually happens is that the "deflector shield" in back of the pulley slings the oil all over the face of the block/timing cover. IF, in fact, there is a TINY imbalance in the deflector... it CAN leak more to one side. However, as that get's increasingly worse(IT WILL if that's the source of the leak).... it will actually sling oil all over the hood's underside, block, exhaust manifold..... BASICALLY, EVERYWHERE! The fan CAN AID in oil traveling all over, ...but if you think about where the oil is coming from, it's more likely to do this simply by 'pushing' the oil via forced air.(BTW, I thought you had an E-fan??)
5. The valve cover can leak at a 'kink' and actually seem to run downward from there.... but considering where you're oil seems to be slathered, ...it looks more likely to be either of the aforementioned #1 or #2 causes.
I would clean it up as best as you can and then give her a go until you see the source of the gooey mess! GRRRRR, indeed! I TOTALLY feel your pain, Ian!
My SUSPICION, purely speculative at this point,..... is that it's the half moon, leaking from the bottom or corners, then dripping down into that crevice and being pushed all over by the fan....The Front main would be my second guess, ...and it's just started. If it really get's gushing, YOU'LL KNOW!.... HOPEFULLY it's not my third guess--- a pinched/kinked HG, leaking where the head meets the block/timing cover(REALLY doubt that, as you did a great job,....but trust me, as I know very well... "you could have done a 22re Magazine Write Up Quality" job and it can still spring a leak...>it happens, Ian, ya know?(I know, .... IT'S STILL PLENTY 'GRRRRRRRRR'!)
FIRST clean her up and then give it a minute running and YOU WILL find the leak, Ian... You've got a keen eye and you're fairly well versed in these lil sewing machine hearts by now, ya know? You'll find it.
Well, this could be a few things(ask me how I know? lol).....BUT, .... more than likely it's either, ........
1. Leaking from the seal where the head meets the timing cover/block(the corners).... if you didn't put RTV there(just a dab, smeared over the corners), it can EASILY leak.
2. Also, as you mentioned, the half moon can leak on the underside or the corners if you didn't RTV the underside of the moon and the corners where the valve cover meets the head-top(lil dab on each side of the half moon).
3. There are a couple timing cover bolts, including the middle/top oil pump bolt(also the AC brace mounting bolt holes, but those are MUCH more likely to leak down and across the pan, like mine did...NOT so messy, usually).
4. The Pulley/Main Seal leaking does NOT necessarily have to hit the fan... in fact, it's not likely until it's really bad. What actually happens is that the "deflector shield" in back of the pulley slings the oil all over the face of the block/timing cover. IF, in fact, there is a TINY imbalance in the deflector... it CAN leak more to one side. However, as that get's increasingly worse(IT WILL if that's the source of the leak).... it will actually sling oil all over the hood's underside, block, exhaust manifold..... BASICALLY, EVERYWHERE! The fan CAN AID in oil traveling all over, ...but if you think about where the oil is coming from, it's more likely to do this simply by 'pushing' the oil via forced air.(BTW, I thought you had an E-fan??)
5. The valve cover can leak at a 'kink' and actually seem to run downward from there.... but considering where you're oil seems to be slathered, ...it looks more likely to be either of the aforementioned #1 or #2 causes.
I would clean it up as best as you can and then give her a go until you see the source of the gooey mess! GRRRRR, indeed! I TOTALLY feel your pain, Ian!
My SUSPICION, purely speculative at this point,..... is that it's the half moon, leaking from the bottom or corners, then dripping down into that crevice and being pushed all over by the fan....The Front main would be my second guess, ...and it's just started. If it really get's gushing, YOU'LL KNOW!.... HOPEFULLY it's not my third guess--- a pinched/kinked HG, leaking where the head meets the block/timing cover(REALLY doubt that, as you did a great job,....but trust me, as I know very well... "you could have done a 22re Magazine Write Up Quality" job and it can still spring a leak...>it happens, Ian, ya know?(I know, .... IT'S STILL PLENTY 'GRRRRRRRRR'!)
FIRST clean her up and then give it a minute running and YOU WILL find the leak, Ian... You've got a keen eye and you're fairly well versed in these lil sewing machine hearts by now, ya know? You'll find it.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 11-01-2011 at 06:38 PM.
11-01-2011, 08:53 PM
#996
Hey Ian, .....
Well, this could be a few things(ask me how I know? lol).....BUT, .... more than likely it's either, ........
1. Leaking from the seal where the head meets the timing cover/block(the corners).... if you didn't put RTV there(just a dab, smeared over the corners), it can EASILY leak.
did that. took a razor blade and made it perfectly flat and even with the timing cover and block
2. Also, as you mentioned, the half moon can leak on the underside or the corners if you didn't RTV the underside of the moon and the corners where the valve cover meets the head-top(lil dab on each side of the half moon).
yeah, i'll try that. it was fine for a good 3-5 thousand miles, so i thought it was ok. guess not
3. There are a couple timing cover bolts, including the middle/top oil pump bolt(also the AC brace mounting bolt holes, but those are MUCH more likely to leak down and across the pan, like mine did...NOT so messy, usually).
i'll clean off the oil that's there now, and watch closely
4. The Pulley/Main Seal leaking does NOT necessarily have to hit the fan... in fact, it's not likely until it's really bad. What actually happens is that the "deflector shield" in back of the pulley slings the oil all over the face of the block/timing cover. IF, in fact, there is a TINY imbalance in the deflector... it CAN leak more to one side. However, as that get's increasingly worse(IT WILL if that's the source of the leak).... it will actually sling oil all over the hood's underside, block, exhaust manifold..... BASICALLY, EVERYWHERE! The fan CAN AID in oil traveling all over, ...but if you think about where the oil is coming from, it's more likely to do this simply by 'pushing' the oil via forced air.(BTW, I thought you had an E-fan??)
there is oil on the underside of the hood, and mainly in the path of anything that can be slung from the belts. and yes, i do have an e-fan. still no oil on it
5. The valve cover can leak at a 'kink' and actually seem to run downward from there.... but considering where you're oil seems to be slathered, ...it looks more likely to be either of the aforementioned #1 or #2 causes.
i agree. most of the head is too clean (relatively speaking)
I would clean it up as best as you can and then give her a go until you see the source of the gooey mess! GRRRRR, indeed! I TOTALLY feel your pain, Ian!
My SUSPICION, purely speculative at this point,..... is that it's the half moon, leaking from the bottom or corners, then dripping down into that crevice and being pushed all over by the fan....The Front main would be my second guess, ...and it's just started. If it really get's gushing, YOU'LL KNOW!.... HOPEFULLY it's not my third guess--- a pinched/kinked HG, leaking where the head meets the block/timing cover(REALLY doubt that, as you did a great job,....but trust me, as I know very well... "you could have done a 22re Magazine Write Up Quality" job and it can still spring a leak...>it happens, Ian, ya know?(I know, .... IT'S STILL PLENTY 'GRRRRRRRRR'!)
FIRST clean her up and then give it a minute running and YOU WILL find the leak, Ian... You've got a keen eye and you're fairly well versed in these lil sewing machine hearts by now, ya know? You'll find it.
Well, this could be a few things(ask me how I know? lol).....BUT, .... more than likely it's either, ........
1. Leaking from the seal where the head meets the timing cover/block(the corners).... if you didn't put RTV there(just a dab, smeared over the corners), it can EASILY leak.
did that. took a razor blade and made it perfectly flat and even with the timing cover and block
2. Also, as you mentioned, the half moon can leak on the underside or the corners if you didn't RTV the underside of the moon and the corners where the valve cover meets the head-top(lil dab on each side of the half moon).
yeah, i'll try that. it was fine for a good 3-5 thousand miles, so i thought it was ok. guess not
3. There are a couple timing cover bolts, including the middle/top oil pump bolt(also the AC brace mounting bolt holes, but those are MUCH more likely to leak down and across the pan, like mine did...NOT so messy, usually).
i'll clean off the oil that's there now, and watch closely
4. The Pulley/Main Seal leaking does NOT necessarily have to hit the fan... in fact, it's not likely until it's really bad. What actually happens is that the "deflector shield" in back of the pulley slings the oil all over the face of the block/timing cover. IF, in fact, there is a TINY imbalance in the deflector... it CAN leak more to one side. However, as that get's increasingly worse(IT WILL if that's the source of the leak).... it will actually sling oil all over the hood's underside, block, exhaust manifold..... BASICALLY, EVERYWHERE! The fan CAN AID in oil traveling all over, ...but if you think about where the oil is coming from, it's more likely to do this simply by 'pushing' the oil via forced air.(BTW, I thought you had an E-fan??)
there is oil on the underside of the hood, and mainly in the path of anything that can be slung from the belts. and yes, i do have an e-fan. still no oil on it
5. The valve cover can leak at a 'kink' and actually seem to run downward from there.... but considering where you're oil seems to be slathered, ...it looks more likely to be either of the aforementioned #1 or #2 causes.
i agree. most of the head is too clean (relatively speaking)
I would clean it up as best as you can and then give her a go until you see the source of the gooey mess! GRRRRR, indeed! I TOTALLY feel your pain, Ian!
My SUSPICION, purely speculative at this point,..... is that it's the half moon, leaking from the bottom or corners, then dripping down into that crevice and being pushed all over by the fan....The Front main would be my second guess, ...and it's just started. If it really get's gushing, YOU'LL KNOW!.... HOPEFULLY it's not my third guess--- a pinched/kinked HG, leaking where the head meets the block/timing cover(REALLY doubt that, as you did a great job,....but trust me, as I know very well... "you could have done a 22re Magazine Write Up Quality" job and it can still spring a leak...>it happens, Ian, ya know?(I know, .... IT'S STILL PLENTY 'GRRRRRRRRR'!)
FIRST clean her up and then give it a minute running and YOU WILL find the leak, Ian... You've got a keen eye and you're fairly well versed in these lil sewing machine hearts by now, ya know? You'll find it.
thanks for that, mark. i'll keep searching, but i'm sure i'll find it.
on a whim this evening, i searched craigslist for any variation of "22re" or "22r" and found that there is a plethora of 4-banger yotas for $2000 and less around here, mostly 1st gen 4runners and 2nd/3rd gen pickups. huh...
11-02-2011, 02:55 AM
#997
Registered User
My money is on the oil pump seal on the crank. I had the exact same issue with the 87 4Runner. Oil was slung up onto the hood, and alternator, well, everywhere.
Do not use a sleeve on the crank, it will wear out, or so i have read many cautionary tails about it.
They are a cheap part, and Toyota changes the gasket so that the newer gaskets won't ride on the old wear groove. You just need a gasket that won't ride in that old grove worn on the crank. I actually bought the engine builder timing kit, and ordered a Beck/Arnley seal from rock auto. I think i used the Beck, because it was furthest from the groove.
I have a thread around here on how to check that the groove against the new seal using a sharpie.
Do not use a sleeve on the crank, it will wear out, or so i have read many cautionary tails about it.
They are a cheap part, and Toyota changes the gasket so that the newer gaskets won't ride on the old wear groove. You just need a gasket that won't ride in that old grove worn on the crank. I actually bought the engine builder timing kit, and ordered a Beck/Arnley seal from rock auto. I think i used the Beck, because it was furthest from the groove.
I have a thread around here on how to check that the groove against the new seal using a sharpie.
11-02-2011, 04:44 AM
#998
Registered User
I used a sleeve on my balancer, I wonder what the failure rate and time is on those. I also greased my seal though when installing same thing with the rear main. So far so good on mine. The only thing that was leaking on mine when I was done is that stupid oil pan gasket that I should have never used. Also using the Rock stuff.
11-02-2011, 04:51 AM
#999
Registered User
^^^ that i do not know.
I had read that the sleeve is a softer metal, therefore wears out quicker and to just find another seal that won't ride in the groove. Actually, Toyota has changed the seal multiple times over the years to avoid having the seal seat in the same groove. It is still advised to examine the seal and groove proximity.
I had read that the sleeve is a softer metal, therefore wears out quicker and to just find another seal that won't ride in the groove. Actually, Toyota has changed the seal multiple times over the years to avoid having the seal seat in the same groove. It is still advised to examine the seal and groove proximity.
11-02-2011, 05:41 AM
#1000
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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I sleeved my crank couple thousand miles back with no problems to date. Also put a new seal in the pump. I would of gone with the Toyota seal if I new about it. Maybe it's leaking where the timing cover and head meet. Sometimes te head gasket gets jacked when people put it back together.
