ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
02-20-2011, 06:57 PM
#1522
Well, guys, I have some videos.... Long and short of it, while the Seafoam stuff DID remove a GANG'O'CRAP out my lines, Box, etc., ...... And, even after bleeding the system really well after flushing the system COMPLETELY, till it's like honey in there, FULLY clean, ........ NOPE, it's still giving me a lil grief.
I really wish I knew EXACTLY what I was listening to, honestly, because it IS(the steering system) LOUDER than it was with my OEM pump, ....and yet, I have no kinking, AT ALL, or locking up along travel, etc., .... as I've been told the Box would most likely cause. I also really doubt, at this point, I have any air or SERIOUS debris(excluding, of course, that some massive chunk wound up somewhere obstructing my joy!GRRRR! haha)
So, here's a couple videos... the last of which I meant to say at the very end, "drive it till I can find a good used pump to run or rebuild". I wish I had another truck like this to toss this pump in and just verify whether it's ANOTHER piece of crap or not. What else can I do?>>>> Buy a steering gear box just to run down my Process of Elimination? NO,lol. If it get's so bad that I can't steer, I'll have no choice, but for now, instead of returning this 3RD FRIGGEN PUMP to Kragen, ....I'm going to find an OEM pump that's good and test it out. Honestly? I REALLY think it is the pump, and I will gladly eat a bug if I'm wrong, ....ok, scratch that, ....I'll eat Sea Urchin, .....Ok, nevermind, how about Turkey Dogs? HATE EM, with a passion! lol.
ONE LAST THING of note! ......... Never mentioned it but a couple times, but when I come to a stop, for months now, it pulls to the left(tries to).... it's just more noticeable right now because my power steering isn't QUITE up to snuff in 'lending me a hand', ya know? Any clues as to why, with ALL new Calipers and cylinders, rotors and pads.... any OTHER reason in the steering, etc., that it would pull to the right when braking?(ONLYYY when at around 20MPH or so, and then at 5MPH or so, it stops.)
Videos....
PS> I'll do more videos of the whole process(how to bleed, flush, Seafoam, then the new OEM pump, maybe an install video(can do it in around 10 Minutes now, lol). Wanna start to organize some of this SPAGHETTI FLIPPIN OUT SOUP! lol. Thanks again, guys, for trying to help me with another MYSTERY!
02-20-2011, 09:57 PM
#1524
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chef you dont think its the new stabalizer do you. the old one (if it had one) may have been just so wore out that when you put the new one on its the resistance that your feeling in the steering wheel like i said before don't know anything bout the steering box just tryn to throw out some ideas seems like you have checked everything there is to check
02-21-2011, 01:07 AM
#1525
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chef in your video when you turned it lock to lock (and hold it there ) I did not hear the pressure relief valve squeal ?? check for that if not pump may not be building enough pressure. cold pump may have pressure, hot pump (expanded metal) lower pressure
02-21-2011, 06:39 AM
#1526
Registered User
mark Im kinda out of Ideas to however I think I do have a spare pump not sure if its oem but I would assume that it is. I also have a spare box around here some where, If it comes down to it and you think I can help we will figure out a way to get it to ya, good luck with this man, I know its frustrateing.
02-21-2011, 09:21 AM
#1528
Registered User
i was just thinking if you grabbed the tire with your hands and forced it to turn, you know while the truck is parked on its weight, just to see if you feel an obstruction, but after all you have said i doubt you would feel something, it really seems like a loss of power assist somehow.
after the three new pumps, it never felt any different, when it happens, between the three? maybe trying a used/loaned/etc. box would be an idea, as this is something that seems to be a constant variable. i am going to go out on a limb and say your belt is in good shape and tight, so by elimination, either pump is not putting out enough pressure, or that pressure is not making it to right place in box when it happens.
after the three new pumps, it never felt any different, when it happens, between the three? maybe trying a used/loaned/etc. box would be an idea, as this is something that seems to be a constant variable. i am going to go out on a limb and say your belt is in good shape and tight, so by elimination, either pump is not putting out enough pressure, or that pressure is not making it to right place in box when it happens.
02-21-2011, 09:23 AM
#1529
Baddest, Mike, Jason, B-Yodaful, ...how's it going, guys?
Baddest, ...I really don't think it's the EMU Stabilizer... Other than adding new pressure, making notice of a tired steer box or 3rd crappy pump.
Mike, when I go to full lock, I believe it makes a "chushhhhhhhhh" sound, I just didn't hold it there. I'll try it again on video to show ya. However, ...I'm wondering, are you saying that the pump's air valve might constantly be open/never opening? The steering system is now louder, AGAIN, than it was with the OEM pump(NOT so loud that it's obviously failed in a particular place, but louder than before)... sounds like the pump either struggling or just being a stinky P.O.C.! lol.
Jason, very cool of ya! Is this just an extra part you have lying around? I might really be interested, bud. Did you have it in something? Did it leak, work, etc.? lol. I think Flat Rate USPS is the cheapest, but not sure, and I have to be sure it's the right one, yeah? If you could tell me, that'd be great(what's it out of?, etc., etc.) Thanks man, very nice of ya!
B-Yodaful, Hey man..... compression suggestions for a new motor, broken in-rings seated- are around 160-170#(170, I believe, is the max... They also suggest it should be within 15# from one cyl to another. Even if it is, 15# is a bit of a leap from one to the next. ***I think certain High Perf. set ups can vary, but for stock, as I said...) Also I think if the motor is really pushing old age(250K or so), like mine, you could have around 115-125# and still run fairly well, as mine did. what's your miles again? I'll look for your build/or otherwise thread.
Dewit! Thanks, man. I'm not trying to be ignorant, I PROMISE, GUYS! hahaha. Yeah, ....Dewit, I couldn't turn the wheel with the tires on the ground, tried. Jacked up, motor off, that's in my video, as other tests/checks are. The only variables that I haven't replaced are the idle up valve on the pump and box. I HAVE replaced the stabilizer, pump 3 times, ....belts are tight enough, idler pulley bearing is new... Noise is like any bearing driven thing 'whuuuuurrrrr' ing away. Listening with a stethoscope, ....I hear no nasty grinding in the pump, but since I never listened to the OEM one, I have no idea if it's too much, less noise, etc., ya know? lol. Dont' know anyone that could loan me a box.... just would hate to swap out that PITA(I'm sure at a healthy price, even at a yard) for nothing, ya know? I wish I could have someone try my steering pump on their working vehicle...or just find a steering air valve on top of the pump for me to try.
I'm calling the yard I know, now, then off to pick-u-part, but it's gonna probably pour again, haha. Not sure if I'll get much done at a yard on a day like today. But you guys know me, I'LL TRY, with all I got! lol. Oh,yeah..... got the day off
Baddest, ...I really don't think it's the EMU Stabilizer... Other than adding new pressure, making notice of a tired steer box or 3rd crappy pump.
Mike, when I go to full lock, I believe it makes a "chushhhhhhhhh" sound, I just didn't hold it there. I'll try it again on video to show ya. However, ...I'm wondering, are you saying that the pump's air valve might constantly be open/never opening? The steering system is now louder, AGAIN, than it was with the OEM pump(NOT so loud that it's obviously failed in a particular place, but louder than before)... sounds like the pump either struggling or just being a stinky P.O.C.! lol.
Jason, very cool of ya! Is this just an extra part you have lying around? I might really be interested, bud. Did you have it in something? Did it leak, work, etc.? lol. I think Flat Rate USPS is the cheapest, but not sure, and I have to be sure it's the right one, yeah? If you could tell me, that'd be great(what's it out of?, etc., etc.) Thanks man, very nice of ya!
B-Yodaful, Hey man..... compression suggestions for a new motor, broken in-rings seated- are around 160-170#(170, I believe, is the max... They also suggest it should be within 15# from one cyl to another. Even if it is, 15# is a bit of a leap from one to the next. ***I think certain High Perf. set ups can vary, but for stock, as I said...) Also I think if the motor is really pushing old age(250K or so), like mine, you could have around 115-125# and still run fairly well, as mine did. what's your miles again? I'll look for your build/or otherwise thread.
Dewit! Thanks, man. I'm not trying to be ignorant, I PROMISE, GUYS! hahaha. Yeah, ....Dewit, I couldn't turn the wheel with the tires on the ground, tried. Jacked up, motor off, that's in my video, as other tests/checks are. The only variables that I haven't replaced are the idle up valve on the pump and box. I HAVE replaced the stabilizer, pump 3 times, ....belts are tight enough, idler pulley bearing is new... Noise is like any bearing driven thing 'whuuuuurrrrr' ing away. Listening with a stethoscope, ....I hear no nasty grinding in the pump, but since I never listened to the OEM one, I have no idea if it's too much, less noise, etc., ya know? lol. Dont' know anyone that could loan me a box.... just would hate to swap out that PITA(I'm sure at a healthy price, even at a yard) for nothing, ya know? I wish I could have someone try my steering pump on their working vehicle...or just find a steering air valve on top of the pump for me to try.
I'm calling the yard I know, now, then off to pick-u-part, but it's gonna probably pour again, haha. Not sure if I'll get much done at a yard on a day like today. But you guys know me, I'LL TRY, with all I got! lol. Oh,yeah..... got the day off
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 02-21-2011 at 09:31 AM.
02-21-2011, 09:39 AM
#1531
Guys, my "YARD" that has everything, Japanese Truck Dism., .....they're a lil pricey, but they ALWAYS have stuff, ya know? The pump? >> 100$...EEK, lol. The Box? >> 125$ if I need it. The Air Valve on top of the Pump?>>(Yes, seperately, lol) 25$ So both the box and pump with valve he would probably do for 250$ Not sure I need another pump, like to try to find that air valve and see if it's always stuck open, etc. But at this point, guys, I'M REALLY running out of spare time to screw with this. lol. I mean, what would a steering shop charge me, ya think, to diagnose my issue? I guess I'll ask around.
Just really getting weary of the 'this and that has now joined the list' stuff, haha. I know, happens to everyone, I'm not special... Just would love to move on to finishing up my Suspension and Locker.
Hope I can score at Pick-u-part, lol. (Jason, ...I really might be interested, buddy, let me know, k? You can PM if you'd like
) lol.
Just really getting weary of the 'this and that has now joined the list' stuff, haha. I know, happens to everyone, I'm not special... Just would love to move on to finishing up my Suspension and Locker.
Hope I can score at Pick-u-part, lol. (Jason, ...I really might be interested, buddy, let me know, k? You can PM if you'd like
) lol.
02-21-2011, 03:55 PM
#1532
HEY GUYS! Update, pretty much, kinda sorta.....lol..... Story for today, ....hopefully winds up being a good one for me! haha...
** Went to my fav dismantler, today, just to pick his brain a bit..... he said, "Yeahhh, hmmmm, I've been doing this 34 years, and know how many of those boxes I've sold? Maybe 10...> Pumps? COUNTLESS, mainly because the same situation as yours. People trade in their OEM pumps for core at some store, only to find the CHINA crap doesn't put out enough pressure for a 4WD.... but just enough for a 2WD(same pump for both). SOOO, try this pump of a 95 4Runner, 2WD.....as you ALWAYS want the 2WD's leftovers for these pumps, ...they do HALF the work of the 4WD of the same year.... This one has 64K on it, grandpa rolled it off a cliff, motor was still running 1 hour later! Take this one, 50$, cuz you're a good customer, and bring it back if it wasn't your problem after all, .... I'm pretty confident it's those Crappy China pumps and your tired Suspension hating on each other. Bring it back if it's not, and I'll apply the 50$ toward the Box w/low miles, ..... AFTER we test the box for ya. Box I'll give you for, ohhhhhhhh, .....75$, ok?" To which I said, "OKAY!" lol. It's in really good shape, no leaking, and with only 64K on it, ....it should tell me, once and for all, if 'A-1 CARDONE IS GARBAGE FROM HELL!' hahahaha.
I'll be glad to put that variable to rest. He said he will test the steering pressure if I want, but he couldn't do it today. He'd let me set it all up and they would operate the equipment. Also, he said they can adjust these Boxes, once they've reached a limit, etc., by dialing in the gears to 'remove the play'(??? lol) . "BUT", he said, "as I was saying, ...... from what you're explaining, having had PINKY SOFT STEERING, then the second you go to these pumps you're having problems? .... Really don't think it's the box. Even if it is, you're better off with an OEM pump, from here or reman'd by a pro, either way."
Sooooo, I think for 50$ to start, I'm on the right path to figuring this out. Even if I do the pump, box, and I find out it's something in the steering/suspension,(bent Pitman, bound ends, Bjoints, etc.), then I'll wait, at that point, till I have the alignment done after my lift and new rod ends, bushings, etc., .......they will be able to find that stuff MUCH easier at that point, ...(if we don't find something already while doing the lift/suspension restore.)
QUESTIONNNNNNNNNNN;
I mentioned that, *When I hit the brakes at around 15-25MPH, .....it pulls to the left. Once I'm down to around 5MPH, it stops pulling* ANY THOUGHTS?
Hope I haven't lost all my guru buddies forever!
hahaha. I swear I'm trying and doing everything I can, properly, to the best of my ability and that time allowed will tolerate... PROMISE! lol.
** Went to my fav dismantler, today, just to pick his brain a bit..... he said, "Yeahhh, hmmmm, I've been doing this 34 years, and know how many of those boxes I've sold? Maybe 10...> Pumps? COUNTLESS, mainly because the same situation as yours. People trade in their OEM pumps for core at some store, only to find the CHINA crap doesn't put out enough pressure for a 4WD.... but just enough for a 2WD(same pump for both). SOOO, try this pump of a 95 4Runner, 2WD.....as you ALWAYS want the 2WD's leftovers for these pumps, ...they do HALF the work of the 4WD of the same year.... This one has 64K on it, grandpa rolled it off a cliff, motor was still running 1 hour later! Take this one, 50$, cuz you're a good customer, and bring it back if it wasn't your problem after all, .... I'm pretty confident it's those Crappy China pumps and your tired Suspension hating on each other. Bring it back if it's not, and I'll apply the 50$ toward the Box w/low miles, ..... AFTER we test the box for ya. Box I'll give you for, ohhhhhhhh, .....75$, ok?" To which I said, "OKAY!" lol. It's in really good shape, no leaking, and with only 64K on it, ....it should tell me, once and for all, if 'A-1 CARDONE IS GARBAGE FROM HELL!' hahahaha.
I'll be glad to put that variable to rest. He said he will test the steering pressure if I want, but he couldn't do it today. He'd let me set it all up and they would operate the equipment. Also, he said they can adjust these Boxes, once they've reached a limit, etc., by dialing in the gears to 'remove the play'(??? lol) . "BUT", he said, "as I was saying, ...... from what you're explaining, having had PINKY SOFT STEERING, then the second you go to these pumps you're having problems? .... Really don't think it's the box. Even if it is, you're better off with an OEM pump, from here or reman'd by a pro, either way."
Sooooo, I think for 50$ to start, I'm on the right path to figuring this out. Even if I do the pump, box, and I find out it's something in the steering/suspension,(bent Pitman, bound ends, Bjoints, etc.), then I'll wait, at that point, till I have the alignment done after my lift and new rod ends, bushings, etc., .......they will be able to find that stuff MUCH easier at that point, ...(if we don't find something already while doing the lift/suspension restore.)
QUESTIONNNNNNNNNNN;
I mentioned that, *When I hit the brakes at around 15-25MPH, .....it pulls to the left. Once I'm down to around 5MPH, it stops pulling* ANY THOUGHTS?
Hope I haven't lost all my guru buddies forever!
hahaha. I swear I'm trying and doing everything I can, properly, to the best of my ability and that time allowed will tolerate... PROMISE! lol.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 02-21-2011 at 03:58 PM.
02-21-2011, 04:19 PM
#1533
Registered User
LOL, I am still watching every post, but this problem is out of my realm of knowledge. Still here with you, wish I had more to add other than it sounds like you got a hell of a deal of that new pump from the yard and that I am glad you are getting away from those China pumps. Fingers crossed that it solves your problems bud.
02-21-2011, 04:26 PM
#1534
LOL, I am still watching every post, but this problem is out of my realm of knowledge. Still here with you, wish I had more to add other than it sounds like you got a hell of a deal of that new pump from the yard and that I am glad you are getting away from those China pumps. Fingers crossed that it solves your problems bud.
hahaha. 
02-21-2011, 06:49 PM
#1537
Dewit, L-Dawg,...lol..... I sure will letcha know! Even after all the times I've had things go either way, .....I'm always still a lil anxious,...at LEAST-"to know, finally, what is the problem!!!!" lol. As I said, either way, it will work or it wont, ya know? One thing, however, is sure, ....EVERY professional that I've actually spoken with, recently, including machinists and even a guy at Aisin has told me, ....."IT'S NOT SOME MYTH or something like that, .... you REALLY DO, ALWAYS, get 10 times the quality, 10 out of 10 times, when you go with Factory Toyota Parts!" ...... especially on the things like (Fuel Pump, Master Cyl, Steering Pump, Air Flow Meter, Spark Plugs, Water Pumps, Oil Pumps, etc., etc. etc., lol).
So I will do this, ....and letcha know. Again, either way, I'll feel better having an OEM pump in there.
Mark
PS> Sorry bout the ridiculous video, hahaha.
Even after all the times I've had things go either way, .....I'm always still a lil anxious,...at LEAST-"to know, finally, what is the problem!!!!" lol. As I said, either way, it will work or it wont, ya know? One thing, however, is sure, ....EVERY professional that I've actually spoken with, recently, including machinists and even a guy at Aisin has told me, ....."IT'S NOT SOME MYTH or something like that, .... you REALLY DO, ALWAYS, get 10 times the quality, 10 out of 10 times, when you go with Factory Toyota Parts!" ...... especially on the things like (Fuel Pump, Master Cyl, Steering Pump, Air Flow Meter, Spark Plugs, Water Pumps, Oil Pumps, etc., etc. etc., lol). So I will do this, ....and letcha know. Again, either way, I'll feel better having an OEM pump in there.
Mark
PS> Sorry bout the ridiculous video, hahaha.
02-21-2011, 07:30 PM
#1539
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I say go for it. The $1200 deal is a decent price if the guy is going to do you right. My girlfriend just paid a mechanic $2000 to do a head gasket, timing, water pump on her 3.0. I am more of the small block V-8 type, lol. Like maybe putting about 400 horses in that runner, lol.
02-21-2011, 10:12 PM
#1540
Hey Zach,.... yeah, ME 2! HAHAHA.
Erix, ..... not sure whatcha mean on the 1200$ thing? Maybe you read the first couple posts of this thread? Which was 62 Pages and 1,539 Posts ago, hehe... Not makin fun, but that's about all I can guess. And, in all actuality, it ended up NOT being such a great deal for me, as I had to tear the motor apart(half way down), around 4 times, including replacing a CAM, re-removing the timing cover and basically, spending a few hundred hours chasing my tail along with these fellas! lol. But, I met MANY good people on here, learned 10 TIMES what I ever would have, would everything have gone 'A-OK', and so, I just look at it as though I gained through a pretty decent loss, lol.
Erix, ..... not sure whatcha mean on the 1200$ thing? Maybe you read the first couple posts of this thread? Which was 62 Pages and 1,539 Posts ago, hehe... Not makin fun, but that's about all I can guess. And, in all actuality, it ended up NOT being such a great deal for me, as I had to tear the motor apart(half way down), around 4 times, including replacing a CAM, re-removing the timing cover and basically, spending a few hundred hours chasing my tail along with these fellas! lol. But, I met MANY good people on here, learned 10 TIMES what I ever would have, would everything have gone 'A-OK', and so, I just look at it as though I gained through a pretty decent loss, lol.
