xxxtreme22r

I think once again the problem lies behind the steering wheel and can be solved by getting some of these:




Hahaha, J/k You'll figure it out chef. Don't worry.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Ian, hope you're good, brudda, ....

Well, what IS the same is this, .....

The 'problem' i have, when I have it, is that it's MUCH harder than it should be to turn. Yes, "it's not constant", but also a yes on "it's fairly consistent in that it's the same problem, every time."... Hope that's what you meant. lol. It's as if I'm driving around, then I stop, try to park, and voila, it's resistant(sometimes more of a pain than others regarding resistance).

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about this, like I do the top end, where I can do anything but guess, as in, "It's more likely mechanical" or "it's got to be air or an obstruction." I find it VERY hard to believe, even though I know it's possible, that 3 PUMPS, in a row, are bad in one way or another. HOWEVER.... my problem with the first one was NOT, IN ANY WAY, 'lack of power assist'. THENNNNNNNNN, when I installed the second, it got tough, then leaked, then simply failed, completely(IT WAS NOT ASSISTING ME IN STEERING AT ALLLLLLL). This one, while it does assist half of the time... it seems as though, ....After driving around a bit, then trying to park, or turn right hard on the wheel to get ready to turn in a lot or a light.....it will suddenly be difficult.

Question, .... Will a steering shop be able to power bleed this system to be CERTAIN there isn't any air? Just wish I knew someone in this arena that I KNEW I could trust.(sorry, i've been ripped off many times....MUCH harder to do to me, at this point in the game, ..but still, most people I know don't know how the box even works, let alone how to test it(other than, 'yep, look at that thing leak like a pig'), ya know?

I'm going to dry up the underside of this pump, really well, then drive around some more, tonight, ...sufficient enough mileage and turning action to where I will definitely find out if this one, YET AGAIN, ANOTHER ONE, is leaking from the body seal(What I mean by body-to-body seal, is, ....The portion where the two parts of the body are held together by 4 bolts) Know what I mean? It's NOT leaking from the shaft, cuz there's NO FLUID anywhere but from around half way back, from the front, ...then onward toward the back.

Sorry Ian, I'm trying to explain, as thoroughly as possible, but I'm probably being redundant....... plus I'm not really learned on this stuff just yet. Trying though hahaha.

xxxtreme22r

One of my stupid crazy questions again, haven't looked at mine to see, but is it possible you mixed up the lines at the pump while changing it out this time?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

No, B, it's actually quite IMpossible, in all honesty, lol. Thanks for double checking though, as one can never be too thorough! The lines are a Rubber Power Steering Hose to an elbow(no threads) for the 'feed' line to the top of the pump from the bottom of the reservoir, .... Second, a line(flanged/retrofit thread) going from the steering box to the side(facing driver fender)of the pump....that's all that goes into the pump, other than the vacuum apparatus on top.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Something else I noticed, not sure if it's telling of ANYTHING, but why not, eh?

*** When I turn the wheel all the way to the right OR left, holding it at it's max... I can REALLLLLY hear a whining in either the pump or the box. I'd have to have someone hold it while I stethoscope it out.(could be both, actually, lol)... Anddddddd, YES, I know at max/bottom out(left or right) that the...I guess it's the box.... makes a bit of "shhhreeeeeeeeeshhhh" kind of noise. Every car I've had does. Just curious if it's telling of a Box Gone Bad(<<<< HAHAHAHAHAHA... AHHHHH, HAHAHAHAHAHA) Sorry, couldn't help it! I needed a laugh, sue me, lol.

I know I'm repeating myself, but NEVER give up your OEM PS Pump without making CERTAIN that it's bad! First, check the o-ring in the return hose(no threads) on top to be CERTAIN it's not leaking. Also check the hose clamp on that one for leakage. THEN, if you find it's actually only leaking from the shaft-seal, REPLACE IT! Do the whole kit while you're at it, but KEEP THAT PUMP! One of the biggest mistake/core-trade in's I've done so far! My OEM was original, 256K and was leaking, THAT'S IT! A great example, in this thread, of 'Trading DOWN when thinking I'm trading up'! Ya know? lol.

PS> Steering box, aftermarket, for this truck? 390$! I'd rather try my luck at pick-u-part if that's the issue I have.... probably 40$, MAX! I could try nearly 10 times before I'd equal the cost of an aftermarket one.... and wind up with a better one!(within reason,of course... I'm sure there are aftermarket ones that are only using the BEST seals, etc..... Problem is, I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONES THOSE ARE, ...do you? hahaha)

PSS> I blew the lines out by blowing air in there, then I would fill up the line again above the box, blow it out again, till I got it to come out FAIRLY clean, but never could get it to come out 'clear', as the stupid book says!(YEAH RIGHT, ...CLEAR, HAHAHAHAHA). Sooooooo, I bring this up because, maybe I did get air in there, one might think, and then couldn't get it back out....yeah, but how come it was even worse, the second pump, before I EVER tried to flush it out at all???????????

Either air is trapped in the box or the box is bad, ....I really think that's what it's going to be. HOPE NOT, just have to be realistic at this point. Can't keep guessing, right?

irab88

iTrader: (4)

idea: is there an idle-up valve for the power steering? if so, try bypassing it (so it's always idling up). it may just be a lack of rpm's to power the system

if not, disregard...

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Ian,

Yeah, from what I think I know, hahaha... the Power Steering Idle Up is right on the plenum, which I THINK works in conjunction with the vacuum valve on top of the pump, itself. The one on top of the pump with two inlets senses when you're turning on the wheel(putting a load), opening a valve inside of itself and allowing the vacuum idle up valve and other port to pull vacuum on the pump valve. The valve on the plenum is also adjustable, allowing the idle to go up more or less when under load of AC or PSteering..... SO, If you know what I'm talking about(I KNOW, I'm not explaining TOO great, but you should know what I mean), .....if you do, then i'm not sure, maybe you could tell me how to 'manufacture' a bypass of that system. I think the only way would be to turn that screw on the plenum-vacuum-idle up valve, all the way out, as much as possible.

One thing I thought of, just now, thanks to you mentioning this.... The valve on the pump itself, it's VERY blackened underneath, and seems to have a bit of residue on it, on the underside of this valve. It's like a drum inside of a drum, ya know? So, when the pump valve senses pressure, it opens it's valve and allows air to be sucked past the other drum.....kind of like an EGR ,....make sense? (And keep in mind, I'M GUESSING that's what it does, hahaha... Just seems to make sense, it's GOT TO pull air in, before the pump, from somewhere..... I think that's how it does it. It's not there to pull air out of the system, etc., ...there's ALWAYS air in the top of the reservoir, ya know? It's only to create a vacuum leak at the valve on the pump, itself, so the idle will go up.

ANYONE? lol.

Only thing is, if that thing was bad(not opening), I would think my idle drop would be MUCH more dramatic, ya know? Something I think I can test, is, blocking off the hoses to the pumps air valve, .... then turn the wheel, seeing if it's droppin any real difference or not. I mean, the idle DOES drop, when turning, but not to the point of 200rpm or anything.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Well, I drove around quite a bit, checked for the pump leakage, ....anywhere, .....and it's dry, completely, all over! Of course, the last one was dry, too, and it failed completely within a couple/few days.

Oh well, I'm gonna jack it up and check for binding/slop in the linkage, ...... and if I can't find anything, I'm not sure what else I can do. I'm going to hit the Pick-u-part, tomorrow, hoping to find a spare pump to rebuild, just for fun(and for the sake of LOGICAL DEDUCTION, EH? lol)...

If you have any thoughts, I'd be grateful, of course. Otherwise, I guess I'll have to hit a steering/alignment specialist. I might do the Suspension mods/restore, first, then see where I'm at from there. However, it just seems that, since I've changed out so many pumps, flushed the lines a bit, ...it might be more likely to be debris or air somewhere trapped in there.

mfwimg82

they are self bleeding just turn wheel lock to lock a couple times when holding at lock you should hear the pressure relief valve kick in. any winning before that could be a loose belt

irab88

iTrader: (4)

as for a by-pass, just use a small pipe that the vac hose can fit snugly over. i guess you could also try turning the a/c on, which has it's own idle-up valve. have you tried jacking the front wheels off the ground and tried turning them? if it's easy to turn like that, then it might be that valve (got a picture of it?)

don't worry, mark. your descriptions are just fine. probably close to how i would describe something

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, Ian(Mike too),

Problem with the AC Idle Up is; ..... No charge, so the safety valve wont allow the AC clutch to engage, thus, idling me up. This is good, because, well, it's probably in need of full servicing, including the oil! lol... So I don't think I want that clutch engaging the compressor, ya know?

Far as jacking it up, when I do, it is so much easier, it's almost like it's doing it by itself. lol. However, I'm not sure how telling that is, Ian, as... Even when I have the motor off, per step 1 instructions of bleeding the steering with new pump, etc., ...It is fairly easy, with no power at all. BUT, maybe you're saying something else here... could you further elaborate? I have to work until 1pm or so, PST, then I'll have a break. I'll check back in on any thoughts you might have.

I know that on the ground, steering system is under MUCH more load, and I'm not sure if you're saying that THIS is when the valve on top of the Pump kicks in and opens, trying to pull air from the Idle up on the plenum...and maybe it's not opening up? DANGIT, I wish I could test my AC idle up, but I need a new trader valve for the Low-Press. side, and a few new cans of Freon. Even then, I'd like to have it dye tested for leaks, ya know? Don't wanna waste ANOTHER 45$ on freon(R12 from Poland, that's the price my friend gets), if, well,it's just gonna leak out in a few weeks/months.

MIKE< hope you're well, bro, ..... It's actually only making a LOT of noise(well, MORE than I'm used to) when at full stuff to left or right. So, yeah, it could be something else causing this.

OH, and Ian, ...I'll get a better pic of it, ...but it's the first thing I point to in the third video down of 4, on the last page, ....The one on top of the Steering Pump. It's like a 1" diameter by one inch height drum with two vacuum hose port knobs sticking out of the top of it. Right behind the dizzy, screws directly into the top of the pump, facing a lil angle toward the rear firewall(Maybe 15*). Anyway, I'll get a pic before I come back from working.

Thanks guys

PS> I was gonna hit the Pick-U-Part today, but it's really raining pretty hard off and on, and this is NOT emergency enough to be out there for that in this rain, lol. OH, and got a video last night of how hard it was raining.... CRAZY, really pouring hard.(My buddy in OR would laugh! hahaha)

irab88

iTrader: (4)

yeah, i just meant to check if the valve is getting stuck shut, and not giving enough power to the system. you said it happens (a lot?) when you stop before turning. that might be because the engine is at such a low rpm that there's no power for hard steering. if you bypassed the idle-up valve (or just temporarily increased idle rpms. why didn't i think of that before), then it would give the steering system the power it needs. that's all i'm getting at

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Here's a lil video, Ian. Anyway, far as what you're saying, it doesn't seem to matter how much gas I give it, when fully stopped.....It just stays stiff, anyway. When I start moving EVEN A LIL bit, (1-3mph???? lol)....it's much easier to turn.

The question I had on that, what you said above Ian, is, .........

*** IF, indeed, it's not getting easier with 1500-2000RPM or so, sitting still, trying to turn... Then could it be that valve on top of the Steering Pump that's not allowing the idle up and vacuum port on the plenum to pull air through itself? What I mean is, YES, it's still kind of stiff at a stand still, even with RPM's up... BUT, is the purpose of that valve not being engaged(I.e.; Does it let air be pulled ON/OUT FROM the pump, making that built up pressure in there draw out into the plenum?) Sorry, hard to explain. My idle DOES drop a lil, just 50rpm or so, when turning the wheel. It shouldn't do that, right? Also, I AM getting a lil 'whurrrring' when turning the wheel while parked, ....NOTHING like when it's at full stuff LF. or RT., but it's a noise that I NEVER heard with my stock OEM pump. Anyway, here's the video... was thinking of using some SeaFoam AutoTrans and Steering Liquid(supposed to loosen clogged steering boxes and RAX.).



Just a lil video from last night. Sorry it's so dark...Was pretty cool, rained REALLY hard, quite a bit.

irab88

iTrader: (4)

i'm out of ideas. my brain just exploded. your system is so far out of whack.

or maybe your system was just super awesome to begin with, and now it's normal, making you think there's a problem

or... nope, that's it


the only things i could think it might possibly be are your steering box and/or mechanical linkages. after that, i'm done. i haven't dealt with power steering too much, so your guess is probably better than mine

sorry i couldn't be of more assistance. i really hope you do figure it out.

xxxtreme22r

Buy my manual steering box and problem solved. both sides will turn the same as your right hand turn.

irab88

iTrader: (4)

ha

...or maybe there's still air in the lines. sneaky air that's set up camp in the depths of the power steering components...

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Could very well be, Ian, as this last time I really flushed it out more than ever, and pushed out what I could by breathing through the tube, over and over. However, I have no foaming....not sure if that matters, lol............

Thanks a lot, Ian, I do very much appreciate your effort! Brandon too, even though he's a smartypants! lol. Jk, .... he's helped me enough to have earned being as smarty as he wants, hahaha.
*******************

Far as where I'm at.... well, I'm where I'm at, as you could see! hahaha. What I'm going to do, however, is this;

1. I got some Seafoam Transmission and Steering System Flush Fluid... i'm going to try it, I mean why not, eh? It's a lil bit of a pain, but certainly not more than installing 3 pumps now! lol.

2. I got an inline filter that goes in the return line. It's listed for my car, and it's got magnetic points in it, to pick up any metals, etc.... I know, most likely, if any metals are floating around, they've lodged somewhere for good! lol. But the filter part can't hurt, then I can remove it, put in a fresh one after fully treating it with the Seafoam stuff, re-filling, etc.

3. I'm going to research more, but if I can't find anything, replace the Idle up assist valve on the pump body-top with one from a Pick-u-part, for the heck of it. I imagine, like any valve(PCV, etc.), this one CAN fail, too.

4. I'm probably going to replace the lines, if they're not too much for aftermarket, and the return hose as well.(I've read that this is #1 IN CAUSE FACTOR for premature failure of pumps and debris caught in important parts of the box-syndrome. These lines have many angles in them, can become REALLY gunked up with stuff. My fluid, even after the 2nd pump, putting in the third, was REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLY nasty. That crap has to be coming from somewhere, and I know it's likely just stuff that was left over in the box, etc., but I've got to try, right?

5. At some point, if none of this helps, I'll have to conclude that my Steering Gear Box is DONE, or nearing it. I'd go from there, what else can I do.

******************************

Sorry that this can't be some simple diagnosis, guys. And honest, I'M REALLY TRYING with every minute I have, to figure it out, read up, learn what I can. I'm just not really educated in the steering boxes inner workings, etc., and yet, I STILL FEEL like it's either ANOTHER bad pump or debris/air caught in the lines. I think flushing it out, properly, with Seafoam stuff for steering, then adding the filter, then trying to check into the pressure valve on top of the pump would be the best/most logical method of P.O.E. .....does anyone agree/disagree? Please, let me know.

OH, btw, WHAT THE HECK, MAN? This is just ridiculous! ....Ok, I feel better now, thanks! lol.

mfwimg82

chef if idle up valve was problem you could give it gas (rev up engine)and steering would get easier. if you turn your wheel all the way one way or the other and hear the pressure relief valve kick in your pump is working. unless a ball joint or bushing is totally bad ready to fall off , The only other thing I could think of would be a self inflicted wound maybe some of the crap you where putting on threads ?? the pump can put out as much as 1500 psi so be careful. again make sure belt is right tension. and system is self bleeding

de6w6it

hey buddy, yet another impossible to diagnose/track down problem, eh?
have you tried steering with the belt off, as in not using the power system at all? if you don't feel any binding, and if it turns real easy when no weight is on the tires, then to me it doesn't sound like there is something mechanicly binding as far as tie rod ends, etc. which would lead to a loss of power assist, not mechanical binding. unless its a chipped gear in the box or something, you think the steering would overcome something like a stuck balljoint, or break it.
what about grabbing a tire and turning it with the truck under its own weight? i know it takes a lot of effort, but you would think you would be able to feel something.
have you taken a look at the steering pump idler pulley? any chance it is providing extra friction causing a belt issue? i had mine seize on me and snap a belt on the highway one time. i smelled something funny, but since was at speed, didn't notice anything with the steering until i took the exit ramp and all of a sudden something felt way off!! very surprising, but was obivous what had happened, and where the smell came from. if you do need one, i haven't found any place other than dealership to get one, but they do have ac idlers, which work except they space out the pulley a hair too far, but i have one on mine that has been holding up fine.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Mike, Dewit, thanks, man!

Well, Hmmmm, Mike, you mentioned the "something on the threads", and yeah, I wanted to avoid it, but the way the pumps are machined, ....I don't know, I couldn't go any tighter without snapping off the flange nut, lol. So, I used a small amount, 3/4 turn, nowhere near the bottom threads, and it sealed up the leaking. The other place I couldn't go any tighter was the idle up assist valve on top of the pump...the vacuum thing. So, again, just a lil bit toward the top, and it sealed. Oh, and thanks, Mike, for the idle up signs of working when at full stuff, ....that makes perfect sense.

Dewit, I hear ya, ....I'll listen in to the idler again, but I actually went to Napa and got a Japanese Replacement Bearing for the idler, as it was starting to freeze up from time to time. It seems to have worked flawlessly since. AND, as far as the turning without the belts, no, ....but I've turned it plenty, per instructions, with the engine off, front end in the air..... NO binding or drama whatsoever.

I didn't really 'FLUSH' it, very much, before the second pump, and that one failed, completely, within 2 days. This one?...FLUSHED as best as I could, but not the way I've now seen on some videos.

The weird thing, to me, is that, ....when it's cold, like at FIRST START IN THE MORNING, ...it doesn't really steer too hard at all. Once I drive around a bit, go to park somewhere, ....voila, it's pretty hard.

And, ONE LAST THING, for now, before I flush it with the Seafoam stuff today,.....At this point, it's no more difficult, really, to the right than to the left, WHENNNNNN it's giving me trouble. Both ways I feel resistance. Could this mean that something wound up in the box or is floating around the box that, now, has made it's way into a center point of obstruction? .............geeesh, this feels like diagnosing a space ship...... how do those work again? hahaha. But hopefully you know what I mean....regarding the "IT'S STICKY BOTH WAYS, NOW, BUT NOT GETTING WORSE DAY BY DAY....pretty much staying the same".

Thanks again, Guys, .....I hope it's something simple man, ....I'm really trying to just get out to visit my father in AZ soon! grrr!

PS> Dewit, .... when you say "grab a tire, etc.", ...could you explain that a Lil more?