ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
02-04-2011, 10:35 PM
#1301
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the only prob im having right now is the idle surging and ive gotn another throttle body to see if that may be the prob i figure that takes care of the throttle postion sensor and what ever that valve is on the bottom that the coolant flows through. ive checked vacume leaks, coolant levels, air mixture screw, cracks in the intake, just bout everything everyone on here has said to check
02-04-2011, 10:59 PM
#1302
Idle surging would usually be TPS or, yes, can be what you mentioned, below down there... the Idle Air Control Valve(It bypasses the throttle body fuel/air mixture and increases idle until the truck reaches operating temp...bout 94* and it's supposed to cut off as the truck goes into open loop) I doubt it's the IACV. TPS can have surging when the IDL-E2 readings are way off. It will go from 800-1500rpm(just an example), back and forth. Also, with the TPS, it usually will bog off the line, then around 2K or 3K(depends), it will take off like a bat out of hell, then sometimes even run fine throughout the rest of the gears. Surging up and down at idle?>...Usually TPS I would think.
Something that caused a bouncing idle for me was the fuel cut system. When idling over 1000 rpm, when you hit the brakes, the fuel is cut off to the injectors. If you are at a light and over 1000rpm....well, in most earlier EFI trucks, it will do that bouncing idle thing.
Something that caused a bouncing idle for me was the fuel cut system. When idling over 1000 rpm, when you hit the brakes, the fuel is cut off to the injectors. If you are at a light and over 1000rpm....well, in most earlier EFI trucks, it will do that bouncing idle thing.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 02-04-2011 at 11:02 PM.
02-04-2011, 11:05 PM
#1303
Time to Crash, 12am.... 18Hr day...DONE! LOL. Plus, funeral tomorrow, so yeah...don't wanna be falling asleep.
Take care, guys, .... PLEASE, if you think of anything that might be a good tip, let me know.
PS> Ted of engnbldr emailed me saying he doesn't like to use sealant on the gasket for the most part, unless the cover or block are pitted, etc. I've heard on the water pump, but not cover. Then again... like I told him,...."PLEASE don't think I'm arguing with you.... just asking"...cuz HE'S THE MAN! lol. Can't hurt to ask though, right? I will be using a lil sealant, very conservatively!
Take care, guys, .... PLEASE, if you think of anything that might be a good tip, let me know.
PS> Ted of engnbldr emailed me saying he doesn't like to use sealant on the gasket for the most part, unless the cover or block are pitted, etc. I've heard on the water pump, but not cover. Then again... like I told him,...."PLEASE don't think I'm arguing with you.... just asking"...cuz HE'S THE MAN! lol. Can't hurt to ask though, right? I will be using a lil sealant, very conservatively!
02-05-2011, 04:06 AM
#1304
Registered User
Hey Dewit! Thanks for stopping in. There's one answer^^^ lol. Worked for him... I'm not sure on how severe it can get, but I know that some have had issues that actually pushed them to running an adjustable gear. XXX, a very helpful homie who posts on here, often?>....I believe he has one. He's Carb'd, but that shouldn't make any difference in the mechanical timing components of the 22r-re. I think it could help, since often, after decking, the timing get's REALLY close to the edge when you're dialing in the dizzy. With that gear, you get a lot more room to play with, from what I understand.
whats the latest on the timing chain set? still touching the rail?
02-05-2011, 08:32 AM
#1305
Yeah, Dewit, it is....
Guys, I heard back from Ted at engnbldr.........
*******************************
From; Ted
To; Chef Mark
"Morning!
Yes, the guide rides on the chain slightly in most cases, as long as the chain does not deflect it's just fine.
Note that coating on it, the chain's side plates bed in until the roller which will be coated with oil contact, this creates two grooves for the chain to ride in for fore/aft stability. It's a really simple design and it works well, the stock guide works the same way.
Slack there allows a slap of the chain to the guide at each firing pulse and you have my phone number...*LOL**.
I use RTV, one tube as long as my finger will do perhaps 5 engines. (Big'uns, like 427" V-8's.) I use it VERY sparingly, having spent about 40+ years digging the stuff out of oil galleys. If any can squeeze inside, it will, hot oil can cause it to move around, string out in molecules where it packs in anyplace it can catch (like the crank oil passages) and then it does it's job.
*Which is to...seal.
Everyone has an opinion on sealers, use your own best judgement there. I say if you have to use a lot, surface the dang thing, because where sealer will do the job, you don't even need a gasket.
Thanks again, and nice to hear from you!
Ted"
**********************************
So, there you have it, from the mouth of a guy who's build HOW MANY MOTORS? lol.
I have to take into consideration, as well, that my timing cover is BRAND SPANKIN NEW, with not a blemish that the human eye could see. Machinist straight edge checks out PERFECT, and it's ready to go. So, I guess I'll go easy on the sealant, but I WILL at least fill that lil cut out on the cover, near the oil pump galley, carefully. It's dead center in the gasket, anyhow, so why not.
I know, guys, ....most EVERY installer has told me, "MINE NEVER LEAKED, NANEE NANEE, NEENER, NEENER!" hahaha, jk.... But SOME, my friends, did not fair so lucky, no matter how careful they were. I think it has lots to do with how the cover is treated when it's removed, ....but I also think it might have to do with the fact that, even though my shop installed sealant only on one side of the cover gasket........they also used WAY TOO MUCH! It was oozing out the sides of the gasket almost everywhere. I PRAY that nothing broke loose, as Ted mentioned.... but at this point, what can I do? I had NOTHING in the oil pan... I mean, it was literally spotless, even in the valley below the drain plug. It also appeared that the guy used sealer on the Oil Pump O-ring...... ??? Just a tiny bit, but I can see it.
Anyway, starting with a new cover, OEM o-ring, t-cover gaskets, pick up tube gasket and Front main seal.... I should be ok, as long as I have everything clean and don't use too much sealant. I'd rather have another leak than an oil starved WHATEVER, lol, ya know?
I have a funeral to attend today.... so no work on it till I get back. Oh, btw, ......the man, the father of my mothers best friend?.......99 YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!!!
Btw, ....THEY HAVE THE SUPERBOWL IN TEXAS,.........NOT THE FRIGID PLACES THE TEAMS ARE FROM.....AND IT'S SNOWING AND ICY?????????? HAHAHAHA! Yotarob... you hitting the Superbowl? Maybe you could drive your Green Machine there, eh? lol.
Guys, I heard back from Ted at engnbldr.........
*******************************
From; Ted
To; Chef Mark
"Morning!
Yes, the guide rides on the chain slightly in most cases, as long as the chain does not deflect it's just fine.
Note that coating on it, the chain's side plates bed in until the roller which will be coated with oil contact, this creates two grooves for the chain to ride in for fore/aft stability. It's a really simple design and it works well, the stock guide works the same way.
Slack there allows a slap of the chain to the guide at each firing pulse and you have my phone number...*LOL**.
I use RTV, one tube as long as my finger will do perhaps 5 engines. (Big'uns, like 427" V-8's.) I use it VERY sparingly, having spent about 40+ years digging the stuff out of oil galleys. If any can squeeze inside, it will, hot oil can cause it to move around, string out in molecules where it packs in anyplace it can catch (like the crank oil passages) and then it does it's job.
*Which is to...seal.
Everyone has an opinion on sealers, use your own best judgement there. I say if you have to use a lot, surface the dang thing, because where sealer will do the job, you don't even need a gasket.
Thanks again, and nice to hear from you!
Ted"
**********************************
So, there you have it, from the mouth of a guy who's build HOW MANY MOTORS? lol.
I have to take into consideration, as well, that my timing cover is BRAND SPANKIN NEW, with not a blemish that the human eye could see. Machinist straight edge checks out PERFECT, and it's ready to go. So, I guess I'll go easy on the sealant, but I WILL at least fill that lil cut out on the cover, near the oil pump galley, carefully. It's dead center in the gasket, anyhow, so why not.
I know, guys, ....most EVERY installer has told me, "MINE NEVER LEAKED, NANEE NANEE, NEENER, NEENER!" hahaha, jk.... But SOME, my friends, did not fair so lucky, no matter how careful they were. I think it has lots to do with how the cover is treated when it's removed, ....but I also think it might have to do with the fact that, even though my shop installed sealant only on one side of the cover gasket........they also used WAY TOO MUCH! It was oozing out the sides of the gasket almost everywhere. I PRAY that nothing broke loose, as Ted mentioned.... but at this point, what can I do? I had NOTHING in the oil pan... I mean, it was literally spotless, even in the valley below the drain plug. It also appeared that the guy used sealer on the Oil Pump O-ring...... ??? Just a tiny bit, but I can see it.
Anyway, starting with a new cover, OEM o-ring, t-cover gaskets, pick up tube gasket and Front main seal.... I should be ok, as long as I have everything clean and don't use too much sealant. I'd rather have another leak than an oil starved WHATEVER, lol, ya know?
I have a funeral to attend today.... so no work on it till I get back. Oh, btw, ......the man, the father of my mothers best friend?.......99 YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!!!
Btw, ....THEY HAVE THE SUPERBOWL IN TEXAS,.........NOT THE FRIGID PLACES THE TEAMS ARE FROM.....AND IT'S SNOWING AND ICY?????????? HAHAHAHA! Yotarob... you hitting the Superbowl? Maybe you could drive your Green Machine there, eh? lol.
02-05-2011, 09:03 AM
#1306
Yeah, the one thing with that RTV is if you put to much, your screwed.
If you dont put enough...Your screwed!
So you have to be real careful of where and how much you lay down.
But ive never heard of using 1 tube for 5 engines....Holy crap! lol
But ill be watching, Dont be surfing yotatech on your phone during the funeral. Resist the urge.
Im anxious to see more progress!!!
If you dont put enough...Your screwed!
So you have to be real careful of where and how much you lay down.
But ive never heard of using 1 tube for 5 engines....Holy crap! lol
But ill be watching, Dont be surfing yotatech on your phone during the funeral. Resist the urge.
Im anxious to see more progress!!!
02-05-2011, 09:09 AM
#1307
Hahahaha, thanks, Bo! lol. Actually, I wont be surfing, as you said, as I don't have net on my phone. The phone has it, but I just HAVE to have boundaries! lol. If I have it on my phone, then people who know me are like "hey, I facebooked you and you didn't answer me in five minutes!" LOL. Jk, but you get the point, right?
Yeah, I'm good w/out it. I DO, however, have the laptop in the garage with me when I'm workin on her. haha. I ONLY, pretty much, am on my email or yotatech... I pretty much avoid everything else, it's FAR too consuming, ya know? lol. I'm an outdoors ALL DAY kinda guy, if I can help it, lol. Thus, my business is 'Marcus Grill'.... and I DON'T MEAN STOVE TOP GRILL, or foreman grill! lol.... nothing wrong with them, they're useful...but LOVE the outdoors, smell of good fruit wood or mesquite, or just a propane grill KICKIN SOME ARSE! LOL. AHHHHHHHHHHH, the fumes! TO THIS DAY, ....I love it, Bo! 24 years!
Yeah, I'm good w/out it. I DO, however, have the laptop in the garage with me when I'm workin on her. haha. I ONLY, pretty much, am on my email or yotatech... I pretty much avoid everything else, it's FAR too consuming, ya know? lol. I'm an outdoors ALL DAY kinda guy, if I can help it, lol. Thus, my business is 'Marcus Grill'.... and I DON'T MEAN STOVE TOP GRILL, or foreman grill! lol.... nothing wrong with them, they're useful...but LOVE the outdoors, smell of good fruit wood or mesquite, or just a propane grill KICKIN SOME ARSE! LOL. AHHHHHHHHHHH, the fumes! TO THIS DAY, ....I love it, Bo! 24 years!
02-05-2011, 09:13 AM
#1308
Hahaha i hear ya man!
Im the same exact way, Except my Wifi wont reach out to the garage
So im constantly relying on the Blackberry to let me know if someone writes on a thread that im subscribed to.
It goes off ALL DAY LONG.
But i dont mind it
And the george forman grill is probably my grandma's best friend.
because "It drains out alllllll the grease from the burger"
But my question is...What good is a burger without grease?
Im the same exact way, Except my Wifi wont reach out to the garage
So im constantly relying on the Blackberry to let me know if someone writes on a thread that im subscribed to. It goes off ALL DAY LONG.
But i dont mind it
And the george forman grill is probably my grandma's best friend.
because "It drains out alllllll the grease from the burger"
But my question is...What good is a burger without grease?
02-05-2011, 09:39 AM
#1309
Hahaha i hear ya man!
Im the same exact way, Except my Wifi wont reach out to the garage So im constantly relying on the Blackberry to let me know if someone writes on a thread that im subscribed to.
It goes off ALL DAY LONG.
But i dont mind it
And the george forman grill is probably my grandma's best friend.
because "It drains out alllllll the grease from the burger"
But my question is...What good is a burger without grease?
Im the same exact way, Except my Wifi wont reach out to the garage
So im constantly relying on the Blackberry to let me know if someone writes on a thread that im subscribed to. It goes off ALL DAY LONG.
But i dont mind it
And the george forman grill is probably my grandma's best friend.
because "It drains out alllllll the grease from the burger"
But my question is...What good is a burger without grease?
Sure, 80/20 Burgers still retain some fat, and THAT'S ACTUALLY GOOD FOR YOU, contrary to many people's thoughts. But 80% of that 'JUICINESS' is Water, not Fat. In fact, when you see all them drippings on the plate?... that's water, clearly, and you can see lil fat droplets resting on top. With the foreman grill...only thing I don't like is that it presses on the burger. It sears very quickly, so that's not all bad, ...but any cook will tell you, "HEY, DON'T PRESS ON THAT BURGER/CHICKEN BREAST/STEAK, nor poke it, or ALL THE WATERS WILL COME OUT!" LOL. Biggest pet peeve of Grill cooks, ..... when a newb or person they're visiting in their home, PRESSES THE CRAP OUT OF SOMETHING ON THE GRILL! Grrrrrrrrrrrr! HAHAHA. Also, "KEEP THOSE FORKS AWAY FROM THAT MEAT, FELLER!" Another rule, lol. TONGS ARE YOUR FRIEND, BO! hahaha.
02-05-2011, 09:42 AM
#1310
PS>The foreman grill is GREAT for pretty much anything,.... just don't press down on it.. just let it do it's thing with the weight of the lid, ya know? Just wanted to clarify that I DO think it's a great tool for most residential kitchens. They make great panera's and grilled cheese gourmet, too! lol. Grilled Veggies, etc., ....it's a good tool, period.
02-05-2011, 09:43 AM
#1311
Haha... actually, the best burgers work this way. SEAR IN ALL THE WATER......quickly as possible, and MUCH OF the grease/fat will find it's way above/outward from the water. Beef is 70% Water, as most meat is...and while hamburger has more fat(80/20 is my first choice) than many steaks, etc., ......it's still VERY high in water content. This is why, when things are well done, they're less juicy.... they've basically steamed away all their inner waters. Think about it this way... Chicken Breast, ..not much fat at all. However, if someone knows how to bake/broil/saute it.... it can be VERY juicy... that's ALL water.
Sure, 80/20 Burgers still retain some fat, and THAT'S ACTUALLY GOOD FOR YOU, contrary to many people's thoughts. But 80% of that 'JUICINESS' is Water, not Fat. In fact, when you see all them drippings on the plate?... that's water, clearly, and you can see lil fat droplets resting on top. With the foreman grill...only thing I don't like is that it presses on the burger. It sears very quickly, so that's not all bad, ...but any cook will tell you, "HEY, DON'T PRESS ON THAT BURGER/CHICKEN BREAST/STEAK, nor poke it, or ALL THE WATERS WILL COME OUT!" LOL. Biggest pet peeve of Grill cooks, ..... when a newb or person they're visiting in their home, PRESSES THE CRAP OUT OF SOMETHING ON THE GRILL! Grrrrrrrrrrrr! HAHAHA. Also, "KEEP THOSE FORKS AWAY FROM THAT MEAT, FELLER!" Another rule, lol. TONGS ARE YOUR FRIEND, BO! hahaha.
Sure, 80/20 Burgers still retain some fat, and THAT'S ACTUALLY GOOD FOR YOU, contrary to many people's thoughts. But 80% of that 'JUICINESS' is Water, not Fat. In fact, when you see all them drippings on the plate?... that's water, clearly, and you can see lil fat droplets resting on top. With the foreman grill...only thing I don't like is that it presses on the burger. It sears very quickly, so that's not all bad, ...but any cook will tell you, "HEY, DON'T PRESS ON THAT BURGER/CHICKEN BREAST/STEAK, nor poke it, or ALL THE WATERS WILL COME OUT!" LOL. Biggest pet peeve of Grill cooks, ..... when a newb or person they're visiting in their home, PRESSES THE CRAP OUT OF SOMETHING ON THE GRILL! Grrrrrrrrrrrr! HAHAHA. Also, "KEEP THOSE FORKS AWAY FROM THAT MEAT, FELLER!" Another rule, lol. TONGS ARE YOUR FRIEND, BO! hahaha.
I am now the designated grill-er at partys and cookouts!
Tongs save lives, When you press on burgers...Bad things happen to good people!!!
Haha no more food talk! I haven't eaten since 9:00 am and im startin to hear some rumble in the jungle.
02-05-2011, 09:45 AM
#1312
K, ..... well, I wont tell you about what I'll be eating today! lol.
Have a good one, and PLEASE, anyone chime in about the timing cover gasket and your experiences, etc., ....or just how panicked you now are that you might have used too much sealant on your tc gasket? lol.
Have a good one, and PLEASE, anyone chime in about the timing cover gasket and your experiences, etc., ....or just how panicked you now are that you might have used too much sealant on your tc gasket? lol.
02-05-2011, 05:30 PM
#1313
Hey guys, .....
Just for S&G, ......I've noticed another topic where SO MANY disagree.....
"Water Pump;.... Sealant on Gasket or not?"
I know, most mechanics use either a simple spray tack or nothing, .....and some guys use a TINY film of RTV.
Just curious what y'all would say.
Just for S&G, ......I've noticed another topic where SO MANY disagree.....
"Water Pump;.... Sealant on Gasket or not?"
I know, most mechanics use either a simple spray tack or nothing, .....and some guys use a TINY film of RTV.
Just curious what y'all would say.
02-05-2011, 05:51 PM
#1315
Cool, Brandon........
I've seen lots of guys saying that, by using RTV, on original covers with original bolts/studs, ....it causes a space/clearance issue, and more often than the leaking, they actually had the pump bolts/studs break off. I know, B, ....there's SO MUCH info that is neither wrong nor right, ya know? hahaha. I have a brand new cover and water pump.... but I don't see any harm in doing a film of gray....so thin that it's not even measurable, lol.
Waiting for Ted's thoughts on the matter. 4crawler says "install the pump and gasket", ....nothing about sealant. I'm pretty sure they use nothing at the factory. Maybe tack to hold it in place?
I also have clear RTV, lol.
I've seen lots of guys saying that, by using RTV, on original covers with original bolts/studs, ....it causes a space/clearance issue, and more often than the leaking, they actually had the pump bolts/studs break off. I know, B, ....there's SO MUCH info that is neither wrong nor right, ya know? hahaha. I have a brand new cover and water pump.... but I don't see any harm in doing a film of gray....so thin that it's not even measurable, lol.
Waiting for Ted's thoughts on the matter. 4crawler says "install the pump and gasket", ....nothing about sealant. I'm pretty sure they use nothing at the factory. Maybe tack to hold it in place?
I also have clear RTV, lol.
02-05-2011, 05:59 PM
#1316
Registered User
If your gonna use anything on it, make sure it's meant for coolant. I would stay away from clear, red, black, ultra-black etc etc. I see people make that mistake all the time. Then complain "I knew I should have used sealant on that". I just wish I had seen the fact I wasn't supposed to use the included oil pan gasket on mine. Gonna have to wait for summer to fix that, even though I believe I got it stopped for now. lol.
02-05-2011, 06:08 PM
#1317
Ahhh, yeah, that pan dealio! lol. Hope you get it sussed away quick, bud. Hey, drive over to Disneyland or something and I'll meet ya so we can knock it out in a couple hours! 
lol.
Yeah, I have "Ultra Gray- Rigid High Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker", "Sensor Safe Blue RTV Silicone Gasket Maker", .... and yeah, the clear. I think the clear is only rated to 70*F
lol. Yeah, I have "Ultra Gray- Rigid High Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker", "Sensor Safe Blue RTV Silicone Gasket Maker", .... and yeah, the clear. I think the clear is only rated to 70*F
02-05-2011, 06:15 PM
#1318
Think I might use a lil TINY bit of lock tite on the studs, too. I've had them back out before, and even with a tiny bit it should still come out ok when it's time. Hopefully, it wont be needed for quite some time.....like 100K OR SO! hahaha.
02-05-2011, 10:47 PM
#1319
Well, the timing cover is no longer naked, lol.. It's bearing a new Water Pump and Oil Pump....
However, I've realized that one of the studs are stripped, and so, I'm going to hit Love Lady Hardware tomorrow(ANYTHING you could possibly need in regards to a rare bolt, etc.,....they'll have it, OR MAKE IT, lol)..... where I'll pick up some studs that are a lillllllll bit longer. When I have them seated up against the rib in the cover body, ....they only protrude enough from the pump to get two, three max turns out of the nuts. GRRR! lol.
My Haynes only lists the V6 in section 3 regarding torque on the water pump bolts/nuts,....and I believe it says 13#. However, I'm thinking I'd be content with 11# max. I've had the bolts snap off and even a stud snap off in there. I will probably just get all new bolts and studs.... why not, eh? Probably 30Cents, each. lol.
Have a great one, guys, ..... hopefully I'll have time to start slapping it together tomorrow! Hope ya'all have a great Superbowl party or whatever you have planned!
However, I've realized that one of the studs are stripped, and so, I'm going to hit Love Lady Hardware tomorrow(ANYTHING you could possibly need in regards to a rare bolt, etc.,....they'll have it, OR MAKE IT, lol)..... where I'll pick up some studs that are a lillllllll bit longer. When I have them seated up against the rib in the cover body, ....they only protrude enough from the pump to get two, three max turns out of the nuts. GRRR! lol.
My Haynes only lists the V6 in section 3 regarding torque on the water pump bolts/nuts,....and I believe it says 13#. However, I'm thinking I'd be content with 11# max. I've had the bolts snap off and even a stud snap off in there. I will probably just get all new bolts and studs.... why not, eh? Probably 30Cents, each. lol.
Have a great one, guys, ..... hopefully I'll have time to start slapping it together tomorrow! Hope ya'all have a great Superbowl party or whatever you have planned!
02-05-2011, 11:16 PM
#1320
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Idle surging would usually be TPS or, yes, can be what you mentioned, below down there... the Idle Air Control Valve(It bypasses the throttle body fuel/air mixture and increases idle until the truck reaches operating temp...bout 94* and it's supposed to cut off as the truck goes into open loop) I doubt it's the IACV. TPS can have surging when the IDL-E2 readings are way off. It will go from 800-1500rpm(just an example), back and forth. Also, with the TPS, it usually will bog off the line, then around 2K or 3K(depends), it will take off like a bat out of hell, then sometimes even run fine throughout the rest of the gears. Surging up and down at idle?>...Usually TPS I would think.
Something that caused a bouncing idle for me was the fuel cut system. When idling over 1000 rpm, when you hit the brakes, the fuel is cut off to the injectors. If you are at a light and over 1000rpm....well, in most earlier EFI trucks, it will do that bouncing idle thing.
Something that caused a bouncing idle for me was the fuel cut system. When idling over 1000 rpm, when you hit the brakes, the fuel is cut off to the injectors. If you are at a light and over 1000rpm....well, in most earlier EFI trucks, it will do that bouncing idle thing.
