ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
07-05-2013, 07:57 PM
#6961
Not sure. .... likely a group one just to be safe. I have plenty of armor and recovery equipment to do a solo trip... Just wanna break it in with Richard, my majority of wheeling/road dawg as of late.
I WILL be doing a trip to the Sierras this summer (richard might join me for part of that one as well)..... Probably over to the Sequoias from there.....Kern River/Lake Isabella/Kings Canyon.
Also gonna do a few day-trips to the Angeles Crest... Tons to do just 1 hour away!....plus WATER! Lol. ... I don't care as much for trips with no running water near by. Big Bear will be fun in that way.
First trip? Sounds like Big Bear,from what i can tell. If they give me coordinates, I may go ahead to make a mini vacation out of it....I NEED ONE, BAD!
I WILL be doing a trip to the Sierras this summer (richard might join me for part of that one as well)..... Probably over to the Sequoias from there.....Kern River/Lake Isabella/Kings Canyon.
Also gonna do a few day-trips to the Angeles Crest... Tons to do just 1 hour away!....plus WATER! Lol. ... I don't care as much for trips with no running water near by. Big Bear will be fun in that way.
First trip? Sounds like Big Bear,from what i can tell. If they give me coordinates, I may go ahead to make a mini vacation out of it....I NEED ONE, BAD!
07-05-2013, 09:50 PM
#6962
Me 2! Hehe
Havasu is in the mid 120's right now.
That sounds horrible!
hahaNearing the Kennedy Meadows turn off, heading north along Kern river, I sometimes head northwest into the Kings Canyon route instead and there are so many cool creepy crawly spots. Unfortunately, SOOOO many places are being designated as protected, and they are starting to really clamp down on anything near water (no parking or driving within 150ft of water)
.....We're losing the OHV areas fast!
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 07-05-2013 at 09:54 PM.
07-05-2013, 11:18 PM
#6963
Registered User
True, when it's 110* in the Owens valley it's pretty dang dry, so not much in the way of bugs. There's a few small fires going up around Mammoth/Lee Vining, though. Anyway, I just hope I'm around when you make your way up, but it's not looking like it this season.
Dropzone, I grew up in Beaverton, and even though it gets dang hot where I live now, it's never been as bad as the one Memorial day(can't remember the year exactly, but probably '96 or '97) it got to 104 in PDX and the Indy race had to be canceled cause the track at PIR was over 120 and the tires were melting instead of getting traction. Too humid in the valley for me.
Dropzone, I grew up in Beaverton, and even though it gets dang hot where I live now, it's never been as bad as the one Memorial day(can't remember the year exactly, but probably '96 or '97) it got to 104 in PDX and the Indy race had to be canceled cause the track at PIR was over 120 and the tires were melting instead of getting traction. Too humid in the valley for me.
07-06-2013, 11:05 AM
#6964
I kinda figured as much in regards to you being home. Either way, I will be up there at some point when you're around, hopefully. Hope you're doing alright, man! Heard about those firemen in AZ.... very sad! Are you out that way right now?
07-06-2013, 12:48 PM
#6966
Couple of things:
Firstly:
My rock lights arrived as USPS promised, woohoo! Lol......
I'm quite impressed with the completeness of the kit and the quality that everything seems to be. The relay for the remote and the remote itself are really solid and even the chain clip for the remote is very solid.
I can't wait to get these on!
*****************************************
Secondly:
been doing a little touch up reading on gauge of wire required to have adequate capacity, especially in regards 2 the additional resistance created by insulating and length of wire.... I found a really good article that I have read before,... And its from a jeep lover, so give me a break? Lol..... First I will post the link and then I will just post the information for easier nabbing for my brothers and sisters on here... Haha.....
http://stu-offroad.com/electrical/elec1/wire-1.htm
[B][I]" What Size Wire to Use?˟
One of the mods that all of us seem to get around to doing is wiring up some kind of electrical device to our Jeep.˟ Off-road lights, power inverters, and stereos are just a few of the things that we often times add to our vehicle.˟˟One question that you should ask before starting on your electrical project is "What size wire should I use?"I got into a discussion about this vary question with some other Jeepers.˟ Rather than quote details from my own personal experience, I turned to one of my reference books that I used in years gone by for electronic construction projects.˟ The data below is pulled from one of the reference tables in this handbook I had sitting on the shelf.The book says we can draw the following loads through the wire if it is a single wire with open air cooling.˟ As long as the ambient air temp is 135 degrees F. or less, we can use:
14 gauge - 32 amps
12 gauge - 41 amps
10 gauge - 55 amps
But, usually we bundle our wires together, and if you are like me and try to slip them into that flexible plastic wire sheathing that keeps them from rubbing the insulation and causing a short, we have to de-rate the current rating.˟ So, we end up with a continuous duty rating of:
14 gauge - 17 amps
12 gauge - 23 amps
10 gauge - 33 amps
It is obvious that by bundling the wires together, we reduce the current carrying capacity because the wire can not dissipate the heat and stay cool like they could when ran as a single wire.So....we now take these same wires and run them through the engine compartment of our beloved Jeep(OR PREFERABLY, TOYOTA! .....end of Chef's cliff notes.... hehe). Granted, a couple of feet, maybe even half of the wire run, is probably down around the front of the Jeep where it is cooler, or where ever it is you have those big old off-road lights mounted. But some of that wiring is under the hood, making a connection to your aux fuse panel or the battery itself.Anyone want to venture a guess how much the current capacity drops when the engine compartment temperature is applied to the wires? (the table didn't cover that) I can guarantee you that the capacity will drop even further.˟ The above ratings are for a maximum wire temperature of 212 degrees F.˟ The ambient temp under the hood might darn near get that hot, and for sure it is more than 135 degrees.Are you still with me? Lets continue....lets plug in some real world values and see what we come up with....
Two 150 watt lights will draw 25 amps. 300/12=25
If we ignore the engine temp issue (and we really can not) and just run our 12 gauge wire with a bundle of other wires to the front bumper, we are already exceeding the safe operating range of the 12 gauge wire, which has been de-rated to 23 amps.˟ It is less considering the added temp of the engine compartment.Sorry folks....anyone that says 10 gauge wire is overkill doesn't understand all of the facts, IMO. You might have a different opinion, but I for one am not going to risk burning my Jeep to the ground because of an extra $5 of wire. It just isn't worth it.We could go on and talk about resistive losses in the various wire gauges....the fact that 12 gauge wire has a 60% higher resistive value per foot than does 10 gauge, and that 14 gauge wire is about 250% higher....but there is no need to. It will only support what was just shown above.Be safe....use 12 gauge for the smaller current runs, 10 gauge for those current eating lights, and 6 or 8 gauge if you are making a heavy current connection at the rear of your vehicle (such as a Quick Air2 or similar).˟ For the really big loads, like a Warn 9000 lb winch, use #2 or larger (Warn ships #2 with their xd9000i)."[B][I]
I think I'm OK regarding the lighting up front on the addicted off road front bumper. That 20 inch flood and spot combo LED light bar is rated at 126 watts... I already have 10 gauge running to a two separate wire split that was being shared by my 2 X 8 inch DC 150 watt halogen off road lights. I believe I had A 30 amp fuse between the lights and power via my auxiliary fuse block... Which is fed by a 4 gauge wire......
However, I am placing 6 lights on the roof rack as follows:
4 x 7" LED Light bars/ 2 spot 30* beam pattern, for the front 2 rectangular slots facing forward. ... 2 flood 60* beam pattern in the same style slots facing the rear. Each light is 36 watt and multiplied by 4 that means that these four lights alone will pull 144 watts.
2 x 12" LED Light bars in flood/60* beam pattern in the center rectangular slots on the driver and passenger side of the roof rack/facing away from the driver and passenger. These are each 72 Watts which means they will push 144 as well.
That's a total of 288 watts and quite a bit of distance that it has to travel from the auxiliary fuse block - to the cabin - through the fender well - and across the underside of the dash - and then up the A pillar - and across the headliner to a hole I have that used to be a CB antenna base (yeah, I'm not sure what the guy was thinking either) . From there all the lights will be fed and it will need to be insulated fairly well at that point. I guess most of the wiring under the hood and through the fender into the cabin does not need to be insulated, but it will travel by some fairly hot areas and the bottom line is there will need to be a long length of wire to feed the roof rack lights. I just need to figure out the distance and then I can decide what gauge wire I want to feed all 6 lights.
I also would love some opinions on how I should why are these because I'm thinking that I do not want the rear facing light to be always hot with the rest of them. This could definitely offend the night drivers behind me, right? I already have an idea for switches and will be changing my current switch that ran to the 8 inch lights to a combination switch panel, hopefully something like RAD, RBX or Ian would think up....
I'm also considering a a tuffy console... The only problem is that I now have a triple stick set up that will definitely be more intrusive. I've been wanting a CB and would likely mount it inside the Tuffy.
I will need to possibly move all of the switches at the front of the console along with the light switches... I've been seriously considering a headliner overhead cargo and light and switch panel. I can't use the type because front to back because of my moon roof. but there are types ago from driver to passenger side that are only a few inches from the windshield that there furthest back point. That is something that will likely wait but for now I need to create slots for the lights. Fortunately my rock lights will work by remote control. So technically the remote control relay is my switch.
************************************
Any thoughts on this would be very appreciated and I just wanted to share that I am continuing to move forward in spite of not having the rig in front of me..... Which I think shows clearly my level of infections due to Toyotaticulitus! Lol
Firstly:
My rock lights arrived as USPS promised, woohoo! Lol......
I'm quite impressed with the completeness of the kit and the quality that everything seems to be. The relay for the remote and the remote itself are really solid and even the chain clip for the remote is very solid.
I can't wait to get these on!
*****************************************
Secondly:
been doing a little touch up reading on gauge of wire required to have adequate capacity, especially in regards 2 the additional resistance created by insulating and length of wire.... I found a really good article that I have read before,... And its from a jeep lover, so give me a break? Lol..... First I will post the link and then I will just post the information for easier nabbing for my brothers and sisters on here... Haha.....
http://stu-offroad.com/electrical/elec1/wire-1.htm
[B][I]" What Size Wire to Use?˟
One of the mods that all of us seem to get around to doing is wiring up some kind of electrical device to our Jeep.˟ Off-road lights, power inverters, and stereos are just a few of the things that we often times add to our vehicle.˟˟One question that you should ask before starting on your electrical project is "What size wire should I use?"I got into a discussion about this vary question with some other Jeepers.˟ Rather than quote details from my own personal experience, I turned to one of my reference books that I used in years gone by for electronic construction projects.˟ The data below is pulled from one of the reference tables in this handbook I had sitting on the shelf.The book says we can draw the following loads through the wire if it is a single wire with open air cooling.˟ As long as the ambient air temp is 135 degrees F. or less, we can use:
14 gauge - 32 amps
12 gauge - 41 amps
10 gauge - 55 amps
But, usually we bundle our wires together, and if you are like me and try to slip them into that flexible plastic wire sheathing that keeps them from rubbing the insulation and causing a short, we have to de-rate the current rating.˟ So, we end up with a continuous duty rating of:
14 gauge - 17 amps
12 gauge - 23 amps
10 gauge - 33 amps
It is obvious that by bundling the wires together, we reduce the current carrying capacity because the wire can not dissipate the heat and stay cool like they could when ran as a single wire.So....we now take these same wires and run them through the engine compartment of our beloved Jeep(OR PREFERABLY, TOYOTA! .....end of Chef's cliff notes.... hehe). Granted, a couple of feet, maybe even half of the wire run, is probably down around the front of the Jeep where it is cooler, or where ever it is you have those big old off-road lights mounted. But some of that wiring is under the hood, making a connection to your aux fuse panel or the battery itself.Anyone want to venture a guess how much the current capacity drops when the engine compartment temperature is applied to the wires? (the table didn't cover that) I can guarantee you that the capacity will drop even further.˟ The above ratings are for a maximum wire temperature of 212 degrees F.˟ The ambient temp under the hood might darn near get that hot, and for sure it is more than 135 degrees.Are you still with me? Lets continue....lets plug in some real world values and see what we come up with....
Two 150 watt lights will draw 25 amps. 300/12=25
If we ignore the engine temp issue (and we really can not) and just run our 12 gauge wire with a bundle of other wires to the front bumper, we are already exceeding the safe operating range of the 12 gauge wire, which has been de-rated to 23 amps.˟ It is less considering the added temp of the engine compartment.Sorry folks....anyone that says 10 gauge wire is overkill doesn't understand all of the facts, IMO. You might have a different opinion, but I for one am not going to risk burning my Jeep to the ground because of an extra $5 of wire. It just isn't worth it.We could go on and talk about resistive losses in the various wire gauges....the fact that 12 gauge wire has a 60% higher resistive value per foot than does 10 gauge, and that 14 gauge wire is about 250% higher....but there is no need to. It will only support what was just shown above.Be safe....use 12 gauge for the smaller current runs, 10 gauge for those current eating lights, and 6 or 8 gauge if you are making a heavy current connection at the rear of your vehicle (such as a Quick Air2 or similar).˟ For the really big loads, like a Warn 9000 lb winch, use #2 or larger (Warn ships #2 with their xd9000i)."[B][I]
I think I'm OK regarding the lighting up front on the addicted off road front bumper. That 20 inch flood and spot combo LED light bar is rated at 126 watts... I already have 10 gauge running to a two separate wire split that was being shared by my 2 X 8 inch DC 150 watt halogen off road lights. I believe I had A 30 amp fuse between the lights and power via my auxiliary fuse block... Which is fed by a 4 gauge wire......
However, I am placing 6 lights on the roof rack as follows:
4 x 7" LED Light bars/ 2 spot 30* beam pattern, for the front 2 rectangular slots facing forward. ... 2 flood 60* beam pattern in the same style slots facing the rear. Each light is 36 watt and multiplied by 4 that means that these four lights alone will pull 144 watts.
2 x 12" LED Light bars in flood/60* beam pattern in the center rectangular slots on the driver and passenger side of the roof rack/facing away from the driver and passenger. These are each 72 Watts which means they will push 144 as well.
That's a total of 288 watts and quite a bit of distance that it has to travel from the auxiliary fuse block - to the cabin - through the fender well - and across the underside of the dash - and then up the A pillar - and across the headliner to a hole I have that used to be a CB antenna base (yeah, I'm not sure what the guy was thinking either) . From there all the lights will be fed and it will need to be insulated fairly well at that point. I guess most of the wiring under the hood and through the fender into the cabin does not need to be insulated, but it will travel by some fairly hot areas and the bottom line is there will need to be a long length of wire to feed the roof rack lights. I just need to figure out the distance and then I can decide what gauge wire I want to feed all 6 lights.
I also would love some opinions on how I should why are these because I'm thinking that I do not want the rear facing light to be always hot with the rest of them. This could definitely offend the night drivers behind me, right? I already have an idea for switches and will be changing my current switch that ran to the 8 inch lights to a combination switch panel, hopefully something like RAD, RBX or Ian would think up....
I'm also considering a a tuffy console... The only problem is that I now have a triple stick set up that will definitely be more intrusive. I've been wanting a CB and would likely mount it inside the Tuffy.
I will need to possibly move all of the switches at the front of the console along with the light switches... I've been seriously considering a headliner overhead cargo and light and switch panel. I can't use the type because front to back because of my moon roof. but there are types ago from driver to passenger side that are only a few inches from the windshield that there furthest back point. That is something that will likely wait but for now I need to create slots for the lights. Fortunately my rock lights will work by remote control. So technically the remote control relay is my switch.
************************************
Any thoughts on this would be very appreciated and I just wanted to share that I am continuing to move forward in spite of not having the rig in front of me..... Which I think shows clearly my level of infections due to Toyotaticulitus! Lol
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 07-06-2013 at 01:01 PM.
07-06-2013, 05:59 PM
#6967
Registered User
you could... put a vertical switch block along the A pillar (like some people put gauges) with the covers so ya could just slide your finger down the pillar an turn um all off couldnt miss they were on either from being behind other things outa sight
its an idea
its an idea
07-06-2013, 07:50 PM
#6968
you could... put a vertical switch block along the A pillar (like some people put gauges) with the covers so ya could just slide your finger down the pillar an turn um all off couldnt miss they were on either from being behind other things outa sight
its an idea
its an idea
18 of these lights is going to definitely cover most everything I need it to.
As far as the additional switch needed for the roof lights/ off road lights in general, I'm high coming up with multiple options.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 07-06-2013 at 07:53 PM.
07-06-2013, 08:57 PM
#6969
Registered User
Awesome. Cant believe that was only $45. Might have to buy some for myself further down the road. Quick question though, That 3M sticky back is the only thing that is gonna hold those lights on? Not trying to put it down but doesnt that seem a bit weenie?
Last edited by Redeth005; 07-06-2013 at 08:59 PM.
07-06-2013, 09:27 PM
#6970
Registered User
that 3m stuff if the surfaces are clean can hold a LOT ive seen it hold emblems on after a crash knocked rips through panels theres the letters stuck on the edge of the rip
07-06-2013, 09:39 PM
#6971
Registered User
mark you could also do these kind of switches along the top edge of your shifter surround where your hand sitting could easily reach
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...metal&_sacat=0
metal durable nearly flat on the surface push to turn on push to turn off so legs pants ect cant accidentally turn on
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...metal&_sacat=0
metal durable nearly flat on the surface push to turn on push to turn off so legs pants ect cant accidentally turn on
Last edited by Cyberhorn The Dragon; 07-06-2013 at 09:41 PM.
07-07-2013, 12:48 AM
#6973
mark you could also do these kind of switches along the top edge of your shifter surround where your hand sitting could easily reach
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...metal&_sacat=0
metal durable nearly flat on the surface push to turn on push to turn off so legs pants ect cant accidentally turn on
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...metal&_sacat=0
metal durable nearly flat on the surface push to turn on push to turn off so legs pants ect cant accidentally turn on
FOB.... This says forward operating base, immediately, in my mind, lol. ... I'm guessing you mean the remote? Sorry man... Just making sure. .. It does have a ninja widiws peak, right? Haha. Thanks man, me too.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 07-07-2013 at 01:05 AM.
07-07-2013, 03:06 AM
#6974
Super Moderator
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Already got another project going. You dont let the grass grow under your feet,lol. That is a neat looking fob and that 3m is some tough stuff if installed correctly.
I will one day have check into extra LEDs and that does look like a great kit.
I will one day have check into extra LEDs and that does look like a great kit.
07-07-2013, 12:41 PM
#6975
Thanks, terry.....and I've had more time without projects than I knew what to do with..... So I just move forward with the plans that I had. I hope to have the lighting on the rack fully ready within a couple weeks. That way I can take it on the first trip. As far as the rock lights they are very very very well built as far as I can see. I really like the ones Toyo posted as well and I've already spoken with that seller, Kacy... I will check these out and see if I need anything else... But for now I'm probably going to be okay with 18 lights underneath. In the pitch black with the truck even shadowing the moon... They should be plenty. Just look at how much light comes out of my little four LED festoon ..... which is 1 watt? Maybe 0.5 actually.
07-07-2013, 01:28 PM
#6977
The lights are very solid and waterproof and the lands even seems very solid. I have plenty of 3m plastic cover, and I think I might do a little cut outs to protect each light lens. Then I can just pull them off and replace them anytime.
07-07-2013, 01:39 PM
#6978
I'm about to bite the bullet on the roof rack lights. I'm likely going to wait until Monday as I made an offer to a company in Santa Monica and I would like to see if they will budge before I just click buy. Know what I mean?
I've asked for thoughts on this and haven't got much response.... And yes of course I understand that it is Independence Day holiday weekend. So that would explain in part why you electronic gurus are throwing any thoughts my way! Lol. Just kidding, and actually I think I have some pretty good ideas. What I was going to ask however was if anyone Thanks that wiring my roof lights into the remote relay would work? I actually think I would rather have a separate remote, or possibly just simply some switches like you just posted on here, William. Thanks again for that by the way!
Either way I will be putting most likely eight 7 inch 2550 LM lights on my CON-FERR rack..... I was going to do for 7 inch lights and then two separate 12 inch lights on each side facing outwards, basically as relative to the truck, if the grill is north and the rear bumper is self... Then the 12 inch lights would be east and west on the rack. The reason I decided to go with 87 inch lights is because the prices around $100 less and with actually more LED's of the same intensity. It's basically like getting to 14 inch lights for $100 less than it would be for me to get two 12 inch lights.
I will be doing all of them flood except for the front two lights which will be spot, then I will have around 7 inches of spot on the 20 inch light bar on the bumper and 14 inches of spots on the roof rack facing forward. It is so simple to remove and install my roof rack and as long as I wire them cleanly and have a quick disconnect ready inside underneath my grommet on the roof... It will be very easy to slap the rock on for any trip that I take.
I've asked for thoughts on this and haven't got much response.... And yes of course I understand that it is Independence Day holiday weekend. So that would explain in part why you electronic gurus are throwing any thoughts my way! Lol. Just kidding, and actually I think I have some pretty good ideas. What I was going to ask however was if anyone Thanks that wiring my roof lights into the remote relay would work? I actually think I would rather have a separate remote, or possibly just simply some switches like you just posted on here, William. Thanks again for that by the way!
Either way I will be putting most likely eight 7 inch 2550 LM lights on my CON-FERR rack..... I was going to do for 7 inch lights and then two separate 12 inch lights on each side facing outwards, basically as relative to the truck, if the grill is north and the rear bumper is self... Then the 12 inch lights would be east and west on the rack. The reason I decided to go with 87 inch lights is because the prices around $100 less and with actually more LED's of the same intensity. It's basically like getting to 14 inch lights for $100 less than it would be for me to get two 12 inch lights.
I will be doing all of them flood except for the front two lights which will be spot, then I will have around 7 inches of spot on the 20 inch light bar on the bumper and 14 inches of spots on the roof rack facing forward. It is so simple to remove and install my roof rack and as long as I wire them cleanly and have a quick disconnect ready inside underneath my grommet on the roof... It will be very easy to slap the rock on for any trip that I take.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 07-07-2013 at 08:50 PM.
07-07-2013, 03:49 PM
#6979
Registered User
sounds like a plan is set mark i dont know much about remote operated relays so dont want to walk my mouth into that which i dont know about
the lights sound good i was looking at a thin pair of them for fog lights to put on my bull bar but havent decided yet want body metal more lol
theres so many waterproof trailer light connectors that would work in your roof hole so ya could seal that hole shut lol im paranoid on roof leaks
lady of the house her 90 needs a new sunroof seal im dreading calling the dealer an findin out its discontinued or something
the lights sound good i was looking at a thin pair of them for fog lights to put on my bull bar but havent decided yet want body metal more lol
theres so many waterproof trailer light connectors that would work in your roof hole so ya could seal that hole shut lol im paranoid on roof leaks
lady of the house her 90 needs a new sunroof seal im dreading calling the dealer an findin out its discontinued or something
