ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
03-22-2013, 10:37 AM
#6181
Hey Cory, sup man? ....
Hnmmmmm, not sure I've ever RTV'd the shafts, as, like the crank, the inner sleeve of the seal lip runs on the outer sleeve of the shaft,...where there are no threads.. Like the front or rear mains? But I'm pretty sure thats where it was leaking out from.
Toyo, THANK YOU for sharing the personal experiences and results. I had zero issues with the 4.30/locked swap for 10k miles or so now.... Many of those miles on long freeway trips. Makes total sense to me, yes! There is a patch-weight plate welded to the d-shaft up by the slip, which I know was Toyota's balancing of the booger. Lol.....
William, this 1 of the note down because I forgot , it looks as if every weight is on the wheels. And wow that has caused me vibrations in the past, I really wouldn't suspect that with something that is occurring under load only, for the most part. I still haven't been able to get up over 55 miles an hour, and I'm not sure I want to, to be honest.
I might just take the drive shaft down to my place and see if I can get a good price for doing the u joints. They seem to be both the same parts numbers.... Does that sound right? Haha. I'm just curious, as they are both the same part number on the box, I'm not kidding. I need to call someone who still carries these, and find out if I'm good to go or if I got 2 of the same u joints what I need 2 different types. I really don't think they look any different to me. I'm pretty sure these are both the same size and The C clip types, right?
I have more to share but my brain is like on a Vulcan mind meld right now, but I'll be back shortly! Hahaha. I still might get the angle picture just for the heck of it, as its seemed to be a problem for some people on the pinion, changing that angle, it cetera. I think mostly just stretching out the driveshaft too far is more often problematic, but that only 2 inch lift? I guess even a quarter inch too much lift pass the limits would cause whatever it's going to cause, Hey? Lol
Hnmmmmm, not sure I've ever RTV'd the shafts, as, like the crank, the inner sleeve of the seal lip runs on the outer sleeve of the shaft,...where there are no threads.. Like the front or rear mains? But I'm pretty sure thats where it was leaking out from.
Toyo, THANK YOU for sharing the personal experiences and results. I had zero issues with the 4.30/locked swap for 10k miles or so now.... Many of those miles on long freeway trips. Makes total sense to me, yes! There is a patch-weight plate welded to the d-shaft up by the slip, which I know was Toyota's balancing of the booger. Lol.....
William, this 1 of the note down because I forgot , it looks as if every weight is on the wheels. And wow that has caused me vibrations in the past, I really wouldn't suspect that with something that is occurring under load only, for the most part. I still haven't been able to get up over 55 miles an hour, and I'm not sure I want to, to be honest.
I might just take the drive shaft down to my place and see if I can get a good price for doing the u joints. They seem to be both the same parts numbers.... Does that sound right? Haha. I'm just curious, as they are both the same part number on the box, I'm not kidding. I need to call someone who still carries these, and find out if I'm good to go or if I got 2 of the same u joints what I need 2 different types. I really don't think they look any different to me. I'm pretty sure these are both the same size and The C clip types, right?
I have more to share but my brain is like on a Vulcan mind meld right now, but I'll be back shortly! Hahaha. I still might get the angle picture just for the heck of it, as its seemed to be a problem for some people on the pinion, changing that angle, it cetera. I think mostly just stretching out the driveshaft too far is more often problematic, but that only 2 inch lift? I guess even a quarter inch too much lift pass the limits would cause whatever it's going to cause, Hey? Lol
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 03-22-2013 at 10:45 AM.
03-22-2013, 11:30 AM
#6182
Registered User
to be honest mark the ujoints they MIGHT have 2 different all depends on the designers my 79 is a 2wh drive an the driveshaft has a slip a double at the rear end a single at the trany an a saddle bearing which i drove it for a trip from houston to calif loaded with my life with a bad saddle bearing
i havent done anything with my runners driveshaft other than look to see if it was there..
i havent done anything with my runners driveshaft other than look to see if it was there..
03-22-2013, 11:50 AM
#6183
Hey William, the u joints are both a single u joint set up, both of the transfer case and of the diff. The in capsulated 1 is going from the tranny to the transfer case, if I remember correctly. I was just wondering if anybody had replace them in new if they were the same part. since these are aftermarket, I think I will have to call an aftermarket purveyor of these types and make sure that I have the right ones, as we all know how parts counter, "experts", have occasionally got a thing or 2 wrong? He he he. Any idea on a fair price? All I have here is a vice ... And many other tools, but none like a press, etcetera. I know 1 of the biggest problems is getting those C clips out. I have no problem with people being honest in saying that I should just have it done, but I think I can say that I at least try to do everything myself right? Hahaha.
03-22-2013, 01:46 PM
#6184
Okayyyyyyyyy, I. .....
Drive shaft specialists had the shaft and is gonna hand em back in 20 min!
Meanwhile, grabbing Panda while I'm waitin cross the street....
40$, not baddddd!
He is a friend of my buddy, I trust him... He Said rear is toast, front isn't even worth a paperweight! Haha
Drive shaft specialists had the shaft and is gonna hand em back in 20 min!
Meanwhile, grabbing Panda while I'm waitin cross the street....
40$, not baddddd!
He is a friend of my buddy, I trust him... He Said rear is toast, front isn't even worth a paperweight! Haha
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 03-22-2013 at 01:53 PM.
03-22-2013, 02:18 PM
#6185
Registered User
well if they say its toast then guess ya found the issue!
yeah i know bout parts counter people paid for the pilot bearing for my truck friend went by to get it ..wrong bearing they took a week to get a chevy 350 pilot bearing for a 22re toytota.... oyve they said they'd have the right one here tomorrow
yeah i know bout parts counter people paid for the pilot bearing for my truck friend went by to get it ..wrong bearing they took a week to get a chevy 350 pilot bearing for a 22re toytota.... oyve they said they'd have the right one here tomorrow
03-22-2013, 07:30 PM
#6186
In a rush, shot this to at least show I'm trying to get this sussed asap and keep ya all updated as best as I can 
PS: after talking again with the owner of drive shaft masters, he said that they were not horrific, but they could definitely have been contributing for a while now 2 some out of balance stuff. I guess we'll find out... I promise to update as soon as I know anything, and if anybody can see the video, it's simply showing the condition of the output shaft flange, companion flange to the driveshaft from the transfer case..., plus some other details. What I'm asking in there is whether or not the output shaft of the transfer case should have absolutely 0 movement, or if a tiny bit is acceptable. Also, within the splines that slide over the output shaft, inside the flange, there was a ring of what seemed to be sealant, and the same color sealant on the threads, but absolutely no sealant in the nut itself. It's very unlike me to do this type of job without following every instructions which I got from 4 crawler... So either No sealant stuck to the nut, or the grey sealant that I am seeing is just left over. Again that is very unlike me, and I feel like I remember putting some behind the washer on top of the washer and on the threads of the shaft itself..., but I just can't be sure.
From here, it's going to be 1 step at a time, including the new U joints, cleaned up seal, re grease, install flange and new output shaft nut, torque down the drive shaft with the new u joint action, and go from there. I'm wondering if I'm likely to find some by break in from the new joints wearing in..., I guess time will tell, in very little time, as I have to have this ready in short notice. Kind of a bummer, but I'm very happy with the springs... So I'll just have to work through this.
1 other thing but I think I mentioned is that my trans has no fourth gear while using the clutch , I have to dry shift it, which it does with no problem at all... And for some time, I believe the output shaft of the trans was leaking into the transfer case, causing it to be over full... But right now, both the trans and the transfer case seem to have exactly the right amount of fluid and both would look excellent even after 12,000 mile. You're sharing because I do have some issues with the trans, not sure if it would cause problems with the transfer case or not. Just need to know if that tiny bit of play , in an outward from center directions, regarding the output shaft is really serious, or pretty normal at 270,000 miles?..... If I had to guess I would say it's moving maybe 1 thousandths of an inch or so? In other words, when adjust the valve, I go to 7 thousandths and 9 thousandths with my 261 crawler cam, but I am NOT feeling that much movement... I can't say exactly if it's half that or what, and I don't really have a way to tell you precisely how much is moving... So I'll just throw it up there for now and see what you guys think. Thanks again guys for helping me out with this... I just wanted to be a good and tight rig that I can take on expeditions not have to be freaked out about this or that that I could have prevented. still always learning everyday, and I appreciate it
PS: after talking again with the owner of drive shaft masters, he said that they were not horrific, but they could definitely have been contributing for a while now 2 some out of balance stuff. I guess we'll find out... I promise to update as soon as I know anything, and if anybody can see the video, it's simply showing the condition of the output shaft flange, companion flange to the driveshaft from the transfer case..., plus some other details. What I'm asking in there is whether or not the output shaft of the transfer case should have absolutely 0 movement, or if a tiny bit is acceptable. Also, within the splines that slide over the output shaft, inside the flange, there was a ring of what seemed to be sealant, and the same color sealant on the threads, but absolutely no sealant in the nut itself. It's very unlike me to do this type of job without following every instructions which I got from 4 crawler... So either No sealant stuck to the nut, or the grey sealant that I am seeing is just left over. Again that is very unlike me, and I feel like I remember putting some behind the washer on top of the washer and on the threads of the shaft itself..., but I just can't be sure.
From here, it's going to be 1 step at a time, including the new U joints, cleaned up seal, re grease, install flange and new output shaft nut, torque down the drive shaft with the new u joint action, and go from there. I'm wondering if I'm likely to find some by break in from the new joints wearing in..., I guess time will tell, in very little time, as I have to have this ready in short notice. Kind of a bummer, but I'm very happy with the springs... So I'll just have to work through this.
1 other thing but I think I mentioned is that my trans has no fourth gear while using the clutch , I have to dry shift it, which it does with no problem at all... And for some time, I believe the output shaft of the trans was leaking into the transfer case, causing it to be over full... But right now, both the trans and the transfer case seem to have exactly the right amount of fluid and both would look excellent even after 12,000 mile. You're sharing because I do have some issues with the trans, not sure if it would cause problems with the transfer case or not. Just need to know if that tiny bit of play , in an outward from center directions, regarding the output shaft is really serious, or pretty normal at 270,000 miles?..... If I had to guess I would say it's moving maybe 1 thousandths of an inch or so? In other words, when adjust the valve, I go to 7 thousandths and 9 thousandths with my 261 crawler cam, but I am NOT feeling that much movement... I can't say exactly if it's half that or what, and I don't really have a way to tell you precisely how much is moving... So I'll just throw it up there for now and see what you guys think. Thanks again guys for helping me out with this... I just wanted to be a good and tight rig that I can take on expeditions not have to be freaked out about this or that that I could have prevented. still always learning everyday, and I appreciate it
03-22-2013, 07:41 PM
#6187
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If the output shaft seal is leaking I'd look at the output bearing too... if you can replace it easily might as well at the same time... on the new U-joints I'd get grease-able ones... never have to worry again... just grease 'em up when you do everything else...
also a nice way to make the monkey cry if you go to one of those $30 lube and oil places for a change once in a while when you don't feel like doing it yourself... heh heh heh...
used to do that at a place I trusted... then Shell closed the Rapidlube bay...
also a nice way to make the monkey cry if you go to one of those $30 lube and oil places for a change once in a while when you don't feel like doing it yourself... heh heh heh...
used to do that at a place I trusted... then Shell closed the Rapidlube bay...
03-22-2013, 09:37 PM
#6188
If the output shaft seal is leaking I'd look at the output bearing too... if you can replace it easily might as well at the same time... on the new U-joints I'd get grease-able ones... never have to worry again... just grease 'em up when you do everything else...
also a nice way to make the monkey cry if you go to one of those $30 lube and oil places for a change once in a while when you don't feel like doing it yourself... heh heh heh...
used to do that at a place I trusted... then Shell closed the Rapidlube bay...
also a nice way to make the monkey cry if you go to one of those $30 lube and oil places for a change once in a while when you don't feel like doing it yourself... heh heh heh...
used to do that at a place I trusted... then Shell closed the Rapidlube bay...
I was hoping to get input from y'all on "how much is too much"/"Is ANY too much", regarding the play in the T-Case output shaft.........?
If I can get away with putting sealant on the certain things, trying it out w/the new u-joints, and dont get any vibration, obviously that would be great! If not, then go from there....
I was hoping to run this drivetrain would last me through this motor, as I plan to 3RZ her after this one hits the proverbial 'end of the road'.... but apparently it is not the plan my drivetrain/etc had! >.< Hehe
03-22-2013, 10:49 PM
#6189
Registered User
boss IMO any play in it is bad just leads to seal fail an even failure of the case of the bearing an seal (vibration damage)
but i honestly dont know how much play is allowed in the flange
but i honestly dont know how much play is allowed in the flange
03-22-2013, 11:04 PM
#6190
I'll start with the rubber bit. Looks like form in place, @1:15, when you start flipping it over notice the "backside" isn't uniform if it was a factory molded bit it'd be uniform.
Can't make out the shaft play, but it's definately not as much as we were seeing in the flange. There is a thrust measurment given for the gear 0.30mm, which would be borderline perceivable maybe, and axial for the ball bearings(main front and rear) as 0.15mm. These are set with various sized(thickness) clips, wear components(?). No info for the bearing "slop" tolerance. I'd expect little to no give. But of course it gets hot and expands so a little clearance is a good thing. Have to go with your gut here if you don't find it excessive it probably isn't.
The flange to shaft surface. The Rf or was it the Vf (doh), one of the manual sections (newer Tcase?) gives the part number for the SST flange puller. So I'd expect that to fit tight. I mean there is no slop on the other end right? And it is a highspeed part. I suspect it just wasnt torqued down enough. I mean yeah sure it was at 90# but that doesn't preclude it binding up early or the gasket goo interferin'. use less goo, tighten and break it loose a few times, and give it a couple taps with a soft hammer, and retorque it again.
Might could go a little overspec on the torque. Hunt up a torque chart and count the TPI? And finally worst case it should be the flange that spread out, the shaft is hardened. Toss a salvaged output flange on it.
Can't make out the shaft play, but it's definately not as much as we were seeing in the flange. There is a thrust measurment given for the gear 0.30mm, which would be borderline perceivable maybe, and axial for the ball bearings(main front and rear) as 0.15mm. These are set with various sized(thickness) clips, wear components(?). No info for the bearing "slop" tolerance. I'd expect little to no give. But of course it gets hot and expands so a little clearance is a good thing. Have to go with your gut here if you don't find it excessive it probably isn't.
The flange to shaft surface. The Rf or was it the Vf (doh), one of the manual sections (newer Tcase?) gives the part number for the SST flange puller. So I'd expect that to fit tight. I mean there is no slop on the other end right? And it is a highspeed part. I suspect it just wasnt torqued down enough. I mean yeah sure it was at 90# but that doesn't preclude it binding up early or the gasket goo interferin'. use less goo, tighten and break it loose a few times, and give it a couple taps with a soft hammer, and retorque it again.
Might could go a little overspec on the torque. Hunt up a torque chart and count the TPI? And finally worst case it should be the flange that spread out, the shaft is hardened. Toss a salvaged output flange on it.
03-23-2013, 10:46 AM
#6191
hahaha... I KNOW someone of micrometer-guru status must know this! Haha... Pr lo bably wabbit or 4crawler or TED or TOD or Zuk..... but alas, I really hate to take their time if they're not looking to share it o.O .... hehehe. I'm still looking though I'll start with the rubber bit. Looks like form in place, @1:15, when you start flipping it over notice the "backside" isn't uniform if it was a factory molded bit it'd be uniform.
Can't make out the shaft play, but it's definately not as much as we were seeing in the flange. There is a thrust measurment given for the gear 0.30mm, which would be borderline perceivable maybe, and axial for the ball bearings(main front and rear) as 0.15mm. These are set with various sized(thickness) clips, wear components(?). No info for the bearing "slop" tolerance. I'd expect little to no give. But of course it gets hot and expands so a little clearance is a good thing. Have to go with your gut here if you don't find it excessive it probably isn't.
The flange to shaft surface. The Rf or was it the Vf (doh), one of the manual sections (newer Tcase?) gives the part number for the SST flange puller. So I'd expect that to fit tight. I mean there is no slop on the other end right? And it is a highspeed part. I suspect it just wasnt torqued down enough. I mean yeah sure it was at 90# but that doesn't preclude it binding up early or the gasket goo interferin'. use less goo, tighten and break it loose a few times, and give it a couple taps with a soft hammer, and retorque it again.
Might could go a little overspec on the torque. Hunt up a torque chart and count the TPI? And finally worst case it should be the flange that spread out, the shaft is hardened. Toss a salvaged output flange on it.
Can't make out the shaft play, but it's definately not as much as we were seeing in the flange. There is a thrust measurment given for the gear 0.30mm, which would be borderline perceivable maybe, and axial for the ball bearings(main front and rear) as 0.15mm. These are set with various sized(thickness) clips, wear components(?). No info for the bearing "slop" tolerance. I'd expect little to no give. But of course it gets hot and expands so a little clearance is a good thing. Have to go with your gut here if you don't find it excessive it probably isn't.
The flange to shaft surface. The Rf or was it the Vf (doh), one of the manual sections (newer Tcase?) gives the part number for the SST flange puller. So I'd expect that to fit tight. I mean there is no slop on the other end right? And it is a highspeed part. I suspect it just wasnt torqued down enough. I mean yeah sure it was at 90# but that doesn't preclude it binding up early or the gasket goo interferin'. use less goo, tighten and break it loose a few times, and give it a couple taps with a soft hammer, and retorque it again.
Might could go a little overspec on the torque. Hunt up a torque chart and count the TPI? And finally worst case it should be the flange that spread out, the shaft is hardened. Toss a salvaged output flange on it.
Its possible that I didnt develop this leak AND shutter until after the OMEmu - leap a lil higher. But I can't be sure if the slightly sloppy u-joints caused it. (The driveshaft dude told me they weren't in fact "terrible" after a closer look... but they weren't optimal either. He felt he would likely start fresh with new for sure if he increased/changed the angle....that I should give it a shot to find out before going too much deeper. "Really easy to drop a shaft later if it doesnt solve the issue."
Also: It appears as though the top of the splines where the FIPG ring I pulled out it cut deeper, almost as if its recessed there more, but I realize that's not likely as it would have to be 1 pieces there... Rather, I think that portion where the rubber ring formed is clearly "STARTING WHERE THE THREADS START/SPLINES END on theshaft portion. Changing angle caused that rubber ring to break free from the threads and maybe washer in just a MICRO level, but enough to leak a teeny bit.
WUTCHA THINKA MY NON-SCIENTIFIC THEORY??? Hahaha
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 03-23-2013 at 10:54 AM.
03-23-2013, 11:38 AM
#6192
Registered User
works with me mark i do know ujoints sometimes get used to being in a certain way they wear in had a Ujoint fail just weeks after changing a rear end seal (my old chevy)
03-23-2013, 01:20 PM
#6193
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I was just skimming through your thread but I caught something about sealant for the companion flange.
I remember packing mine really really well with the orange/red fipg and letting it sit for 24hrs before driving. Also put some thread locker on that nut before staking it. I thought I was being an overkill, but maybe it really does need to be packed in there that well to prevent leakage?
I remember packing mine really really well with the orange/red fipg and letting it sit for 24hrs before driving. Also put some thread locker on that nut before staking it. I thought I was being an overkill, but maybe it really does need to be packed in there that well to prevent leakage?
03-23-2013, 04:44 PM
#6198
My neighbor thinks bending it might not be wise. . He took a good look and thinks I should either cut the welds to the support and just move the front 1/2" in. .. or drop it some amd angle drill/step bit-oval out the mounting holes on the tank (the bolts go up into fixed nuts in the welded in mounting bracket
haha)
03-23-2013, 05:04 PM
#6200
Already gave my advice on the flange mount so I can skip right to the tank rub 
Yep bend that bad boy. I see what looks the top section is formed over the lower, there is a small lip there yes? Bending it down should lessen the chances of it seperating, and you can clamp it outside of the bend area also for abit more piece of mind.
OR trim it with tin snips and brush on some por15.
I've probably said all that already. except the bend it down part. Now that I've seen a better view. If you bend it up that lip has a chance of snagging on the visegrips and would put more pressure on the upper section than the lower, which could pop a weld loose.
You can get by with using fender washers instead of panel pliers or even some scrap wood.
Anyways if you wind up with a busted seal that is not cracked metal por15 will seal it right up, IIRC it's fuel safe or they have a specific blend for fuel tanks.
Yep bend that bad boy. I see what looks the top section is formed over the lower, there is a small lip there yes? Bending it down should lessen the chances of it seperating, and you can clamp it outside of the bend area also for abit more piece of mind.
OR trim it with tin snips and brush on some por15.
I've probably said all that already. except the bend it down part. Now that I've seen a better view. If you bend it up that lip has a chance of snagging on the visegrips and would put more pressure on the upper section than the lower, which could pop a weld loose.
You can get by with using fender washers instead of panel pliers or even some scrap wood.
Anyways if you wind up with a busted seal that is not cracked metal por15 will seal it right up, IIRC it's fuel safe or they have a specific blend for fuel tanks.
