ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
06-03-2010, 09:22 PM
#501
Forgot to mention but it could i say could be the ecu. Best bet on that one is salvage yard or ebay. That will be the cheapest. I've seen one go out in all the time ive driven and known toyota drivers. Long shot i know but it like any thing could happen. Shoot 4crawler a pm and maybe he'll chime in with some answers. He knows his stuff.
06-03-2010, 09:31 PM
#502
Thanks Mighty Mouse......
1. I'll check the plugs, tomorrow.
2. I'll figure out which way I should go on the TPS tomorrow as well, after replacing the Thermo-Temp-Time Switch(the one in the Thermostat housing, on top)
3. I have a spare TB gasket....I'll figure that out tomorrow, too.(which way to do it, on or off)
4. NO Check engine lights and NO CODES, not since it threw an 02 code, ....when replacing it with the denso, ...it's cleared and not returned since.(also did that before the build, but it's like brand new and wasn't dropped, etc.)
5. I will check the fuel lines....but I smell NO FUEL, anywhere. I've not checked, however, for 'crimped lines'....will do. Like a moron, I replaced the CSI banjo-crush gaskets and Damper-Banjo crush gaskets, ....ONLY AFTER they initially leaked like a pig. lol. But, since then, no leaks, .....don't think I have any front to back, but I'll check.
6. When I remove the TPS connector, it idles up a lil(USED TO DO IT ALOT, BEFORE THE BUILD), but doesn't really smooth out the miss-hiccuping, ya know? Maybe it's just getting worse and worse?
The way it's pupping in the exhaust, missing a lil, even when smooth, still has me leaning toward a sensor, but COULD BE ANYTHING, in my mind, at this point! Heck, I've heard of guys having spiders in their TPS(WTH?) AND THEY WORKED FINE when removing the spider and web. I DID remove the TPS, when reeming out my TB, but I marked it, fairly meticulously, before removing it.....and like I said, it's JUST like before I ever touched it.
1. I'll check the plugs, tomorrow.
2. I'll figure out which way I should go on the TPS tomorrow as well, after replacing the Thermo-Temp-Time Switch(the one in the Thermostat housing, on top)
3. I have a spare TB gasket....I'll figure that out tomorrow, too.(which way to do it, on or off)
4. NO Check engine lights and NO CODES, not since it threw an 02 code, ....when replacing it with the denso, ...it's cleared and not returned since.(also did that before the build, but it's like brand new and wasn't dropped, etc.)
5. I will check the fuel lines....but I smell NO FUEL, anywhere. I've not checked, however, for 'crimped lines'....will do. Like a moron, I replaced the CSI banjo-crush gaskets and Damper-Banjo crush gaskets, ....ONLY AFTER they initially leaked like a pig. lol. But, since then, no leaks, .....don't think I have any front to back, but I'll check.
6. When I remove the TPS connector, it idles up a lil(USED TO DO IT ALOT, BEFORE THE BUILD), but doesn't really smooth out the miss-hiccuping, ya know? Maybe it's just getting worse and worse?
The way it's pupping in the exhaust, missing a lil, even when smooth, still has me leaning toward a sensor, but COULD BE ANYTHING, in my mind, at this point! Heck, I've heard of guys having spiders in their TPS(WTH?) AND THEY WORKED FINE when removing the spider and web. I DID remove the TPS, when reeming out my TB, but I marked it, fairly meticulously, before removing it.....and like I said, it's JUST like before I ever touched it.
06-03-2010, 09:56 PM
#507
Ok, he's got one in his inbox! I'd be so grateful for his help, either way, Mouse! I really appreciate people spending their precious time trying to help me out! I'm a grandpa, now, at 41~!!!!!!!! lol....BUT NONETHELESS A GRANDPA, ya hear me boy? lol hahaha. Jk, What I mean is, I UNDERSTAND how hard it is to make time for family, let alone some guy with 'MYSTERY PROBLEMS'.....so i mean it, to all you guys....I'M VERY GRATEFUL!
4Crawler, if you happen to stroll on this post, just go back to page 20, ......I believe most everything I could possibly explain in relation to the motors behavior will be on there.
Welpppppppp, I'm off to bed, HUGE day tomorrow, especially trying to squeeze this thing in on top of work and watching the Grand-BB! lol.
4Crawler, if you happen to stroll on this post, just go back to page 20, ......I believe most everything I could possibly explain in relation to the motors behavior will be on there.
Welpppppppp, I'm off to bed, HUGE day tomorrow, especially trying to squeeze this thing in on top of work and watching the Grand-BB! lol.
06-04-2010, 02:12 AM
#508
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
4crawler (roger) is legendary for his deep knowledge and excellent write-ups. hist site is full of "cheap tricks" and stuff like that and is what i used in addition to my other literature in doing my project.
06-04-2010, 09:40 AM
#509
Hery Jerry,
Thanks. Yeah, he messaged me back, this morning. He's mentioned the EGR-Modulator-BVSV relationship, ......He mentioned checking the vacuum diagrams, making sure they're correct hookups. I numbered every hose and connector, and it's doing exactly the same thing as before I touched a single line, even before the build, but OF COURSE I'll check, what can it hurt, eh? However, his mentioning the EGR/MODULATOR/BVSV has me very curious on a couple things. If you remember, the smog man had mentioned, "The Modulator can go out, and does, more often, before the EGR, and it can wreak havoc. Clean the EGR out and the tube on Modulator to EGR, carefully, and see if that helps." I cleaned out the EGR as best as I could, without damaging it. I also did a shallow ream of the Modulator pipes, but they were fairly clean. I also hooked up the vacuum, Number to Number, ...but I'm going to check that again anyhow. Seems odd though, because like I said, it's doing the same thing. Maybe the EGR or Modulator or MAYBE THE BVSV are going south? If the vacuum lines are correct on those, I'm not sure how to check them other than what cougar suggested, "Blocking the EGR to Upper Intake Pipe" (Any further ideas on that??)
He, 'Roger', also, actually first, mentioned the TPS, but reminded me to not throw money at it. lol.....and I SWEAR, I'm trying to avoid that, guys, promise! lol. It's just that, well, I've exhaustively checked the AFM and TPS and IACV and I can't seem to read an "obvious" problem with them. I also can't even be SURE that my problem is temperature related....it just seems so with it's symptoms. It's likely, but I just can't pinpoint it, exactly, until I SOLVE the problem.
I really appreciate his response, and I'm STILL trying to locate a buddy that has the same truck. His ran perfect, about 3 months ago, and I figured, "maybe I can swap out some things, one at a time, and see if my problem goes away or even alters, ya know? Diagnosing and possibly resetting the TPS, using his 4crawler TPS guide(need to find that again....new computer, no bookmark, lol) will be another move before replacing it. I can return it, anytime, and I got it for 25% off, on the shelf, so I figured, why not have it in case IT IS the problem(I just can't bolt it in).
Well, I am going to head out, once I find his TPS page, recheck with my AFM diagnosis printout and track down the vacuum(forgot to mention that the dealer looked at that, first, and he didn't find anything incorrect.....but as I said, best to check). Then I"ll see where I'm at. I'm just wondering, is there any way to bypass the Modulator, or EGR, or BVSV that would help to diagnose this? Just a lil frustrated, BUT PUSHIN ON! LOL.
Thanks. Yeah, he messaged me back, this morning. He's mentioned the EGR-Modulator-BVSV relationship, ......He mentioned checking the vacuum diagrams, making sure they're correct hookups. I numbered every hose and connector, and it's doing exactly the same thing as before I touched a single line, even before the build, but OF COURSE I'll check, what can it hurt, eh? However, his mentioning the EGR/MODULATOR/BVSV has me very curious on a couple things. If you remember, the smog man had mentioned, "The Modulator can go out, and does, more often, before the EGR, and it can wreak havoc. Clean the EGR out and the tube on Modulator to EGR, carefully, and see if that helps." I cleaned out the EGR as best as I could, without damaging it. I also did a shallow ream of the Modulator pipes, but they were fairly clean. I also hooked up the vacuum, Number to Number, ...but I'm going to check that again anyhow. Seems odd though, because like I said, it's doing the same thing. Maybe the EGR or Modulator or MAYBE THE BVSV are going south? If the vacuum lines are correct on those, I'm not sure how to check them other than what cougar suggested, "Blocking the EGR to Upper Intake Pipe" (Any further ideas on that??)
He, 'Roger', also, actually first, mentioned the TPS, but reminded me to not throw money at it. lol.....and I SWEAR, I'm trying to avoid that, guys, promise! lol. It's just that, well, I've exhaustively checked the AFM and TPS and IACV and I can't seem to read an "obvious" problem with them. I also can't even be SURE that my problem is temperature related....it just seems so with it's symptoms. It's likely, but I just can't pinpoint it, exactly, until I SOLVE the problem.
I really appreciate his response, and I'm STILL trying to locate a buddy that has the same truck. His ran perfect, about 3 months ago, and I figured, "maybe I can swap out some things, one at a time, and see if my problem goes away or even alters, ya know? Diagnosing and possibly resetting the TPS, using his 4crawler TPS guide(need to find that again....new computer, no bookmark, lol) will be another move before replacing it. I can return it, anytime, and I got it for 25% off, on the shelf, so I figured, why not have it in case IT IS the problem(I just can't bolt it in).
Well, I am going to head out, once I find his TPS page, recheck with my AFM diagnosis printout and track down the vacuum(forgot to mention that the dealer looked at that, first, and he didn't find anything incorrect.....but as I said, best to check). Then I"ll see where I'm at. I'm just wondering, is there any way to bypass the Modulator, or EGR, or BVSV that would help to diagnose this? Just a lil frustrated, BUT PUSHIN ON! LOL.
06-04-2010, 10:37 AM
#511
Hey Rob, THANKS AGAIN, BROTHER!
I just responded to Roger(4Crawler), and I hope he'll chime in, here, or allow me to share what he thinks/suggests. I really want to help anyone who's having the same problems, but I have to, first, FIGURE THIS OUT! lol.
I gave him a list of things done and not done. I explained how meticulously I marked the vacuum and that the dealer checked and cleared the diagram(maybe they missed something, I'll check). I explained what the Smog Guy told me about the EGR-Modulator, and that I was running a lil rich(not enough to fail, but noticable....bout half way to fail). I explained how I checked the AFM, TPS, IACV but had trouble with the TPS readings.
I'll check what he's said, .......go from there. Not sure about the EGR, Modulator and BVSV check, but I've been reading just now, and I'll do my best.
I just responded to Roger(4Crawler), and I hope he'll chime in, here, or allow me to share what he thinks/suggests. I really want to help anyone who's having the same problems, but I have to, first, FIGURE THIS OUT! lol.
I gave him a list of things done and not done. I explained how meticulously I marked the vacuum and that the dealer checked and cleared the diagram(maybe they missed something, I'll check). I explained what the Smog Guy told me about the EGR-Modulator, and that I was running a lil rich(not enough to fail, but noticable....bout half way to fail). I explained how I checked the AFM, TPS, IACV but had trouble with the TPS readings.
I'll check what he's said, .......go from there. Not sure about the EGR, Modulator and BVSV check, but I've been reading just now, and I'll do my best.
06-04-2010, 02:50 PM
#512
My latest news:
Replaced the Thermo-temp-Time switch on top of the thermostat housing(gift from a dealer parts friend...he had an extra at home)....While I'll have to drive it around and reset the ECU again(already did, but to be sure, ya know?)...it doesn't seem to have solved the problem.
I still have to check the VSV and other Emissions issues that Roger has suggested, but for now, I'll post what I found on the TPS and AFM Test. Well, I'm fairly certain I tested the TPS properly, with as close to MM measurements as possible. Only one combination of two feelers was necessary.....I got VERY close to accurate. The first numbers listed are the initial number the ohm meter displayed, before winding up with the next number/s. Sometimes, I would be removing the prod's and it would jump WAY UP, as removing them.........Test done at 20k setting...
TPS;
0mm: VTA-E2- 2.5 initially > held at .65 at end
.57mm: IDL-E2 - 3.6-3.4-2.4> held .01 at end
.85mm: IDL-E2 - began with 5, held .01 at end
Fully Open: VTA-E2 - Held 4.21 at end
(" ?) : Vcc-E2 - Held 5.68 at end
AFM;
E2-Vs at 75degrees --- 32 to 70 then held at .2
E2-Vc at 75degrees --- 23 to 27 then held at .2 -(when removing the prod's one time, jumped to 180, but never again)
E2-Vb at 75degrees --- 33 to 43 then held at .3
E2-THA at 75 degrees- Held at 2.2
E1-Fc --- It read nothing, meter reading didn't change from display(is that infinity?) I'll read again, must have missed it.
Also important(I THINK, lol) to mention is that the dealer pointed out to me that the adjustment screw on the AFM had been sealed up with Black RTV. The top of this hole is cracked off(size of a large pea piece), but doesn't appear to have any cracks through the meter itself. Also, the screw inside that hole appears to have been adjusted at times. Also what might be important? It runs when that screw is FULLY screwed clockwise(I'm assuming that's shut)
I will go back and find the recommended numbers for these tests, and try to post them here. Sorry bout that, just got ahead of myself.
Replaced the Thermo-temp-Time switch on top of the thermostat housing(gift from a dealer parts friend...he had an extra at home)....While I'll have to drive it around and reset the ECU again(already did, but to be sure, ya know?)...it doesn't seem to have solved the problem.
I still have to check the VSV and other Emissions issues that Roger has suggested, but for now, I'll post what I found on the TPS and AFM Test. Well, I'm fairly certain I tested the TPS properly, with as close to MM measurements as possible. Only one combination of two feelers was necessary.....I got VERY close to accurate. The first numbers listed are the initial number the ohm meter displayed, before winding up with the next number/s. Sometimes, I would be removing the prod's and it would jump WAY UP, as removing them.........Test done at 20k setting...
TPS;
0mm: VTA-E2- 2.5 initially > held at .65 at end
.57mm: IDL-E2 - 3.6-3.4-2.4> held .01 at end
.85mm: IDL-E2 - began with 5, held .01 at end
Fully Open: VTA-E2 - Held 4.21 at end
(" ?) : Vcc-E2 - Held 5.68 at end
AFM;
E2-Vs at 75degrees --- 32 to 70 then held at .2
E2-Vc at 75degrees --- 23 to 27 then held at .2 -(when removing the prod's one time, jumped to 180, but never again)
E2-Vb at 75degrees --- 33 to 43 then held at .3
E2-THA at 75 degrees- Held at 2.2
E1-Fc --- It read nothing, meter reading didn't change from display(is that infinity?) I'll read again, must have missed it.
Also important(I THINK, lol) to mention is that the dealer pointed out to me that the adjustment screw on the AFM had been sealed up with Black RTV. The top of this hole is cracked off(size of a large pea piece), but doesn't appear to have any cracks through the meter itself. Also, the screw inside that hole appears to have been adjusted at times. Also what might be important? It runs when that screw is FULLY screwed clockwise(I'm assuming that's shut)
I will go back and find the recommended numbers for these tests, and try to post them here. Sorry bout that, just got ahead of myself.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-04-2010 at 02:52 PM.
06-04-2010, 07:39 PM
#514
Those links above show the AFM and TPS specs, guys..... I'd paste them here but they're in some kind of excel format, where they don't end up like supposed to. Ok, well, anyone has any thoughts on my results, ......shoot! lol. They don't look right to me, and while I could be doing something wrong, I think that's just being paranoid as a first timer at this.
I guess I"m just gonna have to wait for the AFM now and try it out. I read Rogers instructions for reading at the ECU connectors in case the AFM does nothing, but with some of the readings I got, I'm guessing it's at least a lil screwy, eh?
Thanks for any input in advance. I had to do a party for 30 tonight, alone, so I didn't have any time to get at it, but tomorrow I'll check the vacuum on the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and I think my buddy has a Modulator I can borrow, as well as a newer EGR. Just a matter of when he can get over this way, .....138 Mile trek.
K, well, Night 4 now....i'll check in for any input, before crashing in a few hours.
I guess I"m just gonna have to wait for the AFM now and try it out. I read Rogers instructions for reading at the ECU connectors in case the AFM does nothing, but with some of the readings I got, I'm guessing it's at least a lil screwy, eh?
Thanks for any input in advance. I had to do a party for 30 tonight, alone, so I didn't have any time to get at it, but tomorrow I'll check the vacuum on the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and I think my buddy has a Modulator I can borrow, as well as a newer EGR. Just a matter of when he can get over this way, .....138 Mile trek.
K, well, Night 4 now....i'll check in for any input, before crashing in a few hours.
06-05-2010, 09:43 AM
#516
Thanks, very much, Rob!
Ok, I need to clarify something. I'm new to multi-meters, and I'm trying to brush up on 4Crawlers INCREDIBLY helpful site. However, .......
If I said "it's jumping around"(the ohm readings), that's not exactly what I mean.
When I hook it to a particular pair of terminals, it starts most often at a number, ie '3.5", then drops to whatever number I've posted at "ends and holds at 2.4". It does this VERY quickly, within 2 seconds or so. It's a brand new meter, and I've always checked these items with the ground off the battery(also to avoid pulling a bunch of codes from disconnecting things). Sooooo, when I say 'ends and holds at' whatever number, that's where it stays. It's not 'jumping around'.
I'm heading out there, shortly, to check for vacuum pressure to the fuel pressure regulator. Going to read up as much as possible on that, first, as I'm thinking, "I'd assume the pressure is fine for the first minute or so, while running strong, then drops to low(if that's the problem) when going into open loop". So, I can only assume, until I ask 4Crawler, that I should be testing that particular vacuum once it's having issues(I wouldn't think it would run with the FPReg. disconnected, would it?
I'll bring my laptop out with me, in hopes that someone might chime in with something, even if it's "WAIT, make sure you........", etc., k.w.i.mean?
Thanks, guys, for anyone who might take a look at my TPS and AFM readings, now that I've explained further.
Chef Mark
Ok, I need to clarify something. I'm new to multi-meters, and I'm trying to brush up on 4Crawlers INCREDIBLY helpful site. However, .......
If I said "it's jumping around"(the ohm readings), that's not exactly what I mean.
When I hook it to a particular pair of terminals, it starts most often at a number, ie '3.5", then drops to whatever number I've posted at "ends and holds at 2.4". It does this VERY quickly, within 2 seconds or so. It's a brand new meter, and I've always checked these items with the ground off the battery(also to avoid pulling a bunch of codes from disconnecting things). Sooooo, when I say 'ends and holds at' whatever number, that's where it stays. It's not 'jumping around'.
I'm heading out there, shortly, to check for vacuum pressure to the fuel pressure regulator. Going to read up as much as possible on that, first, as I'm thinking, "I'd assume the pressure is fine for the first minute or so, while running strong, then drops to low(if that's the problem) when going into open loop". So, I can only assume, until I ask 4Crawler, that I should be testing that particular vacuum once it's having issues(I wouldn't think it would run with the FPReg. disconnected, would it?
I'll bring my laptop out with me, in hopes that someone might chime in with something, even if it's "WAIT, make sure you........", etc., k.w.i.mean?
Thanks, guys, for anyone who might take a look at my TPS and AFM readings, now that I've explained further.
Chef Mark
06-05-2010, 11:47 AM
#519
I just came in from doing the vacuum test that 4Crawler suggested. When hooking the vacuum line from the "VSV?" to the Fuel Pressure Regulator, when cold, it read 15" and crawled up to 18" and held, pretty quickly. While doing this, I noticed that when removing the tester, it would idle up slightly, then back down slightly when plugging again.
THEN; I noticed it was going into open loop and dropping in idle, etc.(within 1 min. max, it does this, as it did this time as well), and noticed that the vacuum pressure going to the tester was dropping in tandem with the rough running spasms by the motor, .....from 18" down to 15", then jump back up to 18" when smoother(the motor ). Then, I removed the vacuum line from the tester, leaving it open to suck air, and it would smooth out, idle up and while it was still having a lil hiccup/miss, it was something most people wouldn't worry about too much(pupping in the exhaust, NOT POPPING, JUST PUPPING, LOL....like it does, every few seconds or so, not in any constant repetition----erratic pupping and not constant, ok???// lol)
THEN; I tried one more thing, not sure what it's telling me but whatever, right? I hooked the hose back to the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and it dropped to 500rpm's again, wanting to bog out and seeming like it's missing, etc. When I'd remove it again, it would idle back up to 750-800(sorry, the idle screw is IMPOSSIBLE to get right at the moment...it isn't getting enough air unless I have it out quite a bit, kwi-mean?).
Also, by this time, it had entered that 'OPEN LOOPYPOOPY NIGHTMARE, and had been in it for a while, Yet STILL, when removing the vacuum to the FPRegulator, it seemed to idle back up again. However, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be reading from this, so I'm just guessing, but it seems that something between the VSV(RIGHT????...THE Green sucker on the valve cover with a few lines, including the one to the FPRegulator)...something between that and the FPR or something that is related to reading those three is FUBAR! Could it be that the either the FPR or VSV are not operating properly or that something related to reading them(ie. coolant sensing thing, like the BVSV or something) is FUBAR?
I CAN FEEL THAT I'M CLOSE, GUYS, please point me in the right direction?
Thanks, so much, xxxtreme,
Mark
PS> xxxtreme(Grizzly Adams till Summer, hehehe), .....I have an AFM in the mail, right now, from JBM715(good guy), but WHO KNOWS, EH? So those items you have are from working EFI motor? You switched yours to carbed, no? Sorry if I'm way off, just asking. Thanks again, Mark
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-05-2010 at 12:19 PM.
06-05-2010, 11:56 AM
#520
Registered User
Nope just picked them up from the yard. The truck was a clunkers deal. So I would say it wasn't running when pulled. lol. It happens to be the same one 1995 pickup I pulled the power steering setup from the last time I was up there. This time I also grabbed the locking hubs as well as another set from a 91. I have for sale on here.
I didn't realize you already had one on the way to you.
I didn't realize you already had one on the way to you.
