ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
05-31-2010, 05:21 PM
#462
Right on, Jerry, I hear ya.
I guess it's just a lil frustrating at times, ....."Nothing?", I keep thinking, day after day, hahahahaha. I think at this point, Jerry, I'm stuck! Whatever it is, it's going to take someone with a LOT more experience than me to point me in the right direction, then begin eliminating one thing at a time. I guess I can't do that without another AFM for one(why it's not throwing a code, i have no idea), or TPS("), or Knock sensor("), or IACV(doubt that's it, but DITTO to the previously mentioned items, at this point!
I think when I took it to the dealer and they're basically saying, "Dunno, but I'm leaning toward AFM",......I WAS HOPING FOR SOMETHING MORE! lol. I have another shop I can try and a traveling mechanic that I've just spoken too come over......but unlike the dealer, $$$, just to figure it out. Plus, I would NEVER just take it to 'anyone'...I have to KNOW OR KNOW OF them, and they have to have a trustworthy reputation. And, really, without the 'up the pipe' computer and others, like the Dealership Diagnostic machine.....WTH CAN I EXPECT that I haven't found?
WE WILL FIGURE THIS OUT, CRAWLIN! hahaha
I guess it's just a lil frustrating at times, ....."Nothing?", I keep thinking, day after day, hahahahaha. I think at this point, Jerry, I'm stuck! Whatever it is, it's going to take someone with a LOT more experience than me to point me in the right direction, then begin eliminating one thing at a time. I guess I can't do that without another AFM for one(why it's not throwing a code, i have no idea), or TPS("), or Knock sensor("), or IACV(doubt that's it, but DITTO to the previously mentioned items, at this point!
I think when I took it to the dealer and they're basically saying, "Dunno, but I'm leaning toward AFM",......I WAS HOPING FOR SOMETHING MORE! lol. I have another shop I can try and a traveling mechanic that I've just spoken too come over......but unlike the dealer, $$$, just to figure it out. Plus, I would NEVER just take it to 'anyone'...I have to KNOW OR KNOW OF them, and they have to have a trustworthy reputation. And, really, without the 'up the pipe' computer and others, like the Dealership Diagnostic machine.....WTH CAN I EXPECT that I haven't found?
WE WILL FIGURE THIS OUT, CRAWLIN! hahaha
05-31-2010, 05:24 PM
#463
Another question.....I can't find a test for the Knock sensor.....can I remove the connector to test it? ....or will it screw something up? (See? That's a question I HAVE NFC when it pertains to 'do this or that, then you can check that off'), hahaha
05-31-2010, 09:37 PM
#464
Ok, well, I found a used/low miles AFM, with guarantee(Warranty) for 75, shipping included. I'm going to try the locals tomorrow, but if it's still as it's been for the last week...........I'm ordering it tomorrow. Then...................i wait, lol.
Once I'm in possession of that and can test it, I'll go from there,......and I'll be on the lookout for a TPS as well! Muahahahaha. lol
Hope you all had a fantastic Holiday, ...and Bless our Troops!....Especially the fallen, OOH RAH!
Once I'm in possession of that and can test it, I'll go from there,......and I'll be on the lookout for a TPS as well! Muahahahaha. lol
Hope you all had a fantastic Holiday, ...and Bless our Troops!....Especially the fallen, OOH RAH!
06-01-2010, 07:06 AM
#465
Registered User
dang Chef, sorry to hear all of these problems. Took me a bit of reading to get caught back up, but I'm with you know, just wish I had some advise for you. Most of the electronics stuff is over my head. Just here for moral support I guess.
06-01-2010, 08:59 AM
#466
Thanks alot, Rob! I'LL TAKE IT! lol......
Ok, guys, here's what I've read, googled and located as of last night;
Not TOO far from here, about 40 Miles, I found a yard with 4 AFM'S! He also says that he has an equal # of Throttle Bodies..........WITH ALL SENSORS ATTACHED, including IACV and TPS...(he said, "NEVER remove those if you're a yard, ...they're set specifically and calibrated for that motor, ..."), and that he sells that whole throttle body assembly and AFM for 100$ Each!
Only problem is that I don't really feel comfortable taking my 4runner there, ...you know, just to try out the parts. He said it would be no problem to return, or just try out in the lot....DANG, I just don't trust the truck, at this point, to that level. What if it's the fuel pump? DON'T WANT TO BE STRANDED ON THE 91FRWY IN FONTANA, YA KNOW? lol..... Just would be a lot easier, with gas costing what it does, .....but anyway,..........
I'VE FOUND THE PARTS(that I'm not even sure i need, hahaha), and I"M OFF TO GET THEM! Hell, at least it's a lead, and for 200$ for BOTH?(new throttle body-w/IACV and TPS and AFM)???
BBL8r, T8rs!
Ok, guys, here's what I've read, googled and located as of last night;
Not TOO far from here, about 40 Miles, I found a yard with 4 AFM'S! He also says that he has an equal # of Throttle Bodies..........WITH ALL SENSORS ATTACHED, including IACV and TPS...(he said, "NEVER remove those if you're a yard, ...they're set specifically and calibrated for that motor, ..."), and that he sells that whole throttle body assembly and AFM for 100$ Each!
Only problem is that I don't really feel comfortable taking my 4runner there, ...you know, just to try out the parts. He said it would be no problem to return, or just try out in the lot....DANG, I just don't trust the truck, at this point, to that level. What if it's the fuel pump? DON'T WANT TO BE STRANDED ON THE 91FRWY IN FONTANA, YA KNOW? lol..... Just would be a lot easier, with gas costing what it does, .....but anyway,..........
I'VE FOUND THE PARTS(that I'm not even sure i need, hahaha), and I"M OFF TO GET THEM! Hell, at least it's a lead, and for 200$ for BOTH?(new throttle body-w/IACV and TPS and AFM)???
BBL8r, T8rs!
06-01-2010, 09:34 AM
#467
One thing that is really bothering me, guys.....
Wouldn't the AFM throw a code? Wouldn't the knock sensor, TPS, etc., throw a code as well? It's an hour and 20 min. drive with no traffic.....and in Los Angeles, that's UNHEARD OF, lol. Just throwing it out there, ....I'm on hold waiting for the Toyoto Dealer Mech. to ask him just that. .....and he said, "NOPE, I've had to replace quite a few that weren't throwing codes....They start to read Air Temperature improperly and will send too much or not enough air, causing some STRANGE problems that are really hard to diagnose."....but other than that, he seemed to think that, if I can return things, as I find they don't fix the problem, then why not?....Especially if I'm not throwing a code.
?????????????? ANY THOUGHTS ???????????????
Wouldn't the AFM throw a code? Wouldn't the knock sensor, TPS, etc., throw a code as well? It's an hour and 20 min. drive with no traffic.....and in Los Angeles, that's UNHEARD OF, lol. Just throwing it out there, ....I'm on hold waiting for the Toyoto Dealer Mech. to ask him just that. .....and he said, "NOPE, I've had to replace quite a few that weren't throwing codes....They start to read Air Temperature improperly and will send too much or not enough air, causing some STRANGE problems that are really hard to diagnose."....but other than that, he seemed to think that, if I can return things, as I find they don't fix the problem, then why not?....Especially if I'm not throwing a code.
?????????????? ANY THOUGHTS ???????????????
06-01-2010, 10:15 AM
#468
Just to re-check list;
*&*...Just to check if I'm eliminating the EGR from the P.O.E. properly.... When doing this, I disconnected the EGR hose on top and plugged it, ...I have no change. Is that how you check it? Second, the smog guy told me that the EGR seemed 'ok', but that the Modulator, more often, will go out and cause the motor to trip out. He also said it was running a lil rich, ......couldn't inadequate AIR FLOW cause that?
My o2 is from the dealership, and it never had to deal with any Seafoam or anything other than the new header pipes burning off stuff(besides, the truck was doing this before the header, etc.).
1. I've got a new Dealer Denso 02(Changed problem from running crappy cold to this)
2. New Coolant Temp Switch(Didn't help much at all)
3. It runs decent, cold, then turns to crap initially entering open loop and warming up
4. When driving it in this condition, it eventually(in a block or so) seems to smooth out(but idling for a minute or 2, or sitting at a light for said time, it will idle down to 500rpm. If I kill the motor, then restart it, it idles back up for a few seconds, then down again after about 10 seconds).
5. New Motor, Timed to 5* BTDC, don't believe I have any intake leaks
6. Intakes and throttle Body, including adjusting screw hole, are VERY clean
7. Not throwing ANY CODES, at all
I know people get a lot of crap for replacing parts, when they can't figure out the problem....but NOW I KNOW how they feel. I've tried most everything I can, save hooking it up to a 'up the pipe' and 'on the computer-same time as pipe' machine....and CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT!
*&*...Just to check if I'm eliminating the EGR from the P.O.E. properly.... When doing this, I disconnected the EGR hose on top and plugged it, ...I have no change. Is that how you check it? Second, the smog guy told me that the EGR seemed 'ok', but that the Modulator, more often, will go out and cause the motor to trip out. He also said it was running a lil rich, ......couldn't inadequate AIR FLOW cause that?
My o2 is from the dealership, and it never had to deal with any Seafoam or anything other than the new header pipes burning off stuff(besides, the truck was doing this before the header, etc.).
1. I've got a new Dealer Denso 02(Changed problem from running crappy cold to this)
2. New Coolant Temp Switch(Didn't help much at all)
3. It runs decent, cold, then turns to crap initially entering open loop and warming up
4. When driving it in this condition, it eventually(in a block or so) seems to smooth out(but idling for a minute or 2, or sitting at a light for said time, it will idle down to 500rpm. If I kill the motor, then restart it, it idles back up for a few seconds, then down again after about 10 seconds).
5. New Motor, Timed to 5* BTDC, don't believe I have any intake leaks
6. Intakes and throttle Body, including adjusting screw hole, are VERY clean
7. Not throwing ANY CODES, at all
I know people get a lot of crap for replacing parts, when they can't figure out the problem....but NOW I KNOW how they feel. I've tried most everything I can, save hooking it up to a 'up the pipe' and 'on the computer-same time as pipe' machine....and CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT!
06-01-2010, 01:32 PM
#469
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to eliminate the egr, where it bolts to the intake on the back, 2 bolts. loosen those, slide a piece of soda can aluminun in there to block the hole and retighten to hold it in place. basically making a gasket to block any exsaust gases from getting in the intake. Mine went bad, too much carbon build up and it acted like it was running out of gas, but was fine when rpms were up.
06-01-2010, 05:39 PM
#471
to eliminate the egr, where it bolts to the intake on the back, 2 bolts. loosen those, slide a piece of soda can aluminun in there to block the hole and retighten to hold it in place. basically making a gasket to block any exsaust gases from getting in the intake. Mine went bad, too much carbon build up and it acted like it was running out of gas, but was fine when rpms were up.
Around 9am I left for Fontana, CA, from Coastline Palos Verdes....(anyone who knows L.A. KNOWS WHAT A PITA-HOT AS HECK drive that is!) Before I left, I called the Yard, in Fontana, and asked them to double check for me, 1. The numbers, 35020 ending, and that the flaps were easily pivoting, etc. NO RUST, etc.).
3 HOURS LATER, I arrived, just after noon! I then waited almost 50 MINUTES for his guy to bring the first one up. On the plastic cover, the number 75080(or something like that) was there, but on the body itself, was an engraving, "22250-35020".......Engraving Looked factory, but MINE HAS NO engraving, so suspicious. Not to mention, the door would BARELY open and shut. The guy says, "Put some WD40 in there, and it's off a low miles blah blah blah"....WD40???? I ASKED HIM? YOU CAN NEVER put that in there, dude!....By the way, it REEKED of WD40 or some similar lubricant. I told him NO WAY I'm going to drive back 2.5-3 hours and 'try it out', only to have to bring it back. I reminded him, "you told me you had 4, at least, can I see all the others?" Then, the throttle body came up, WRONGGGGGGG, COMPLETELY WRONG! Must have been off a 88 or V6, ...I've seen it in the diagrams. Wrong TPS, wrong position of the TPS, wrong number, and it had MORE VACUUM LINES THAN MINE! He says, "No way, man, ...it's off an 87, he just tore it off one." 87 Camry, maybe, ...NOT 4RUNNER, no way, guys, I'm telling you. ..............SO ANYWAYYYYYYYY, then the next 2 AFM's come up there, ........BOTH the right number, and BOTH JUNK, door frozen shut, cone SLATHERED in WD40 or something, REEKED of it!
I told him, before leaving, EMPTY HANDED, ...."Sir, you've effectively SCREWED MY WHOLE DAY, ....and I'm sorry, but you have NO CLUE how to handle these parts. I'm a NEWBIE and I know more than whomever is taking them off back there. You can NOT put lubricant on there, EVER, and you cannot even put TB cleaner....they make a cleaner, it's called AFM CLEANER.....Second, I could have had a working one from a friend at Yotatech GET IT IN THE MAIL, TODAY, ....instead, now, I'll be YET ANOTHER day behind and, to be honest, you've been VERY unprofessional. I TOLD You, before I left from 99 MILES AWAY, ...."PLEASE, tell me the parts are off working motors, that the numbers correspond and that THE DOORS at least open for air flow...ALL 4 WERE CRAP, including one that wasn't even the right one! 2 THUMBS DOWN, SIR! I WILL be spreading the word on this place, and urging people from good distance to avoid making the trip. On top of it all, you're speaking to me--- after I've memorized these numbers and the quality things should be, to the point of CITING IT ALL IN MY SLEEP---like I'M A KNOB, ....and as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Sorry, sir, ....you're wrong, that's all I can say."
Needless to say, guys, while I don't want to seem like a whiner, ......I'M PISSED! ........but oh well, right? lolol!!! Better to laugh and move on, eh?
Soooooooo, a mechanic I trust told me today, "YOU PUT A NAPA COOLANT TEMP SENSOR IN THERE???......MARK, MARK, MARKKKKKK, ....start there, and GET OEM! Then, try that first, and eliminate it from the checklist. I've had 3 Beck Arnley's, a good brand, NOT WORK, and 3 Bosch O2's, amongst other things, NOT WORK, properly." So, that's next, I guess. .....I just doubt it's going to be that easy, but what can it hurt, eh? I went by the dealer on the way out there, told them, "Your site says 70$, and you're telling me 112$????" ....."70$ it is, Mark, ...no problem", he answered, ....Fhewwwwwwww, at least something went my way today, eh? hahaha.
06-02-2010, 04:25 AM
#472
Registered User
Man, the guys at most of my local salvage yards are the same way, mishandle sensitive parts & try to pass them off as gold. Really sucks that you wasted your day. Did yoy install the new temp sensor? Maybe it will help. Best of luck.
06-02-2010, 05:41 AM
#474
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disconnecting the vacumm does keep the egr from working but if its stuck open at all its still going to be getting some exhaust gases flowing thru, so to really check and eliminate the egr i would block it off. I have mine blocked because its not sealing all the way and makes it idle crappy. but i will get a new one before next smog. sounds like you had a bad day. good luck.
06-02-2010, 09:26 AM
#475
YA THINK? lol.....Just ridiculous, ya know?
disconnecting the vacumm does keep the egr from working but if its stuck open at all its still going to be getting some exhaust gases flowing thru, so to really check and eliminate the egr i would block it off. I have mine blocked because its not sealing all the way and makes it idle crappy. but i will get a new one before next smog. sounds like you had a bad day. good luck.
UPDATE: No, it's not a 'solved' type update.....trust me, I WISH IT WAS! hahaha. However, I found an AFM from JBM715, good guy, and he's shipping it off, today. So, we'll see, eh? He said the flap is working fine and if I have any problems, he'll take it back. Free shipping, too, ...so I just hope to have it by Saturday, ....but trust me, at this point?...Not counting dem chickens! hahaha.
06-02-2010, 09:32 AM
#477
YA THINK? lol.....Just ridiculous, ya know?
disconnecting the vacumm does keep the egr from working but if its stuck open at all its still going to be getting some exhaust gases flowing thru, so to really check and eliminate the egr i would block it off. I have mine blocked because its not sealing all the way and makes it idle crappy. but i will get a new one before next smog. sounds like you had a bad day. good luck.
UPDATE: No, it's not a 'solved' type update.....trust me, I WISH IT WAS! hahaha. However, I found an AFM from JBM715, good guy, and he's shipping it off, today. So, we'll see, eh? He said the flap is working fine and if I have any problems, he'll take it back. Free shipping, too, ...so I just hope to have it by Saturday, ....but trust me, at this point?...Not counting dem chickens! hahaha.
06-02-2010, 09:44 AM
#478
'J', " so besides the problem at hand....how's it running? no leaks, right? it all holding together , right?"
How's it going with you, Sir? ....Yeah, it's running strong, and other than the BVSV, ..NO LEAKS! Not a one! That, my friend, really is good news.....Trust me, I'm not taking for granted the good things. I guess if this was a new problem, it wouldn't tick me off so much, lol. But, after putting so much into this thing, .....I guess I was hoping I would not have to proverbially fish and fish and fish so much in order to find out where the proverbial fish are hiding, ya know what I mean? hahaa.
Oh well, ....it is what it is. At least I KNOW it's not the Motor, internally or otherwise, regarding hardware. IT'S GOT to be a sensor or emissions related mechanism, ya knowwwwwwww? I really have started to wonder about the TPS and even the EGR & Modulator, now, but YOU KNOW WHAT?.....That, my friend, IS GUESSING! hahaha. But, at this point, having no codes, ....having the dealer scratching it's head, .....having NO clear answer as to what it is,....I guess I have no other option but to begin to 'swap', ya know?
How's it going with you, Sir? ....Yeah, it's running strong, and other than the BVSV, ..NO LEAKS! Not a one! That, my friend, really is good news.....Trust me, I'm not taking for granted the good things. I guess if this was a new problem, it wouldn't tick me off so much, lol. But, after putting so much into this thing, .....I guess I was hoping I would not have to proverbially fish and fish and fish so much in order to find out where the proverbial fish are hiding, ya know what I mean? hahaa.
Oh well, ....it is what it is. At least I KNOW it's not the Motor, internally or otherwise, regarding hardware. IT'S GOT to be a sensor or emissions related mechanism, ya knowwwwwwww? I really have started to wonder about the TPS and even the EGR & Modulator, now, but YOU KNOW WHAT?.....That, my friend, IS GUESSING! hahaha. But, at this point, having no codes, ....having the dealer scratching it's head, .....having NO clear answer as to what it is,....I guess I have no other option but to begin to 'swap', ya know?
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-02-2010 at 09:46 AM.
06-02-2010, 01:34 PM
#479
Registered User
Chef, the reason I asked if the intake kit was new is because I learned along time ago to do one thing at a time. Since we have nothing to lose.....Take it off & put your stock air box, AFM & intake tube back on & see how it runs. It should only take a few minutes to do so do it just to humor me. Don't know if it will help or not, but it is just one more variable that could be throwing things off.
06-02-2010, 03:30 PM
#480
Hey Rob,
I hear ya, but the thing is.......it's doing EXACTLY the same thing as before the build, and the AFM and wiring are exactly the same, including the sensor inside, which is the only thing that screws with the Air/Fuel mixture(only thing pertaining to the AFM/TPS-&-TB relationship)....as far as I know.
I might try that, but it's EXACTLY the same problem as before the build or changing anything, including header or o2 location or Cold Air Kit.....EXACTLY, hahaha. But no, seriously....did i say, 'EXACTLYYYYYYYY' the same? lol.
I popped in the new Coolant Temp Sensor(Denso, 79$ total, normally 112$), from the NAPA(35$...GRRRRRRRRRR, why don't these aftermarket things work as well? WHY, I ASK YOU!?!?!?!?!, HAAHAHA). However, I can't test it yet. Why you ask? ...lol. Well, because I also did the Teflon liquid Thread sealer on the BVSV, then topped that off, around the base, with some Toyota Dealership RTV(STUFF IS GNARLY, lol). So, I have to wait till the RTV and Thread sealer dry on the BVSV before I can start it up. I will probably wait till tomorrow, as when I REDID the intake, pipes, etc, and waited 24hours?...NO LEAKS, not a friggen one....EXCEPT, of course, on the BVSV, which had NO THREAD SEAL ON IT! Highly recommend EVERYONE use this stuff or teflon tape or Toyota RTV on the threads for the BVSV. Not sure, but I've heard from more than one mechanic that THEY LEAK, often, after removing them to beadblast the intake, then replacing them.
I hear ya, but the thing is.......it's doing EXACTLY the same thing as before the build, and the AFM and wiring are exactly the same, including the sensor inside, which is the only thing that screws with the Air/Fuel mixture(only thing pertaining to the AFM/TPS-&-TB relationship)....as far as I know.
I might try that, but it's EXACTLY the same problem as before the build or changing anything, including header or o2 location or Cold Air Kit.....EXACTLY, hahaha. But no, seriously....did i say, 'EXACTLYYYYYYYY' the same? lol.
I popped in the new Coolant Temp Sensor(Denso, 79$ total, normally 112$), from the NAPA(35$...GRRRRRRRRRR, why don't these aftermarket things work as well? WHY, I ASK YOU!?!?!?!?!, HAAHAHA). However, I can't test it yet. Why you ask? ...lol. Well, because I also did the Teflon liquid Thread sealer on the BVSV, then topped that off, around the base, with some Toyota Dealership RTV(STUFF IS GNARLY, lol). So, I have to wait till the RTV and Thread sealer dry on the BVSV before I can start it up. I will probably wait till tomorrow, as when I REDID the intake, pipes, etc, and waited 24hours?...NO LEAKS, not a friggen one....EXCEPT, of course, on the BVSV, which had NO THREAD SEAL ON IT! Highly recommend EVERYONE use this stuff or teflon tape or Toyota RTV on the threads for the BVSV. Not sure, but I've heard from more than one mechanic that THEY LEAK, often, after removing them to beadblast the intake, then replacing them.
