ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

It's about a year old/4K miles? Had the entire exhaust done when I put the first motor in.

rworegon

Not likely CAT, O2 sensor looks new too. Hmmmm...... EGR (of which I know nothing about) seems to be high on the hit parade for high NOx....

At least there are threads on here with the same problem and potential remedies. Frustrating for sure.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, RW! I appreciate ANY input, no matter how small. Means a lot to me that people even chime in... Or even still come around after my thread has come off the rails so badly, hahahaha. Anyway........ I have the videos uploaded... Gonna post em now.....

Just to be clear... No matter what I say on the videos... it doesn't mean that I KNOW what I'm finding is conclusive, etc... Just what I've been told/read/found in the instructions on the Mighty-VAC instructions/what I've learned over time...





I also tested the EGR for the ability to hold vacuum while not running.... It held 5" Vacuum without losing a drop, even after 5 minutes. Anyone who's fresh on this stuff, please remind me if I'm testing this properly? lol.

ToyoTech559

nox is controlled by the EGR. i would say something in this system has failed
cat doesnt control nox so its not your cat. even if you have no cat. nox wouldnt be higher

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Your test looks like everything is working right. But like you said with the TPS,02 sensor,EGR are all talking to the computer and one is off. This could be a tough find. On the good side of this is you have mentioned your bad gas mileage so something good should come from this.

As far as the hissing you have mentioned before. I have never heard mine hiss. I can say witht the gas tank expereinces I have had and just recently, I have found the lines from the engine bay to the tank and the fuel pump holder it self has alway had clogged or slow flowing lines. Especially the "J".

Try taking an air hose and blowing thru the lines on the vent and return lines. You will hear it bubble in the tank. Cant see your hissing being part of your smog fail, but who knows. Your exhaust and 02 sensor and everything looks new so I have no idea where else to start.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Hello Mark.. I am actually lookig for things on youtube and did find tis thread. If I find something else that I think could be useful, I will just go back and edit this post.

Link... https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...h-test-243990/

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, Terry! I've been on there and posted... also... I'm copy and pasting the posts from my "CA smog fail" thread to here... Plus some points I want to note......"........

************************************************** *****************
From "CA SMOG FAIL" thread;


Wow, THANKS, GUYS! I found another thread regarding CA smog fail, lol... It's very confusing, for me anyhow, considering I'm not really apt in this part of chemistry.... But I'm trying.

So, It seems the Modulator(EGR Solenoid) is a COMMON culprit for 'WHY HIGH NOX?' ....

I cleaned the Modulator filter pack thing last year(3Kmiles ago or so)... But didn't see anything but that packing foam looking disc in there... Sounds like you're saying there's 2 pieces in there? Again, I STILL can't see how that thing works other than giving the emissions system the ability to pull/push air from 3 different ports on itself... But apparently a couple people have swapped them out and passed.

Lemme share what I'm dealing with here, in total... that might help bring "smogtech" and a couple other guys like that on board... Plus with what you've all posted, I guess I've got some fishing to do in the FSM. (PS> I'm guessing that just because I get the EGR to trip a stall while applying vacuum, that doesn't mean that the modulator is doing it's job, right? lol).......

* Fully Rebuilt 22RE with New Pistons and Rings, Fresh Bore and Hone to 20over, 10-10 Crank Grind(Hot tanked and air reamed all ports/passages as well as possible, including the EGR-HEAD exit)

* All new Manganese Bronze Guides, Valves, Eski Springs, Viton Seals, Head fully freshened up and New HG set to 64#

... New 02(Denso, 5K miles old?),
... New CAT(5K ago) done by reputable exhaust shop,
... New TPS(5K ago- and to the best of my ability, done to specs around 3 times to 4crawler instructions)
... Newer CTS( Napa; seems to read within specs/6K miles old)
... All Injectors serviced by RC(including CSI, 5K miles ago)"Excellent" rating
... Newer 02 Sensor(Denso, 6K miles on it?)
... New Thermostatic Time Temp Sending unit(OEM; The one behind/on the Stat Housing)
... New High End Radiator/Water pump/Alternator/Steering Pump/Steering Box/Plug Wires(6K Miles/Magnecore 8.5MM from LCE)/All new Vacuum and Water Hoses(Besides the heater core hoses and Booster hose)
... New Fuel Pump
... New LCE headers
... Always keep fresh OEM Air Filters in there
... Change Oil Religiously and use OEM Filters

What's not new;

... EGR and Modulator
... Few other things like booster/cruise control module and actuator/Fuel Pressure Regulator/Fuel Damper/Trans



I'm going to further check into the EGR/Modulator testing per FSM and then double check all the routing of the vacuum while at it...(after 200 times, I think I have it right, but I CAN'T SAY I KNOW..... ya know? lol. Never know, might have crossed something 'last time')....

I don't have that high tech calculator thingymadoer to check further into 02 and C02 so I will try to work with what I have and report back what I find.... Some repairs can be put off a while.. This one is REALLY frustrating cuz it's a bit more complicated than most stuff I can just 'test, verify/rule out', ya know?

************************************************** *****************
Another post, I basically just answered everyone as best as I could... But long and short, the only things to add is this;

1. He did check the timing, it was at 7*BTDC... I usually keep it there cuz it 'FEELS' right with the CAM(261)... But I could retard it if it would help.

2. I only noticed one foam thing, IIRC, when I cleaned out the Modulator insert.... Is there more than one in there?

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I must of missed your post on that thread. I was actually googling it and it led me to that thead. I did try findig somethings on Youtube but they were for every other car but Toyota and they kept mentioning EGR.

Chance of it being cold tomorrow so I might get some more computer time and see what I can find on the net. I feel your frustratons.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Oh, no, Terry.... I hadn't posted on it until you threw me the link... Again, 'THANKS!' lol.... You didn't miss anything, you're good to go! lol.

ToyoTech559

from my experience, i have see a few EGR Modulator replaced. its been a while since i done any testing of any EGR systems so i cant help much. dont retard your timing any more than 3 degrees. i have heard retarding it can help reduce nox.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Just updating my build thread with what's going on in the 'CA SMOG FAIL' thread, lol.......

* Emissions Vacuum Routing checks out as directed by FSM and Hood Sticker

* Ran a couple tests with Vacuum Gauge >>>>>>>




In EC-13, #1, the Modulator appears to be clean still. I will blow it out with air, regardless.

In EC-13, #2 and #3,.... I verified it started.

In EC-13, #4, .... I think in moving out to the driveway I got it above 86*F (However, it was under 2" vacuum at 3500RPM, much lower than it was in step #5, warmed up)

In EC-13, #5, Steps A and B.... I warmed it up for several minutes and tested as instructed; It showed under 3" Vacuum(Maybe 2.5"?)

In EC-13, #5, Steps C and D.... Hooked up as instructed and found 15-18" Vacuum as I hit 3000RPM(give or take).......So, from there, it starts telling me to 'INSPECT EACH ITEM INDIVIDUALLY'..... Ahhhhhhh hahaha.

In EC-14, #6, .... "Using a vacuum pump, pump on the EGR while running, fully warm... the motor should try to stall"...... I had done a video of this... I applied direct vacuum to the top of the EGR... The motor DID, in fact, want to die, quickly.

PS> Registration fees aren't due til May 18th... So I have a lil more time than I'd thought. Gives me almost a month, pretty cool, right? hehehe.

************************************************** *********************

Just to summarize;

1. I've verified all Vacuum routing for my 87 22RE 4Runner
2. I've ran Several of the first few tests in the FSM(Section EC-13 and EC-14, through Step #6).... So far, each 'initial' test is passing.
3. One left in those first couple pages to check(which I KNOW I've done before)... "Check BVSV while Motor is Cold/Under 86*F... So that's next


NEXT:

1. Check Each Component, more in-depth, individually;

.....A. BVSV
.....B. Modulator
.....C. EGR
.....D. Possibly Run the Basic Tests for the 02 Sensor

Anything you Smog Pro's can think of that I should add to the things I'm finding in the FSM? (I.e. ; Should I just take this in to a Smog-MECHANIC with a scope, etc., and let him get to the bottom of it ASAP? ..... And no, I'm not in a raging hurry... But within reason, ya know?)

Thanks, guys....

Mark

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

PS> Just for reference for anyone this might help.... Did a lil video of the proper routing of Vacuum for the EGR... Need to do another with REALLY good lighting.. But it should help someone maybe..

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thought I'd throw this in there as well, just for some levity.....

Logan, Lumpy.... the PEACOCKS ARE CALLING YOUUUU!>>> lol.... >>>

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

OK guys, ...... more testing;

I will retard the timing and most likely replace the Modulator... I think for 265K miles.... it's done it's job well and worthy of replacing for 60$.


I finished the tests(for the most part) on the EGR system, and just now finished testing the BVSV, Cold and Hot.... It passed both tests.... "Blow air into the J while under 86*F(I did it when cold) and be sure that Air passes through the J(lower) port and out the Top(basket/filter).... Then, warm up above 111*F and you should be able to blow air into J and have it come out K port(Upper on the BVSV)".... As I said, passed both tests with flying colors, no resistance, etc. The ONLY thing I haven't done which I haven't seen mentioned, is "Blow air through the vacuum rails one at a time to be sure they will pass air without restriction"... Yes, that's my own quotes of my thoughts, lol. I would think they're working as the rig passed all the other tests... But I can't be sure until I rule it out, ya know?

Here is the testing I just did........



Thanks, guys, I'll keep ya filled in and PLEASE, if you think of anything else.... lemme know(Ie; Fuel system, 02, CTS, 02 too far back on the pipe from the manifold, etc.)... Again, thanks!

Mark

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Next testing will be the modulator(EC-14/ last 2 illustrations above). Not sure it'll do anything but pass, as everything else has thus far... meh, lol. Don't get me wrong... that's good, I know..But it's just frustrating to see that most everything is working and knowing that "almost always, high NOX is EGR related"... ya know?

STILL HUNTING! lol.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I posted this on your thread but it didnt make it for some reason. I did find a thread and dont remember where. But like everything else has been covered, but the high NOX is from too hot of a combustion chamber and purpose of EGR is to cool it. That is already covered as I understand this thread and that link.

But that link/webpage,It said that another thing that can cause failing smog is if your cooling system isnt operating properly (thermostat,radiator,...) that will raise the combustion chamber heat and causing same as a fualty EGR.

I know you are great on your maintenace and wouldnt suspect your cooling system but I havent seen it mentioned on here, but it did make sense to me. I have seen some really dirty radiators that a store bought flush kit wont get clean. Have your radiator power flushed if you are on your orginal radiator. Seems like I recall you may have replaed your radiator, but that could be someone elses thread I am confusing you with.

Another tip and I dont think it would hurt anything as it is basically the same as Heet ( water remover) is to use 90% Isopro alcohol (if I spelled it right.) when going to the testing station. Might want to look into it further, but said that would lower your numbers, I dont know as I havent had to mess with smog.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Also I know you went thru your motor fairly recently, but I am sure you are probably running with your EGR hooked up before the smog test any ways. Did find a little more info on high NOX.

One was to try a lower octane gas. I think 87 is the lowest you can go. The other it said carbon can build up and hold the heat in. It was suggested to "decarbonize the motor" . I would think the Seafoam should do that.

Those EGRs make a mess, one reason I am Anti-EGR..lol, I just block mine off. It looks like it is on there but my motors are alot cleaner. Dont know how long it can take to build up carbon, but I had some bad ones. Try seeing what your Plenum looks like and maybe it will give you an idea what is on the piston and valves.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey, Terry.... Try my Smog Thread, here;

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...l#post51906286

That's a permalink to get you passed a lot of 'fishing', so to speak. (Might be worth reading anyhow, but just to save you some time, lol).

Radiator/Water Pump/Hot Tanked Block and Head(3-4 times each along with compressed air flush and some reaming, including of crank oiling journals).... NEVER comes close to overheating, but runs a bit over a 3rd on the temp gauge(My gauge is a replacement I swapped into my cluster to keep the same mileage... but it's a lil sticky as well. However, I think once it's up to temp and I rap on the plastic/glass... it is an accurate reading of the temp. Plus, it NEVER bubbles over in the overflow, etc.). I've also done LOTS of burping, etc. I think it's covered(cooling system)... but I would NEVER say it's 'SURELY PERFECT', lol. Quality Radiator that's a unique 'tow package' version which has the lower hose line in the radiator 4-6" toward the middle from the corner.

Not sure on the HEET.... Getting mixed input on that. Smog Techs and Roger seem to tell me, "Can't hurt to run 91 Octane, but don't look to that to be the solution to 'PASS'... Rather, FIX what's wrong within the EGR system and be done with it", lol... Sounds 'simplistic', but they're right, I need to stay FOCUSED on one thing at a time, ya know?

I can't delete the EGR here in CA... their testing would IMMEDIATELY find it(they do extensive EVAP testing, etc.). Also, it seems to me that deleting it would literally increase the NOX, as the stuff that's trying to get fed back through the plenum can't make it, thus, it heads right out the CAT and produces "HIGHER NOX", possibly HC and O2, CO and O2 as well???? I wouldn't know. My number seemed ok, otherwise, other than the HC Portion at 15MPH... That was closer than I'd like.

I will just post a 'catch up' post here, from the "CA Smog Failure" Thread.... But if anyone is interested, the thread link is above. If you're just checking in, I'd read that whole thread, not only from the permalink I've posted. It's pretty decent for the 'newb-to-smog' person, like myself.

Thanks, Terry ... KEEP BRINGIN IT! Lol.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

(I answered Roger and Scope and more on the "CA Smog Test Failure" Thread I posted the link of above.... So there's likely more info there... But decided to summarize to maybe help people get to TOTALITY of most of what's been asked, plus "then some", lol).....

Copy and pasting this from another smog thread/lots of this one and my build, etc.....
************************************************** **********>>>

* Emissions Vacuum Routing checks out as directed by FSM and Hood Sticker



* Ran a couple tests with Vacuum Gauge + More >>>>>>>



In EC-13, #1, the Modulator appears to be clean still. I will blow it out with air, regardless.

In EC-13, #2 and #3,.... I verified it started.

In EC-13, #4, .... I think in moving out to the driveway I got it above 86*F (However, it was under 2" vacuum at 3500RPM, much lower than it was in step #5, warmed up)

In EC-13, #5, Steps A and B .... I warmed it up for several minutes and tested as instructed; It showed under 3" Vacuum(Maybe 2.5"?)

In EC-13, #5, Steps C, D ...Hooked up as instructed and found 15-18" Vacuum as I hit 3000RPM(give or take)

In EC-14, #6, .... I had done a video of this... I applied direct vacuum to the top of the EGR... The motor DID, in fact, want to die, quickly.(Whether at idle or 3000RPM)

in EC-14, regarding the "BVSV" portion.... Cold and Hot.... It passed both tests.... "Blow air into the J while under 86*F(I did it when cold) and be sure that Air passes through the J(lower) port and out the Top(basket/filter).... Then, warm up above 111*F and you should be able to blow air into J and have it come out K port(Upper on the BVSV)".... As I said, passed both tests with flying colors, no resistance, etc.

In EC-14, Modulator Portion.... I'm NOT SURE! I tested by blowing air while not running, through "Q", while plugging up "R" and "P"..... Seemed air flowed out the top/filter ok. In the second part of testing, "Run at 3500RPM and repeat the previous test... Resistance should be dramatically increased"(shouldn't be able to blow air through it really well while plugging R and P and blowing into Q). I also noticed that the Filter in the Original is MUCH dirtier than I thought I'd left it. I can see a TWO black dots on the Bottom-most filter, which confirms that I've been in there and blew air through it, even moved it clockwise 20-degrees or so... But when I opened the "DONOR" I got from a low miles 2WD at Pick-Your-Part... it was MUCH easier to see light through it and was CLEARLY, visibly much whiter and cleaner! I THEN switched the Filters and finally did the "Modulator Testing" mentioned above... And got the results I mentioned("Didn't seem to be MUCH MORE resistant at 3500RPM than while 'engine off'.")

Some things I haven't done which I haven't seen mentioned, is "Blow air through the vacuum rails one at a time to be sure they will pass air without restriction"... Yes, that's my own quotes of my thoughts, lol. I would think they're working as the rig passed all the other tests... But I can't be sure until I rule it out, ya know?

I did a LAMBDA of the 25MPH Portion of the Test(The Portion I failed);

http://www.smogsite.com/calculators.html

MY RESULT; LAMBDA=1.011 ...... Fuel/Air Ratio=14.87

The Quote under where mine fell on the 'sliding scale' .....

= 1.0 perfect for emission and CAT operation (1.005 to 0.995 good for CAT operation)


************************************************** *********************

I've not really done any 02 Testing, but as I believe I've posted already...

NEW/er(within 5K);

*Denso 02
*Denso CTS
*OEM TPS
*Radiator
*Water pump
*Oil Pump
*Fuel Pump
*C.O.R.(Circuit Open Relay)
*OEM Thermostatic Temp Time Switch(behind Stat)
*RC Serviced Injectors(including CSI)
*Fuel Filter
*Air intake Elbow and In-tact Pipe
*OEM Air Filter
*8.5MM Magnecore LCE Wire Kit
*OEM Cap and Rotor
*All new Vacuum Lines(including Larger OEM IACV lines)
*OEM IACV
*Flushed Heater Core(Heater and AC Work well)
*All new OEM Denso AC Seals throughout/OEM Drier and Charged
*Fully Rebuilt motor(hot tanked/air flushed and reamed 3+ times, both head and block)
*3-way CAT(magnaflow I believe, from a reputable shop)
*LCE Header(C.A.R.B. Stamped) and All new Pipe to CAT to Borla to 2.50" Tapered Tip
*Aisin HD Clutch Kit/Slave and Master as well
*New Rotors and Drums/also cylinders and Calipers
*Resurfaced Flywheel
*Belts/H20 Hoses
*Starter
*Steering Pump(& 66K Mile Gear Box from 2wd)
*IFS Restoration(95%)
*Fully Cleaned Throttle Body/Plenum/Intake
*CAM/Springs/Valves/Adjusters-& lapped rockers/Guides/Seals/HG
*Rings/Pistons/Crank-10-10/Bearings
*Doesn't Leak a DROP, front to back


What's NOT new;

*EGR / Modulator / BVSV
*CSI-Time Switch
*Distributor
*Coil and Ignitor
*Injector Resistor
*FPR(Fuel Pressure Regulator)
*Fuel Pressure Damper(Front of Rail)
*Heater Core
*AFM(Purchased an unmolested one from JBM715 on here as mine had been 'tampered with', lol)
*ECU
*Neither VSV's, FPR or AC, are new
*The driver, OBVIOUSLY, hahaha.

************************************************** **********************

I'm ONLY posting this in order to help someone in the future... In my own Smog thread, there's much more info and input from Smog Pros like "SCOPE" and "4Crawler". Hopefully, as I stated, it will help someone like me in the future who is really in a spot in life in many ways and NEEDS A BREAK! lol.

I have one question I would LOVE answered without having to purchase to Modulator just to find out.....

*** WHEN I PULL VACUUM ON THE BOTTOM OF THE MODULATOR, SHOULD IT, LIKE THE EGR, HOLD VACUUM AT 5" FOR A DECENT AMOUNT OF TIME? ........(Mine does not, and I don't see that as a test in the FSM, whatsoever. And if it's NOT supposed to "Hold Vacuum", ...well, that would answer me as to why it's not in the FSM, lol)

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey guys;

OK, .... is anyone else having issues with Photobucket? Or Adobe Flash Player for that matter? Doesn't seem like any other site is saying "You need the latest version" but PBucket... So I'm probably ASSUMING it's only PBucket... But OMGOSHHHHHHHHH, ... Lemme tellya , be careful when clicking on that 'download' in Photobucket for Adobe... It made everything I tried to do therein adobe 'incapable' due to 'already running'(in other words)... I ended up having to restore my Computer to the 21st in order to, what I THOUGHT was, get out of 'that mode'.... Well, it didn't work........ PBucket is STILL asking for that download to be done, will not let me copy any IMG's, etc. And, when I restored, the first or second thing that came up was, "Update for Adobe Flash Player Available" came up. WTH? LOL.

I guess I'll save it for another thread. Sorry guys... I'm just REALLY overwhelmed and this is not helping, lol. I just wanted to share some pics to show that I'm still at it, but also maybe share this as a warning? Not sure it'll help, but I hope so, cuz it's TOTALLY frustrating(at least to me) when ANYTHING in a computer goes 'wonky' and wastes my precious time! lol.

Next post will be an update....... about MY TRUCK. LOL. I've kinda kept everything regarding the 'smog failure' over on that thread, just to avoid losing even more subscribers, hahahaha. lol. I'll just update here when I find out if I pass next time or not.. Then an update that's a quick consolidation of everything I've found/learned/ruled out, etc.