ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
07-11-2011, 07:55 PM
#2801
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PS> Someone told me that, regardless of getting 12.35 Volt readings from the lighter plug hole, they DO NOT put out 12V actually, .... Toyota Lighter plugs put out 11.5V or something like that? The guy was an electrician, and he showed me how it worked that way ONLY when I plug something in that draws power. Back then, in 87, I don't think Inverters were on the list of Toyota's "things to enable", ...so they were worried about something else, or the lighter was only set to pull 12V ???
07-11-2011, 08:40 PM
#2802
^^ x2...
usually, the voltage is higher than 12v, and even higher with the engine running. i know it's not supposed to change, but it does due to wires, fuses, heat, connections, and load. what you need to be concerned about is amperage of the load.
usually, the voltage is higher than 12v, and even higher with the engine running. i know it's not supposed to change, but it does due to wires, fuses, heat, connections, and load. what you need to be concerned about is amperage of the load.
07-12-2011, 05:28 AM
#2804
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Hey chef just a thought on the a/c Try adjusting the idle up higher than the 750 with a/c on. when mine was idleing too low the a/c kept kicking on and off alot. but with a higher idle it runs better. this may be why yours runs longer till the engine is warmed up where it idles slower. also the lighter is gona give you whatever voltage you measure or your battery will maintain. once you put a load it may make the battery drop in voltage depending on the load and the condition of the battery. the stock lighter socket may be only on when ignition is on. the reason that the higher wattage inverters dont have the lighter socket is because they pull to many amps for the socket wire. that wire is pretty small.
07-12-2011, 09:01 AM
#2805
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Mark - I can shed a little bit of light on the inverter/voltage questions.
- The battery is nominally a 12V battery, but since it's composed of several cells and each cell may vary slightly because of age/wear/temperature, the battery voltage you measure at the terminals may be higher or lower.
- When the truck is running, the alternator has to charge the battery, so it has to put out more than 12V to create the gradient and push electrons the other way into the battery.
- All of the wiring, from your batt cables, to the fuse panel and snaking all out into your different systems is adding resistance between the battery and the device. Specifically, the wires going to your cig lighter are pretty small, but with no current being drawn through the wire, if I stick my voltmeter in the cig lighter hole and measure, I'll pretty much read the same as reading directly on the battery terminals. (Again, assuming no current draw).
- If you were to plug a load into your cig lighter while still measuring the voltage right there, you will see a voltage drop that is proportional to the current being drawn by that load. The resistance of wire is specified as Ohms per foot, so if the wire is 15ft long, and say it has .01 Ohms per foot of loss, then the total resistance is .15 Ohms, not much. The voltage drop is current times resistance, so to draw 10Amps, you'll lose 1.5 Volts just in the wire. I made this example up, I don't know what gauge wire goes to the cig lighter so I don't know the ohms per foot.
- Now, one more thing on the inverter you mentioned. You said it was 750W. So if you plan to use all 750 of those watts then you'll be drawing 750/12 = 62.5 Amps. So whatever wire you run to the back of the truck, make it beefy.
On newer cars you'll notice the accessory power plugs say 120W on them. I think because they fuse them for 10Amps, so 12V * 10A = 120W.
I don't know if I cleared anything up or confused the issues
- The battery is nominally a 12V battery, but since it's composed of several cells and each cell may vary slightly because of age/wear/temperature, the battery voltage you measure at the terminals may be higher or lower.
- When the truck is running, the alternator has to charge the battery, so it has to put out more than 12V to create the gradient and push electrons the other way into the battery.
- All of the wiring, from your batt cables, to the fuse panel and snaking all out into your different systems is adding resistance between the battery and the device. Specifically, the wires going to your cig lighter are pretty small, but with no current being drawn through the wire, if I stick my voltmeter in the cig lighter hole and measure, I'll pretty much read the same as reading directly on the battery terminals. (Again, assuming no current draw).
- If you were to plug a load into your cig lighter while still measuring the voltage right there, you will see a voltage drop that is proportional to the current being drawn by that load. The resistance of wire is specified as Ohms per foot, so if the wire is 15ft long, and say it has .01 Ohms per foot of loss, then the total resistance is .15 Ohms, not much. The voltage drop is current times resistance, so to draw 10Amps, you'll lose 1.5 Volts just in the wire. I made this example up, I don't know what gauge wire goes to the cig lighter so I don't know the ohms per foot.
- Now, one more thing on the inverter you mentioned. You said it was 750W. So if you plan to use all 750 of those watts then you'll be drawing 750/12 = 62.5 Amps. So whatever wire you run to the back of the truck, make it beefy.
On newer cars you'll notice the accessory power plugs say 120W on them. I think because they fuse them for 10Amps, so 12V * 10A = 120W.
I don't know if I cleared anything up or confused the issues
07-12-2011, 09:26 AM
#2806
Thanks a LOT, guys! Yeah, had me confused as well! lol.
Since that camping trip where I met that guy, I have installed a new battery and many new main wires, secondary wires, etc. .... OH< and a new alternator, lol.
Far as you confusing me, Corys, .... no worries, that really did help remind me of Electronics 101 in HSkrewel! lol I'm serious.... the wiring thing, specifically.
OK< so the inverter is 750W Continuous and 1500W whatever, lol. Don't have it in front of me, forgive, FORGIVE! lol.
Thinking about it, I guess I could just leave the inverter without a male 12V hook up, maybe just removing the Alligator clips and run some 10G wire from the Power Source to the Center somewhere, like RBX did(just not permanently mounted). I have 20FT. of heat shrink that I can pull a section of when it's time to hook the thing up to the wiring each time, via removing the alligator clips, as said, and replacing them with male connectors that I'd have encapsulated so they wont arc and run them into the Power source wires with FEMALE connectors on them(so they can chill somewhere in the panel or something without arching when not in use....... And with all that said, it's starting to REALLY look like a GREAT idea to install it the way RBX DID! lol. Maybe I could do what RBX did, but make it more removeable?
Since that camping trip where I met that guy, I have installed a new battery and many new main wires, secondary wires, etc. .... OH< and a new alternator, lol.
Far as you confusing me, Corys, .... no worries, that really did help remind me of Electronics 101 in HSkrewel! lol I'm serious.... the wiring thing, specifically.
OK< so the inverter is 750W Continuous and 1500W whatever, lol. Don't have it in front of me, forgive, FORGIVE! lol.
Thinking about it, I guess I could just leave the inverter without a male 12V hook up, maybe just removing the Alligator clips and run some 10G wire from the Power Source to the Center somewhere, like RBX did(just not permanently mounted). I have 20FT. of heat shrink that I can pull a section of when it's time to hook the thing up to the wiring each time, via removing the alligator clips, as said, and replacing them with male connectors that I'd have encapsulated so they wont arc and run them into the Power source wires with FEMALE connectors on them(so they can chill somewhere in the panel or something without arching when not in use....... And with all that said, it's starting to REALLY look like a GREAT idea to install it the way RBX DID! lol. Maybe I could do what RBX did, but make it more removeable?
07-12-2011, 09:55 AM
#2808
- All of the wiring, from your batt cables, to the fuse panel and snaking all out into your different systems is adding resistance between the battery and the device. Specifically, the wires going to your cig lighter are pretty small, but with no current being drawn through the wire, if I stick my voltmeter in the cig lighter hole and measure, I'll pretty much read the same as reading directly on the battery terminals. (Again, assuming no current draw).
- If you were to plug a load into your cig lighter while still measuring the voltage right there, you will see a voltage drop that is proportional to the current being drawn by that load. The resistance of wire is specified as Ohms per foot, so if the wire is 15ft long, and say it has .01 Ohms per foot of loss, then the total resistance is .15 Ohms, not much. The voltage drop is current times resistance, so to draw 10Amps, you'll lose 1.5 Volts just in the wire. I made this example up, I don't know what gauge wire goes to the cig lighter so I don't know the ohms per foot.
- If you were to plug a load into your cig lighter while still measuring the voltage right there, you will see a voltage drop that is proportional to the current being drawn by that load. The resistance of wire is specified as Ohms per foot, so if the wire is 15ft long, and say it has .01 Ohms per foot of loss, then the total resistance is .15 Ohms, not much. The voltage drop is current times resistance, so to draw 10Amps, you'll lose 1.5 Volts just in the wire. I made this example up, I don't know what gauge wire goes to the cig lighter so I don't know the ohms per foot.
>whew<
07-13-2011, 01:47 PM
#2812
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AC?? whats that, I will be glad to find out someday, so will be looking at your thread when I get to do mine. It sounds like it is working right, when that compressor kicks in, it puts a hevy load on the motor.
Coryc85 was right..I had electrical training 20 years ago and alot of that sounded familiar. A good example of wiring issues is if you ever put a air compressor on around 100 feet of extention cord, all of the electric gets used up by the time it get to the compressor. Make sure you have heavy wire and probably will want to upgrade your alternator.
I finaly got out of the Electrical Problems Club, hoping the same for you
Coryc85 was right..I had electrical training 20 years ago and alot of that sounded familiar. A good example of wiring issues is if you ever put a air compressor on around 100 feet of extention cord, all of the electric gets used up by the time it get to the compressor. Make sure you have heavy wire and probably will want to upgrade your alternator.
I finaly got out of the Electrical Problems Club, hoping the same for you
07-13-2011, 01:56 PM
#2813
THANKS, TERRY! lol.... I hear ya... I can promise one thing, ...when I do this, it will not be with electrical tape and twisting, ...not even connectors when possible.... it will be soldered with an easy out hook up. Alternator? HMMMM, yeah, been wanting to do that for a while, but can't afford it for now. Trans first! lol.
07-15-2011, 03:51 AM
#2816
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07-15-2011, 03:59 AM
#2817
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Ha, well i guess we could keep the thread alive by chatting about how we disappear from time to time, sometimes you just got too. Of course this is only so Chef's thread doesn't fall out of the top 10 busiest threads. Me, I'm going for the tumble weed thread, with cricket sounds.
Usually when i disappear i am working on the truck, reason why i don't take many pics, and don't even check email. This is usually the weekend. And i take the most pics and respond when i am on vacation...go figure.
I am really trying to create a diatribe here but i am running out of coffee/steam.
Usually when i disappear i am working on the truck, reason why i don't take many pics, and don't even check email. This is usually the weekend. And i take the most pics and respond when i am on vacation...go figure.
I am really trying to create a diatribe here but i am running out of coffee/steam.
07-15-2011, 04:34 PM
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He's not gone. His truck works, it's about time he friggin enjoyed it. The fact that this thread slowed down means he's finally reaping the benefits of his work. That and he doesn't realise the rest of you see this thread as a chat room. Mowaha ha ha ha
Edit: I think I kinda came across as an ass there, I was really just making a joke, hope I didn't offend.
Edit: I think I kinda came across as an ass there, I was really just making a joke, hope I didn't offend.
Last edited by Dutchbelly; 07-15-2011 at 04:44 PM.
