ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
06-10-2011, 12:00 PM
#2542
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06-10-2011, 12:07 PM
#2544
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I can see it now, chef boils his t-stats, removes the t-stat leaves the pot and his other half sees a pot of water on the stove when it comes time to make dinner. lol.
06-10-2011, 01:31 PM
#2548
Ok, I tested the one I have that's newer with my older one. The newer one didn't seem to open til 195 or so, and when I pushed down on it, initially, when removing it, ....it really popped like it was stuck, but the one at Toyota that I was gonna buy did the same thing.
Again, .... after sitting ALL NIGHT, cold as ice, ....cold day to boot, ... why would there be so much pressure released when I cracked the thermostat HOUSING off the stat and intake????
Again, .... after sitting ALL NIGHT, cold as ice, ....cold day to boot, ... why would there be so much pressure released when I cracked the thermostat HOUSING off the stat and intake????
06-10-2011, 02:00 PM
#2549
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Hey Mark, what stuck me as odd is the excess pressure you are feeling on the upper radiator hose, it has me wondering it there is excessive pressure in the whole system which is causing perfectly well sealed up gaskets blow out and start leaking. I just can't think of a single good reason for there to be so much much pressure other than the theromostat or water not circulating at all and thermal expansion taking place. Have you tried running it without the Radiator cap?
06-10-2011, 02:19 PM
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Just brainstorming here. I am not a mechanic/diagnostician, but if it's not pressure throughout the system like Yotarob is asking you to look into, it sounds like there has to be a blockage somewhere in the system. If you can isolate the source of your leak, Odds are the blockage is past that leak. If you have lines that are getting really hard, odds are the blockage is past those lines, as well. I would probably rule out the thermostat only if the leak is past the thermostat, which means pressure is building up past it, not at it. This doesn't mean you shouldn't replace the stat, though, I've read a few articles on how stats can go when changes occur in the coolant system ie. new water pumps etc. A completely rebuilt engine would definitely be a change in the system. Until you find out exactly where it's leaking from, it's going to be very difficult to diagnose. I'd blow off the engine with air till it's clean again, see if you can find the source of the leak, take a few pics and then post them so the hive mind of yotatech can really get to work on this. Wishing you all the best Chef, as you can see from the posts-you've got all our support.
Last edited by Dutchbelly; 06-10-2011 at 02:23 PM.
06-10-2011, 02:29 PM
#2551
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Hey Mark, what stuck me as odd is the excess pressure you are feeling on the upper radiator hose, it has me wondering it there is excessive pressure in the whole system which is causing perfectly well sealed up gaskets blow out and start leaking. I just can't think of a single good reason for there to be so much much pressure other than the theromostat or water not circulating at all and thermal expansion taking place. Have you tried running it without the Radiator cap?
Cheer up chef, at least ya don't have to deal with this: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post51736258
06-10-2011, 05:05 PM
#2552
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Chef..sorry to hear about your troubles. I agree there is a blockage some where as others have mentioned. One thing I ran into in the past was head gasket was blocking a water jacket. The hole just didnt get punched out.
To save pulling the head, maybe you can pull hoses one at a time and see if water is flowing. Might suggest hooking a Preston flush kit and using fresh water with the motor off and see what you can find and then maybe the motor running. Not sure if the motor running would gain you anything as the T-stat might not open.
It could possibly point you into which direction the plug is at. Other then that you have me stumped. I know you pay attention to how things go together. My experience was on a 351 Cleveland, but could see a similiar situation with what you are experencing.
To save pulling the head, maybe you can pull hoses one at a time and see if water is flowing. Might suggest hooking a Preston flush kit and using fresh water with the motor off and see what you can find and then maybe the motor running. Not sure if the motor running would gain you anything as the T-stat might not open.
It could possibly point you into which direction the plug is at. Other then that you have me stumped. I know you pay attention to how things go together. My experience was on a 351 Cleveland, but could see a similiar situation with what you are experencing.
06-10-2011, 05:26 PM
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If it's a blockage, I'm liking what terry is suggesting. Would be good to know where the fluid is flowing, and where it's not. Also more brainstorming: would an airlock create these symptoms? I'm thinking probably not because I doubt it would create the pressure necessary for what's happening for you but I found this thread while throwing your symptoms into the search engine:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...ubbles-212980/
Is there any chance you were overzealous with sealant, which might have oozed into the coolant channels and caused a blockage? I'm still just brainstorming here while you work on more info for us.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...ubbles-212980/
Is there any chance you were overzealous with sealant, which might have oozed into the coolant channels and caused a blockage? I'm still just brainstorming here while you work on more info for us.
06-10-2011, 07:00 PM
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Chef.. I was thinking some more. What about running with out the Thermostat, just to see what changes. Not saying for the long term, just testing. Might give more clues where to look.
On the Preston kit, Im not sure of all of the flows of water direction, but I would say water should come out of every hose/ pipe connection.
Its a little late now, but as I was mentioning earlier. On all 22res I always clean the old head gasket with brake cleaner or carb cleaner and if it got warped when taking it off the motor as it sometimes half will stick to head and half to block, I put it under a brick or piece of plywood.
I can look for the problem area and when I stick the new gasket on. I alway put the old one on top of the new one and check all of the oil, water, and bolt holes. You want the old one facing you. Chances are it worked before and it will help to make sure the new one is all good. I clean the old one just to keep from contaminating the new one.
On Toyotas I do the same for the exhaust gasket and on domestic models, when possible I try to do the same for intake and water pump gaskets also.
With the water hose attached, you might even have to see if your metal pipes have water flowing and maybe even pull the water pump. Start with the easy parts to remove that involve water flow and keep stripping it down to the more harder parts to remove.
Not everyone may agree with me on this, but one reason I always start with just water and dont add antifreeze is because I can usually count on leaks. I fix all of my leaks and let it get up to operating temp. Water wont let it get so hot that it will damage the motor. After everything is fine, then I drain the water and put in the proper amount of antifreeze. Just helps cut down on cost.
I will try to think of more possibilities.
On the Preston kit, Im not sure of all of the flows of water direction, but I would say water should come out of every hose/ pipe connection.
Its a little late now, but as I was mentioning earlier. On all 22res I always clean the old head gasket with brake cleaner or carb cleaner and if it got warped when taking it off the motor as it sometimes half will stick to head and half to block, I put it under a brick or piece of plywood.
I can look for the problem area and when I stick the new gasket on. I alway put the old one on top of the new one and check all of the oil, water, and bolt holes. You want the old one facing you. Chances are it worked before and it will help to make sure the new one is all good. I clean the old one just to keep from contaminating the new one.
On Toyotas I do the same for the exhaust gasket and on domestic models, when possible I try to do the same for intake and water pump gaskets also.
With the water hose attached, you might even have to see if your metal pipes have water flowing and maybe even pull the water pump. Start with the easy parts to remove that involve water flow and keep stripping it down to the more harder parts to remove.
Not everyone may agree with me on this, but one reason I always start with just water and dont add antifreeze is because I can usually count on leaks. I fix all of my leaks and let it get up to operating temp. Water wont let it get so hot that it will damage the motor. After everything is fine, then I drain the water and put in the proper amount of antifreeze. Just helps cut down on cost.
I will try to think of more possibilities.
Last edited by Terrys87; 06-10-2011 at 07:02 PM.
06-10-2011, 07:00 PM
#2555
Hey guys, I'M SO GRATEFUL for all the input, 20Cents worth of 2cents's by now, at least!!!
Well, my buddy came by, .... He's a seriously gifted mechanic with these.... We ran it for the heck of it, just to verify something that he was thinking, ...and it just confirmed what he suspected... HEAD GASKET! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUgly ducklings! LOL.
First off, ....I WAS LIVID, I have to say, ...and I'm still a bit upset....but my buddy, not just being a patronizing/pacifying optimist, said, "Mark, just remember, ...this is actually good, in a sense!" To which, of course, I responded, ...."you on crack man?" lol... To which he continued, .."NO, really, .... this could have happened around 2 hours into your trip into Arizona, where it's over 100*F right now, already... and the damage would have been, ....well, aside from having to get it towed back, etc., ..... it would have been 'DONE', the motor I mean." ............. And I can't argue with him on that, really.
The steam, likely, is water leaking into the cylinder/s from the Water jackets over, ...and it IS slightly mixing with the oil already.(In the cap, I have the JUSTTTTTTTTT beginnings of 'sludge' starting up; Vaporized water/oil combo usually shows up there, first, ...highest point of the motor, eh?)
The water I saw leaking from what seemed to be out from the 'OUTSIDE' of the HG, dripping down the block, ....that's also just another sign that, for some reason(I'll expound in a minute), water is probably leaking from the top side of the HG/closer to head/ outward, because due to compression, etc., and water getting pressed into places it's not supposed to be, ..it's going to find the path of least resistance.... OUTWARD-1/4".... AANDDD, water is getting into the oil, most likely through the cylinders(considering it was high in vapor, fairly quickly,....a vapor, obviously caused by water heading out the exhaust).
The reason? NOT QUITE sure, just yet... but I have a feeling, it's something to do with the dowel pin that he put in the back, which was not the original one(YES, if that's the case, ...I'm VERY upset.... but again, what good will that do, right?... Bottom line, ....IIIIIII have to pull the farg'n thing, or at LEAST the head). The dowel in the rear, which I KNOW was not the right one.... it was squared off on it's edges(not literally, but it was NOT tapered, as the toyota ones ARE)..... I should have tested the depth of the dowel slot in the head in comparison to the height of the dowel before I even INSTALLED IT!
My other major problem? The oil pan drain plug is stripped. YEP, you heard me! LOL. Unless i can repair that in the truck, .... I see no option but to yoink the whole thing again(When I pulled the plug, it was like a spring of metal came out....didn't look like a shaving, ...was around 5 windings around.....like a spring. Only can guess it was a repair sleeve..... and yes, I'M POSITIVE it's stripped... I can't even get it to 10# torque).
My guess is that; When I install the head on the block and gasket.... it APPEARS to be plum.... But, when I torque it down, ...I can go to 90#, and it wouldn't matter, if that dowel pin that is squared off is bottoming out in the tapered dowel hole of the head....... it will NEVER seat! Which actually makes some sense, ....seeing as it didn't seem to be leaking toward the front 1/3rd of the HG.... it was more so from a 1/3rd back from the front, back toward around hole number 3.
I can't KNOW, for certain, that something isn't blocked off in there....But the water flow through the stat housing of the intake side, flushing water, flowed through effortlessly in both directions.
Either way, ....block in the H20 passages somewhere or not..... I HAVE NO CHOICE but to pull the head, ya know? I can't see ANY other way that water would be consistently getting into the holes and coming out the tail pipe.
The good news? IT PURRRRRRRRRRRRS! Even with a HG leak...HOLY CRAP, you can barely hear it run, not a single tick, hiccup, miss, kerplunk, 'holy crapoli that's nasty', ....just a MAJOR SET BACK, that's all! LOL
Thanks again, guys, ....and I hope it goes without saying,....I wasn't being ignorant of trying to fill everyone in.... Up to the point I got it completely assembled, I was NON STOP on it, work, and the 'life', ....and then, when I found steam, water leaking down the block from only what could be the head? HOLY CRAPORAMA!!.... Needless to say, I needed to step away from the Truck, the computer and BREATH FRESH AIR OUTSIDE,....BEFORE I HURT SOMETHING/SOMEONE! lol.
Well, my buddy came by, .... He's a seriously gifted mechanic with these.... We ran it for the heck of it, just to verify something that he was thinking, ...and it just confirmed what he suspected... HEAD GASKET! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUgly ducklings! LOL.
First off, ....I WAS LIVID, I have to say, ...and I'm still a bit upset....but my buddy, not just being a patronizing/pacifying optimist, said, "Mark, just remember, ...this is actually good, in a sense!" To which, of course, I responded, ...."you on crack man?" lol... To which he continued, .."NO, really, .... this could have happened around 2 hours into your trip into Arizona, where it's over 100*F right now, already... and the damage would have been, ....well, aside from having to get it towed back, etc., ..... it would have been 'DONE', the motor I mean." ............. And I can't argue with him on that, really.
The steam, likely, is water leaking into the cylinder/s from the Water jackets over, ...and it IS slightly mixing with the oil already.(In the cap, I have the JUSTTTTTTTTT beginnings of 'sludge' starting up; Vaporized water/oil combo usually shows up there, first, ...highest point of the motor, eh?)
The water I saw leaking from what seemed to be out from the 'OUTSIDE' of the HG, dripping down the block, ....that's also just another sign that, for some reason(I'll expound in a minute), water is probably leaking from the top side of the HG/closer to head/ outward, because due to compression, etc., and water getting pressed into places it's not supposed to be, ..it's going to find the path of least resistance.... OUTWARD-1/4".... AANDDD, water is getting into the oil, most likely through the cylinders(considering it was high in vapor, fairly quickly,....a vapor, obviously caused by water heading out the exhaust).
The reason? NOT QUITE sure, just yet... but I have a feeling, it's something to do with the dowel pin that he put in the back, which was not the original one(YES, if that's the case, ...I'm VERY upset.... but again, what good will that do, right?... Bottom line, ....IIIIIII have to pull the farg'n thing, or at LEAST the head). The dowel in the rear, which I KNOW was not the right one.... it was squared off on it's edges(not literally, but it was NOT tapered, as the toyota ones ARE)..... I should have tested the depth of the dowel slot in the head in comparison to the height of the dowel before I even INSTALLED IT!
My other major problem? The oil pan drain plug is stripped. YEP, you heard me! LOL. Unless i can repair that in the truck, .... I see no option but to yoink the whole thing again(When I pulled the plug, it was like a spring of metal came out....didn't look like a shaving, ...was around 5 windings around.....like a spring. Only can guess it was a repair sleeve..... and yes, I'M POSITIVE it's stripped... I can't even get it to 10# torque).
My guess is that; When I install the head on the block and gasket.... it APPEARS to be plum.... But, when I torque it down, ...I can go to 90#, and it wouldn't matter, if that dowel pin that is squared off is bottoming out in the tapered dowel hole of the head....... it will NEVER seat! Which actually makes some sense, ....seeing as it didn't seem to be leaking toward the front 1/3rd of the HG.... it was more so from a 1/3rd back from the front, back toward around hole number 3.
I can't KNOW, for certain, that something isn't blocked off in there....But the water flow through the stat housing of the intake side, flushing water, flowed through effortlessly in both directions.
Either way, ....block in the H20 passages somewhere or not..... I HAVE NO CHOICE but to pull the head, ya know? I can't see ANY other way that water would be consistently getting into the holes and coming out the tail pipe.
The good news? IT PURRRRRRRRRRRRS! Even with a HG leak...HOLY CRAP, you can barely hear it run, not a single tick, hiccup, miss, kerplunk, 'holy crapoli that's nasty', ....just a MAJOR SET BACK, that's all! LOL
Thanks again, guys, ....and I hope it goes without saying,....I wasn't being ignorant of trying to fill everyone in.... Up to the point I got it completely assembled, I was NON STOP on it, work, and the 'life', ....and then, when I found steam, water leaking down the block from only what could be the head? HOLY CRAPORAMA!!.... Needless to say, I needed to step away from the Truck, the computer and BREATH FRESH AIR OUTSIDE,....BEFORE I HURT SOMETHING/SOMEONE! lol.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-10-2011 at 07:05 PM.
06-10-2011, 07:09 PM
#2556
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We posted the same time. Having to pull it again is a downer. At least you know the problem. I tried to leave a couple of tips for you and others that I wouldnt have thought of until you mentioned your problem. Hope it might help some.
Glad to hear it purrs even with your issues.
Glad to hear it purrs even with your issues.
06-10-2011, 07:13 PM
#2557
PS> From what I've been told, many times,...."Remember, when you have a HG leaking into or away from the cylinders, ...you're GOING to have 'erratic overheating', 'plumes of steam from the tailpipe' and 'a seeming lack of power', ...which is due to INABILITY TO CREATE THE PROPER COMPRESSION/COMBUSTION."
I mean, ....even if I had an obvious issue with the Intake(crack, etc.).... i can see that creating steam....but water to leak right out from the HG? I guess I'll find out if I find water in the intake ports.
I mean, ....even if I had an obvious issue with the Intake(crack, etc.).... i can see that creating steam....but water to leak right out from the HG? I guess I'll find out if I find water in the intake ports.
06-10-2011, 07:16 PM
#2558
Thanks, Terry! 
.... I appreciated all your effort to help me solve it. I would have been here corresponding back and forth,...but my buddy was willing to come by, ...and that's not as often as I'd like, lol... so I HAD to just stay with him out there and get his opinion(didn't just have to, he's a GREAT friend to me! lol... you know what I meant, lol.) And I just mean, ....I would have been, but I just sat back down at the puter a few minutes ago.
Thanks again, man,....GREAT advice... and why not test all that while it's apart, right? NO reason I can't, .....in fact, MUCH of that testing will be easier. I started to think that the intake or Throttle body even was plugged up somewhere, not allowing it to 'complete the water cycle'...but just kept coming back to, ..."that doesn't explain the water in the exhaust", .... ya know? lol.
.... I appreciated all your effort to help me solve it. I would have been here corresponding back and forth,...but my buddy was willing to come by, ...and that's not as often as I'd like, lol... so I HAD to just stay with him out there and get his opinion(didn't just have to, he's a GREAT friend to me! lol... you know what I meant, lol.) And I just mean, ....I would have been, but I just sat back down at the puter a few minutes ago. Thanks again, man,....GREAT advice... and why not test all that while it's apart, right? NO reason I can't, .....in fact, MUCH of that testing will be easier. I started to think that the intake or Throttle body even was plugged up somewhere, not allowing it to 'complete the water cycle'...but just kept coming back to, ..."that doesn't explain the water in the exhaust", .... ya know? lol.
06-10-2011, 07:31 PM
#2559
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Your welcome. I dont blame you, when you got a set of eyes right there and experienced help. Take it.lol
The dowel pin probably would of gotten by me. Just would thought the machine shop knew what they were doing and would not considered it. That would of been a tough one.
I was leaning to the head gasket, just trying to find the easier fixes first. The dowel pin would of just ruined another good gasket. That could of been a nightmare to figure out.
On the oil pan, could you just retap with a larger bolt? The correct way wold be to just replace the pan. It wouldnt be much longer though to just pull the motor. All of the bolts will come out easy. I would say you will have some fresh experience. You could probably do it blindfolded.
The dowel pin probably would of gotten by me. Just would thought the machine shop knew what they were doing and would not considered it. That would of been a tough one.
I was leaning to the head gasket, just trying to find the easier fixes first. The dowel pin would of just ruined another good gasket. That could of been a nightmare to figure out.
On the oil pan, could you just retap with a larger bolt? The correct way wold be to just replace the pan. It wouldnt be much longer though to just pull the motor. All of the bolts will come out easy. I would say you will have some fresh experience. You could probably do it blindfolded.
06-10-2011, 08:25 PM
#2560
Yeah, ......unfortunately, it's the 'TIME SUCCUBUS' nature of it all that's causing me to ruin plans, etc., ..... such as; My daughter was going to head with me to visit my pops, .... but her car is under the knife right now(meaning, we could have taken hers, even with mine being fuggled), and she starts school next week, ...so not only can she not go, I will also be missing my nephews Black Belt Ceremony tomorrow(I'm, I guess you could say, his inspiration to take Martial Arts in the first place...he's seen me compete quite a bit, etc.... So that's extra disappointing, ....not like they can hold the ceremony off for a week just for me! lol)
Yeah, far as the guy missing/fudging that one...I'm not happy, but I'm done speculating, complaining, etc., any longer.... I'm WAY too tired of screwing with the same truck over the same issues to concentrate on anything but GETTING IT RIGHT, from here on out, ya know? lol. It might NOT be the dowel pin causing an issue, anyhow.... but I WILL be measuring once I get the head off(measure the height of the pin UP TO the point of where the bevel begins in the head..along with measuring OD of the inside of the hole in the head and the dowel itself, at all points, etc..... I mean, what's the point of taking it apart if it's not to figure out what happened, right? lol)
All in all...... I guess it could be worse, right? Meh, lol.
Yeah, far as the guy missing/fudging that one...I'm not happy, but I'm done speculating, complaining, etc., any longer.... I'm WAY too tired of screwing with the same truck over the same issues to concentrate on anything but GETTING IT RIGHT, from here on out, ya know? lol. It might NOT be the dowel pin causing an issue, anyhow.... but I WILL be measuring once I get the head off(measure the height of the pin UP TO the point of where the bevel begins in the head..along with measuring OD of the inside of the hole in the head and the dowel itself, at all points, etc..... I mean, what's the point of taking it apart if it's not to figure out what happened, right? lol)
All in all...... I guess it could be worse, right? Meh, lol.
