truckman1966

NAPA makes a front crank repair kit which has a new seal, o ring for oil pump, speedy sleeve for your harmonic balancer, and install tool for the speedy sleeve. they're only like $10 more and well worth it. the speedy sleeve is maybe .010" thick and is just that. a polished sleeve that you locktite and drive on very carefully to repair the seal surface on things like harmonic balancers, rear main seal surfaces, cam seals, and all kinds of other applications. they make them in almost every size you could ever need. and it's an accepted repair. NAPA in bham here stocks 2 sets for 22R's. the standard seal kit and the one with the repair kit. (ive used them both)

Timing Cover Set w/o sleeve - TCS45685

Timing Cover Set w/ sleeve - TCS45934

PismoJoe

Good catch mike, I didn't even look that close! You should be able to see the seal retainer.

I knew they didn't use silicon on those, and if they do on transmissions its actually red FIPG.

Yeah someone messed up

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Wow, right on guys, THANKS!

You know, ...I was reading on a Subaru WRX club forum and the guy was pointing out "mark everything and take pics, and be sure you put the seal in right, ..it actually goes in backwards compared to all the other seals, main, etc."..... And I will research carefully on the installation of everything on the trans end, t'cover end, etc.

Truckman....it's 4500 miles on this Harmonic, ..I bought it from Topline or something when I got the motor(he charged me for it, and it was in the box, new, new splash shield in it, etc. I had to take my old crank pulley assembly apart and install it. I'm not sure why it wore a groove in this seal, ...maybe because I didn't lube it properly, etc.....could very well be.

Would I still use a sleeve on a almost new Harmonic balancer?

I'll be near Napa tomorrow while I take a break from a party I'm doing at the Luxe Hotel in Bel Air, ....I'll definitely stop by there and hopefully I can remember to take my seal and oil pump with me to see where it's going to ride. If it rides in different grooves than this last one, I should be ok, no?

Thanks,

Mark

PS> Joe, I'm not sure what you mean, to be honest, regarding the sealing up of that housing. Are you saying to just lay a thin bead around the outside of all those grooves, clean out the grooves really well, etc.? I'm guessing they don't make a gasket, eh? lol. I think what you've also said, Mike, Joe, is that the seal itself .... you should see the hollow part of it in that pic, not the outer portion with the numbers printed on it, etc., right?

PismoJoe

Yup, on the flat part of the flange put a thin layer of FIPG in the center, and go around the bolt holes as well. The bolts should also be touched with FIPG and torqued to 19ft/lbs. They do make a gasket, but I would just use the Toyota Black FIPG.

For the seal, you should be able to see the hollow part where the spring is

jason in tn

Never know what I'm gonna learn on this thread, I glad you know how to ask the right questions mark.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

SHWIIIIIIIIIING! lol. Glad you're up, homie! lol.

Far as the seal, ..... there are 3 different part numbers for the 5spd, 87, 22re, blah blah, lol.... For the W56, etc., and then the R150, etc., ... I thought I had the R150... but not sure at all, at this point, lol. I guess they should know with the VIN, right? Btw, ..... I was on parts geek(not gonna use them, horrible reputation, just saying, ....that's where I saw "TIMKEN" and all the different part numbers. From what I know, Timken had some of the better wheel bearings, etc., right? Not sure, for all I know they're made in Zimbobwai now, lol. Ok, so Joe, just so I'm clear, .... JUST LIKE I DID MY DIFF AND AXLE HOUSING SURFACES, RIGHT? lol. And yes, especially the lower bolts that I pulled on the housing had FIPG on them. So, I'm guessing that those LARGE grooves in there are supposed to allow oil to travel from the main input shaft with the ball bearings, down through the housing to the other shaft with the needle bearings, right? Mine were COMPLETELY filled with FIPG ....well, most of it. Oil could NOT have passed through from that upper shaft to the lower portion, cuz they had it all plugged up. Funny thing is, ...the PO was a 20 Year Toyota Mechanic.... in his 40's, Orig. Owner.... and that's not the first stupid thing I've seen done to this rig! lol. Either the guys at the shop SCREWED IT UP, or, frankly, he didn't know what the heck he was doing! lol.. Hope it get it nice and clean and sealed up for good !!!

YEP! lol. And I'm grateful, STRAIGHT OUT! And, ....I DON'T forget this stuff. Once I've done it, I'm GOOD'2'GO! lol.

truckman1966

Ya i don't know about that.....

truckman1966

maybe i misunderstood chef. did the seal cut into the balancer or did the balancer burn the lip of the seal off?

PismoJoe

Yup Mark, just like when you put the rear diff in! Just make sure that the bolts have FIPG on the threads Yeah, those grooves function just as you described, having FIPG in them wouldn't be ideal.

As far as what transmission you have, it's located on that metal 'tag' on the firewall of the engine. There will be an A/TM spot (axle/transmission) and that will tell ya! Looks like this and is staring at you when you open the hood



Truckman, I don't know if you were implying that were wrong about the seal position, but looking at the inside of the front bearing retainer (input shaft cover) you should see this side of the seal. Chef's is in backwards

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

I don't think you misunderstood, Truckman, as far as the balancer/front main seal. The seal is cutting into the balancer. It's NOTHING like I've seen on some, .... and I'll check, but I don't think I can feel it with my findernail(that good ole test! Lol).. but it is darker where those portions of the seal ride on it. That's the reason I wondered about putting a 'sleeve' on, ya know? The balancer is VERY young, lol. I know what you're speaking of, the sleeves, ...they have them for the crank as well, in the rear for the rear main, front for the harmonic. The rear?>>>>>> Sure, after the crank guy gets the nasty groove out of that replacement crank..... I might be needing one of them! hahaha. I'll speak with the machinist today about that. Writing down lots of questions. lol. Thanks again, Truckman!

Awesome, Joe..... Yeah, I thought it was in the door jam.....which mine doesn't have. I'll check today. And, ....well, ....that explains a lot, regarding the trans. Luckily, I caught the leaking when I did, back in 2003..... kept it full every since. I'd like to stop it from leaking, COMPLETELY, lol. Thanks for the info, Joe, ...very cool! Also, I'm just curious..... Does the oil galley, if that's what it is, lol....that one that comes out almost to the edge of that cover, ...... when it's crossing the bearing housing indentation there, ....is that to keep the edge of the bearing lubed? Just wondering.

PismoJoe

I've never really thought too hard about that, sort of like the question "how does the positraction on a plymouth work?" - it just does! Haha but no that seems to be a good assumption. Manual transmissions are an oil 'sling' style, so essentially the fluid would be moved to the upper part of the transmission, then drain down, and then the process continues, so I think what I'm trying to say is the answer is yes

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hahahaha.... yeah, I hear ya. I only really asked because I wondered why they would fill all those areas? I think that they were THINKING was, "Hmmmm, If I seal off EVERYTHING outside this shaft, ...it wont leak"...... Not sure if they also thought, ..."Hmmmmm, I think this seal would work better MY WAY, not the books way!".... but regardless, ..... as is said, ....."THEY FAILED!" lol.

I'll brass brush that bastage up really well today, get the groves cleaned out and acetone time, and pick up the seal while I'm over on the other side of town. I'm also going to bring my harmonic with me, that way I can find out/show them that the OEM seal they ordered me doesn't come close to fitting an almost new Harmonic Balancer. Not sure if I mentioned that...but I had to return the front main I got from Toyota for 22$.... It basically just was totally loose around the harmonic sleeve. ???????? WTH? lol. And, I had him look up the number, yesterday, ....it was, sure enough, the right part number for my VIN, year, etc. ??????? lol. Yet, ....the SKF-KOK(?) Seal I have from Napa fits on there nicely. The seal I pulled out that was leaking was(I'll verify later) I believe a "TFI" or "FTM" or something like that. Just don't have it on me. I believe it was in the Kit left over from the first machinist. I had to replace it originally because when they delivered the motor they hooked a cable to the crank bolt and in the process they bend/tweaked the Front Main Seal(I still hadn't put together the new Harmonic to the old pulley assembly.... so you could see the front main when they delivered the motor. And it was clearly bent, .... I replaced it..... it didn't work, lol. BTW, that one doesn't go in backwards, does it? lol. It goes in the same as the rear main, right? hahaha. I only ask because, well, ..... I've never seen them go in any other way on the FM Seals or Rear mains. I think I get it... The Trans input shaft seal goes in backwards because it's on the BACK SIDE of the housing in this case....so it has to slide over almost to the trans face over the input shaft. Mehhhhh! lol.

PismoJoe

That's pretty interesting about the crank seal, are you using an aftermarket balancer? I have an lce balancer with an oe Toyota seal and no issues

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, it's an aftermarket one. I'm not sure I remember the name-brand. I thought it was Topline. Can't be sure. My harmonic is not WORN INTO like a nasty groove you can actually FEEL with your nail, etc...... but you can see a lil porosity and it's shined up where the seal I pulled out was running. The Napa Seal is at a different depth so I think it will be sitting in a different spot.

The weirdest part of this, Joe, ..... Why would a napa replacement fit PERFECTLY, ...but the OEM from the dealer flop around on there like a WAY TOO BIG wedding ring???? lol. Sorry, couldn't think of a better analogy, haha. I'd hate to have to replace my harmonic already... so I guess I'll just try the Napa Seal. BTW, .... did you put grease in the seal lip or just oil it or the shaft?

PismoJoe

Whenever you are doing a "shaft seal" (like the one I posted a pic of) you always want to grease the inside of the seal. I use 'seal glide' but white lithium would work just as well. Just so initially when the shaft starts spinning, it has some lubrication and won't destroy the seal.

Yeah that is interesting about the crank seal. I would just guess that the balancer most likely is a slightly different outer diameter (aftermarket part + aftermarket seal works, OE part + OE seal works) Not sure though lol

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Looks like Toyota in Santa Monica has a Front Main of a different number, ...WTH? I'll be right over there, and they also have the trans seal..... can't see saving 4$ as 'worth it' on the risk factor, lol. Yet, I'm sure Napa's SKF are fine! They also said, at Napa, "Dont' see a gasket for that housing...... sorry". I was just asking, not trying to use one preferably or anything. (Joe, ...thin layer all over the backing and trans side? Or bead around all holes and down center of outer of housing face? Sorry, not TRYING to be anal... just don't wanna go back in there, lol) I know on the slathering the bolts with a lil bit..... Would my Toyota FIPG be best? Or should I shoot for another type of RTV? I have MANY tubes of many types, hahaha. Black, Gray, yadda yadda, lol.

Thanks, guys, bbl8r

Mark

4runFreak

I have always found toyota FIPG to be the best overall.

xxxtreme22r

chef are you talking about the oil pump seal? aka front main? If so I think I got one laying around here from engnbldr.

truckman1966

If you are implying that the spring side is oil side then yes. i agree. wording got me confused.

PismoJoe

I confuse myself sometimes so don't worry

Mark, I would just use the toyota black FIPG, its the best and only $12 a tube. Apply the FIPG to the part that you removed (front bearing retainer), none on the transmission case. Again, just a 2/16" bead will do