ChefYota4x4's 1987 4Runner Build-Up Thread
05-16-2011, 09:12 PM
#2181
WOW chef! I will keep tuning in to see the progress! I had to go back and read through a few pages. That piece missing from your old black is odd. I remember a block coming in the shop a kid had with a similar issue. We ended up throwing it out and finding another block. There was really no way to repair it.
Keep up the good work. You'll get it worked out. As tedious as you are you will soon have a long lasting 22re in there.. I hope. I wouldn't do the 3vz swap. Just my 2 cents..
Good luck and let me know if I can help in any way.
Keep up the good work. You'll get it worked out. As tedious as you are you will soon have a long lasting 22re in there.. I hope. I wouldn't do the 3vz swap. Just my 2 cents..
Good luck and let me know if I can help in any way.
Take care, Jason, and be SAFE, ....Traveling mercies, man!
05-16-2011, 09:24 PM
#2182
Registered User
Bearings
Hey Chef,
Good to hear about the progress...
I'm no expert with the yota motor's to say the least but i did come to a conclusion on the bearing front. I like the "King" bearings mainly because of their construction. 2 types of metal versus 3 that are in most if not all others. The reason I like that is because of 2 things. The thicker you have the surface layer the more material it can collect without deforming/galling, what have you. The tri metal types have a very thin, very very thin layer of babbitt, which is the upper most layer and cannot collect very much before is is rubbed away and then you are into the copper layer. The copper layer is soft yes but not nearly as soft as the babbitt and you get the same thing deformation/galling/spun bearing, NO FUN!!! I ordered a set of "Kings" for my project and it was fairly inexpensive, sort of, from summit.
If you like here's the listing/part numbers for the King bearings:
http://www.king-bearings.com/cat/panel/pan1096.htm
it has all the numbers for the 22r/22re bearings. Keep in mind that the RE uses the same bearing across all 5 main journals. Use the listing for "5 pairs"
I know you knew that already but for some of those who didn't.
Anyways that's my .02
Good to hear about the progress...
I'm no expert with the yota motor's to say the least but i did come to a conclusion on the bearing front. I like the "King" bearings mainly because of their construction. 2 types of metal versus 3 that are in most if not all others. The reason I like that is because of 2 things. The thicker you have the surface layer the more material it can collect without deforming/galling, what have you. The tri metal types have a very thin, very very thin layer of babbitt, which is the upper most layer and cannot collect very much before is is rubbed away and then you are into the copper layer. The copper layer is soft yes but not nearly as soft as the babbitt and you get the same thing deformation/galling/spun bearing, NO FUN!!! I ordered a set of "Kings" for my project and it was fairly inexpensive, sort of, from summit.
If you like here's the listing/part numbers for the King bearings:
http://www.king-bearings.com/cat/panel/pan1096.htm
it has all the numbers for the 22r/22re bearings. Keep in mind that the RE uses the same bearing across all 5 main journals. Use the listing for "5 pairs"
I know you knew that already but for some of those who didn't.
Anyways that's my .02
05-17-2011, 07:58 AM
#2185
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Hey Chef.. Sorry to hear about your old block. My laptop at work went south on me. Need get it fixed so I can keep caught up on things.
As detailed as you are, just doesnt seem fair. I know of others that just drive their 22res abusively (my brother) and those of us that try to take care of them seem to be the ones that get bit in the butt.
Will be looking forward to your build. Maybe this wil be the million mile motor.
As detailed as you are, just doesnt seem fair. I know of others that just drive their 22res abusively (my brother) and those of us that try to take care of them seem to be the ones that get bit in the butt.
Will be looking forward to your build. Maybe this wil be the million mile motor.
05-17-2011, 11:44 AM
#2186
Hey Chef,
Good to hear about the progress...
I'm no expert with the yota motor's to say the least but i did come to a conclusion on the bearing front. I like the "King" bearings mainly because of their construction. 2 types of metal versus 3 that are in most if not all others. The reason I like that is because of 2 things. The thicker you have the surface layer the more material it can collect without deforming/galling, what have you. The tri metal types have a very thin, very very thin layer of babbitt, which is the upper most layer and cannot collect very much before is is rubbed away and then you are into the copper layer. The copper layer is soft yes but not nearly as soft as the babbitt and you get the same thing deformation/galling/spun bearing, NO FUN!!! I ordered a set of "Kings" for my project and it was fairly inexpensive, sort of, from summit.
If you like here's the listing/part numbers for the King bearings:
http://www.king-bearings.com/cat/panel/pan1096.htm
it has all the numbers for the 22r/22re bearings. Keep in mind that the RE uses the same bearing across all 5 main journals. Use the listing for "5 pairs"
I know you knew that already but for some of those who didn't.
Anyways that's my .02
Good to hear about the progress...
I'm no expert with the yota motor's to say the least but i did come to a conclusion on the bearing front. I like the "King" bearings mainly because of their construction. 2 types of metal versus 3 that are in most if not all others. The reason I like that is because of 2 things. The thicker you have the surface layer the more material it can collect without deforming/galling, what have you. The tri metal types have a very thin, very very thin layer of babbitt, which is the upper most layer and cannot collect very much before is is rubbed away and then you are into the copper layer. The copper layer is soft yes but not nearly as soft as the babbitt and you get the same thing deformation/galling/spun bearing, NO FUN!!! I ordered a set of "Kings" for my project and it was fairly inexpensive, sort of, from summit.
If you like here's the listing/part numbers for the King bearings:
http://www.king-bearings.com/cat/panel/pan1096.htm
it has all the numbers for the 22r/22re bearings. Keep in mind that the RE uses the same bearing across all 5 main journals. Use the listing for "5 pairs"
I know you knew that already but for some of those who didn't.
Anyways that's my .02
I will keep that list handy(already bookmarked it),....yet, I'm very confident in this machinist/builder and I'm sure he'll have the exact numbers to just call King with and order, "Hey, send me a set of main _ _ _ and rod _ _ _! " hahaha... Yeah, he yells like that all the time(in fun, everyone knows that's 'just him') lol. REALLY enjoyed the last couple times hanging out with him, watching him do EVO and other HYPO motors for customers, etc. He tore down my head the other week in about 10 seconds, lol. Anyway, ....he'll know what to do, and he NEVER has given me grief about suggesting anything...... Just rolls of the eyes from some of what I've shared that I've 'heard', etc., haha. For instance, ....he's had heads come back after 140K or so, no less most often, and the guys say, "YEP, same thing as last time", ...and so, ...yeah, I'll trust his judgement, ....while still adding questions like, "Would I be best off with the King Set?" As I said,...If I told him, 'use these, ok?', he'd say, "Ok, no prob."....but then share if he disagrees with my reasons. He even said, "Hey, I can go chilled iron on the guides if you want...that's what you said, ...and I want you to have WHAT YOU want, not be told this time what you want... and if you're CLEARLY wrong, I'll tell you and why, don't worry"... but I will just let the guy build the head like he thinks is best. He's giving me AN INSANE deal, and seems to be trying to 'help me out' and he's even making calls to engineers he knows, asking, "what have you heard on this end? I want the best 'this' or 'that' I can get.....he doesn't mind spending a lil more... lay it on me!" , ....so I wont be too pushy unless I've heard something that makes me leery of using this or that.
Thanks again, Xyphus, ...stop by ANY TIME and share whatever 'cents' you have, lol.
) hahaha. So that'll help, RIGHT???? LOL. I'm still debating whether to replace the UCA bushings, ..... I would love some input on why I should or shouldn't bother removing the upper arms. I know it's MUCH more drama than the LCA's.......but I don't want to avoid it if it's just a matter of 'TIME', ya know? Hey Chef.. Sorry to hear about your old block. My laptop at work went south on me. Need get it fixed so I can keep caught up on things.
As detailed as you are, just doesnt seem fair. I know of others that just drive their 22res abusively (my brother) and those of us that try to take care of them seem to be the ones that get bit in the butt.
Will be looking forward to your build. Maybe this wil be the million mile motor.
As detailed as you are, just doesnt seem fair. I know of others that just drive their 22res abusively (my brother) and those of us that try to take care of them seem to be the ones that get bit in the butt.
Will be looking forward to your build. Maybe this wil be the million mile motor.
The Suspension? >>>> SAME THING! lol. Can't wait to get her a lil more quiet and happy on the bumpditally bumps! lol.
05-17-2011, 02:31 PM
#2191
Truckman,...that is REALLY AWESOME of you to do that for me! Thanks, man! I'll print these out and head into his shop before he orders everything and, well, ask him to show me how to use a couple tools(micrometers, etc.), cuz I REALLY want to go through the Rocker Shaft, especially. I might still send it off to Putney's, ...he's told me he'll trick it out for me, replace what's necessary, etc. Plus, I have an extra set of rockers in GREAT shape from my buddy.
Far as the bearings, .... can I conclude that I should use NPR Rings and King Bearings? I appreciate your expertize and will gratefully take your advice and take it to him. He's very willing to do whatever I want, and I'm sure has some input as well, via seeing things with 'WHATEVER' in them come to him. My bearings weren't that bad, but there was a lil bit much on the wear for this early, and he wants to use the new crank if possible, so he can do just a 10-M and 10-R grind on it if possible. Mine is already 30-R and 20-M(I think, maybe the other way around, lol) and he said his awesome Crank shop will let us know which one is best.
Thanks again, Truckman, that was very kind of you, I appreciate you taking the time, very much!
Mark
Far as the bearings, .... can I conclude that I should use NPR Rings and King Bearings? I appreciate your expertize and will gratefully take your advice and take it to him. He's very willing to do whatever I want, and I'm sure has some input as well, via seeing things with 'WHATEVER' in them come to him. My bearings weren't that bad, but there was a lil bit much on the wear for this early, and he wants to use the new crank if possible, so he can do just a 10-M and 10-R grind on it if possible. Mine is already 30-R and 20-M(I think, maybe the other way around, lol) and he said his awesome Crank shop will let us know which one is best.
Thanks again, Truckman, that was very kind of you, I appreciate you taking the time, very much!
Mark
05-17-2011, 02:38 PM
#2192
OK, Guys, .....
Today, I've;
1. Removed the Trans Front Seal plate/w/seal and drained the trans.
2. Drained the Front Diff(it was REALLY clean, the fluid)....
3. Unbolted the front pivot bolt, loosened the 2 others and will crack the CV-to-DIFF bolts, then remove it tomorrow(have to work tonight, so had to stop)
Curious...... Question, actually;
*** When I removed the drain bolt of the front diff, ....Unlike the rear one, the front one hissed for a bit. Am I right in assuming that it's most likely my Front Diff Breather was not .....well, breathing? lol. I have an all new diff, but have to transfer the tube/axle from mine to the 4.30 diff I'm going to install. My point being, ... the new one, YotaRob was using with no issues.... so I don't wanna mess with it if possible. Just curious....should I remove the breather just for S&G's and clean it out as well as possible?
Thanks, guys, ....Hopefully have the diff and trans seal done tomorrow, and then can move on to the Suspension Restore and Diff Drop/BJ Spacers/All new Ball Joints(including the Mega Travel Sankei's from Downey), New Shocks, New OEM Bushings on both Control Arms(have questions about that) and new OEM Bushings and drop kit for the Sway Bar as well. Should ride like a CHERRY when I'm done.....granting I don't break something while installing/removing! lol.
Any input appreciated, as usual!
Mark
Today, I've;
1. Removed the Trans Front Seal plate/w/seal and drained the trans.
2. Drained the Front Diff(it was REALLY clean, the fluid)....
3. Unbolted the front pivot bolt, loosened the 2 others and will crack the CV-to-DIFF bolts, then remove it tomorrow(have to work tonight, so had to stop)
Curious...... Question, actually;
*** When I removed the drain bolt of the front diff, ....Unlike the rear one, the front one hissed for a bit. Am I right in assuming that it's most likely my Front Diff Breather was not .....well, breathing? lol. I have an all new diff, but have to transfer the tube/axle from mine to the 4.30 diff I'm going to install. My point being, ... the new one, YotaRob was using with no issues.... so I don't wanna mess with it if possible. Just curious....should I remove the breather just for S&G's and clean it out as well as possible?
Thanks, guys, ....Hopefully have the diff and trans seal done tomorrow, and then can move on to the Suspension Restore and Diff Drop/BJ Spacers/All new Ball Joints(including the Mega Travel Sankei's from Downey), New Shocks, New OEM Bushings on both Control Arms(have questions about that) and new OEM Bushings and drop kit for the Sway Bar as well. Should ride like a CHERRY when I'm done.....granting I don't break something while installing/removing! lol.
Any input appreciated, as usual!
Mark
05-17-2011, 07:49 PM
#2193
Registered User
Truckman,...that is REALLY AWESOME of you to do that for me! Thanks, man! I'll print these out and head into his shop before he orders everything and, well, ask him to show me how to use a couple tools(micrometers, etc.), cuz I REALLY want to go through the Rocker Shaft, especially. I might still send it off to Putney's, ...he's told me he'll trick it out for me, replace what's necessary, etc. Plus, I have an extra set of rockers in GREAT shape from my buddy.
Far as the bearings, .... can I conclude that I should use NPR Rings and King Bearings? I appreciate your expertize and will gratefully take your advice and take it to him. He's very willing to do whatever I want, and I'm sure has some input as well, via seeing things with 'WHATEVER' in them come to him. My bearings weren't that bad, but there was a lil bit much on the wear for this early, and he wants to use the new crank if possible, so he can do just a 10-M and 10-R grind on it if possible. Mine is already 30-R and 20-M(I think, maybe the other way around, lol) and he said his awesome Crank shop will let us know which one is best.
Thanks again, Truckman, that was very kind of you, I appreciate you taking the time, very much!
Mark
Far as the bearings, .... can I conclude that I should use NPR Rings and King Bearings? I appreciate your expertize and will gratefully take your advice and take it to him. He's very willing to do whatever I want, and I'm sure has some input as well, via seeing things with 'WHATEVER' in them come to him. My bearings weren't that bad, but there was a lil bit much on the wear for this early, and he wants to use the new crank if possible, so he can do just a 10-M and 10-R grind on it if possible. Mine is already 30-R and 20-M(I think, maybe the other way around, lol) and he said his awesome Crank shop will let us know which one is best.
Thanks again, Truckman, that was very kind of you, I appreciate you taking the time, very much!
Mark
After you get everything back, without the pistons and rods in, the crank should spin like glass in the block. after the pistons and rods are in, it should be a little tighter but you should be able to spin the crank over easily with a 19MM wrench on the crank bolt (Jeez i have put way too many of these things together!!!)
Good luck Chef and let me know if you need any rods, crank, or just misc crap. LOL
05-17-2011, 07:54 PM
#2194
Registered User
Hey chef, nice progress man! You're right about the hissing, its the breather pretty much not doing its job, but it still is working at least!
I have NPR rings in my engine, and it well, runs great when its cold LOL! No but really, I don't even have 1k on my engine and it has never burned oil
You gonna ditch the paper gasket for that trans input shaft cover?
I have NPR rings in my engine, and it well, runs great when its cold LOL! No but really, I don't even have 1k on my engine and it has never burned oil
You gonna ditch the paper gasket for that trans input shaft cover?
05-17-2011, 08:01 PM
#2195
Thanks, Truckman... I'll let you know! BTW, ...the guy looked at the numbers and INSTANTLY shook his head and grimaced and said, "...Yeah, I don't wanna use this, sorry. If we have to, we can, but look at the size of these bearings, ...that's because he gave your orig. crank up due to cog key excessive wear you told me about, ...then got another one that needed THIS MUCH GRIND? THAT'S RIDICULOUS.... I would have waited till they sent me one that was good to go..... and he charged you 100$ or more for this probably.... what a tool!... Nope, we'll send them both, and watch, he'll use the one you just took out, scoring from spun bearing and all!" hahaha.
05-17-2011, 08:10 PM
#2196
HEY JOE! Man, long time, no speakage! lol.
Well, I guess I am going to ditch it??????? lol. I see channels where it looks like Toyota filled with sealer. Honestly?...I don't see any paper gasket in it, but according to the number and name on the seal, ...it's orig., 262K. Here's some pics, and sorry, I cleaned off some of the sealer
..................
For those ready to do this, ... Remove this fork and CARE FOR THOSE FORK SPRINGS! Don't lose them!..........Then remove the input shaft bearing and housing, then remove the 6 bolts and carefully pry the whole cover off.......
Exploded view......(for reference for me as much as just to look at, lol).....
I will also be yoinking the worm shaft from the yolk on the steering apparatus, .... the wheel is still not straight, GRR! lol. ......
Then, just some pics for reference of the removed Diff main/pivot mounting bolt removed, the sides where the Control Arms need to be yoinked for the bushings, .... etc.....
************************************************** ************
Please, guys,....KNOW that I KNOW that I'm blessed to not be eaten away by rust, etc. I've cared for this thing very well, but, well, just being where I am has a HUGE part in it, I'm fully aware! I really admire and feel for the guys back east, like Brandon, Jerry, Brian, ....many more, who have to deal with SO MANY stubborn projects! Still.... if you guys have any ideas, shortcuts, etc., I'd be grateful! lol.
Thanks,
Mark
Well, I guess I am going to ditch it??????? lol. I see channels where it looks like Toyota filled with sealer. Honestly?...I don't see any paper gasket in it, but according to the number and name on the seal, ...it's orig., 262K. Here's some pics, and sorry, I cleaned off some of the sealer
..................For those ready to do this, ... Remove this fork and CARE FOR THOSE FORK SPRINGS! Don't lose them!..........Then remove the input shaft bearing and housing, then remove the 6 bolts and carefully pry the whole cover off.......
Exploded view......(for reference for me as much as just to look at, lol).....
I will also be yoinking the worm shaft from the yolk on the steering apparatus, .... the wheel is still not straight, GRR! lol. ......
Then, just some pics for reference of the removed Diff main/pivot mounting bolt removed, the sides where the Control Arms need to be yoinked for the bushings, .... etc.....
************************************************** ************
Please, guys,....KNOW that I KNOW that I'm blessed to not be eaten away by rust, etc. I've cared for this thing very well, but, well, just being where I am has a HUGE part in it, I'm fully aware! I really admire and feel for the guys back east, like Brandon, Jerry, Brian, ....many more, who have to deal with SO MANY stubborn projects! Still.... if you guys have any ideas, shortcuts, etc., I'd be grateful! lol.
Thanks,
Mark
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 05-17-2011 at 08:13 PM.
05-17-2011, 08:24 PM
#2197
Registered User
Nice Chef!
That's interesting...what's even more interesting is that the FIPG used looks black, which they used gray from the factory. Maybe she's been done at some point?
Anyways, solid!!
That's interesting...what's even more interesting is that the FIPG used looks black, which they used gray from the factory. Maybe she's been done at some point?
Anyways, solid!!
05-17-2011, 08:31 PM
#2198
Hey Joe, ...yeah, not sure. It's SO NASTY that I'm unsure it's NOT gray! lol. Was, I mean.
I need to hit the FSM for how to apply it..... as, the two portions that seem to be joined by a channel? That was FILLED with RTV, ...in the middle, ya know what I'm speaking of? All the lil galley's were filled too. However, I'm not sure those channels aren't filled with CRAP, ....not RTV at all, hahaha. Just wanna be sure THE BEST way to apply it, ya know?
I'm also thinking of an updated seal, from the dealer(I KNOW< I KNOW> .... but I can't wait weeks, lol)....reason I was thinking that is; They update them thinner and thinner, .... that means it wont ride on the shaft in the same place(as you know, of course).....but I keep finding that the Aftermarket ones are always the same depth, no mention of updating, etc. In fact, the front main replacement from Napa(extra one I had) will ride on EXACTLY the same place as the one that's leaking right now! lol. Different crank....but SAME HARMONIC, ya know? lol.
I need to hit the FSM for how to apply it..... as, the two portions that seem to be joined by a channel? That was FILLED with RTV, ...in the middle, ya know what I'm speaking of? All the lil galley's were filled too. However, I'm not sure those channels aren't filled with CRAP, ....not RTV at all, hahaha. Just wanna be sure THE BEST way to apply it, ya know?
I'm also thinking of an updated seal, from the dealer(I KNOW< I KNOW> .... but I can't wait weeks, lol)....reason I was thinking that is; They update them thinner and thinner, .... that means it wont ride on the shaft in the same place(as you know, of course).....but I keep finding that the Aftermarket ones are always the same depth, no mention of updating, etc. In fact, the front main replacement from Napa(extra one I had) will ride on EXACTLY the same place as the one that's leaking right now! lol. Different crank....but SAME HARMONIC, ya know? lol.
05-17-2011, 09:18 PM
#2199
Registered User
Yeah man it did look nasty in that bellhousing!
As far as applying the RTV it looks as though those grooves are for the input shaft bearing, I wouldn't apply it directly in those grooves. Put a small bead in the center of the front bearing retainer flange (the cover) and you should be good to go 
BTW good choice on a Toyota seal!
As far as applying the RTV it looks as though those grooves are for the input shaft bearing, I wouldn't apply it directly in those grooves. Put a small bead in the center of the front bearing retainer flange (the cover
) and you should be good to go BTW good choice on a Toyota seal!
05-17-2011, 10:01 PM
#2200
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.....i Hope you know that your input shaft seal is in backwards. Someone has been in there to replace the seal (because its backwards to begin with) and Toyota NEVER used silicone or FIPG on those input shaft housings.
Last edited by spc mike; 05-17-2011 at 10:04 PM.
