ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Seriously.... I'll be back later from taking mom's to ANOTHER Bday dinner, ...and then I'll start into my block. Also, I'll be posting pics anddddddddd ...some links to 'kits' that I would like to know, if I need them, would be the way to go.

1 Kit is clevite 77 just the bearing kit, ...45$.

The other is an NPR kit with everything, pistons, bearings, etc., for 94$(I think that's one that someone told me is the same as enginetech, etc., ...all China, but not bad, not good... I just am learning, so as I said, ...hit me with yer knowledge, bruthaz! lol.

92 TOY

hey Mark....nothing to add for ya sorry. Brandon should be online soon as he was doing the mud bog thing and LUMPY just left my house about 45 minutes ago for his about 6hr ride home.

PismoJoe

Yoooo Mark! Haven't been around for a while, but damn you are along for a wild ride on this one! Likin the motivation, hope all is well! And hope your machinist isn't still touching peoples engines!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

I will do so, regarding having EVERYTHING with me, ....and as a matter of fact, I think he will let me do most of it with him. He seems to like me quite a bit and has spent over 3 hours in 2 visits just shooting the crap(just about EVERYTHING, lol)..... So I will ask him about this, and offer to pay extra for EXTRA DETAILED ATTENTION! LOL.

Far as the rings, I will mention this as well. He's been doing this almost 40 years, ...so I will probably go with whatever he thinks, and I tell ya, Brandon.... this whole "Ring Gapping" topic is VERY LOADED on every site I've looked up. I still need to look it up on here, as well, but on the Vette, Mustang and even some more common Japanese Builder Forums, ......MANY DIFFERING opinions, ...... as usual, ahhaha.

I understand the more recent feelings of having the second down ring having a slightly larger gap(by maybe a 10'thousandth), that pressure in built up in between the first two rings can't back up and cause blow by or premature unseating of the top ring....which only gets worse and worse from there.

This really is a good topic, Brandon... I mean WHY NOT, RIGHT? I'm CERTAIN that Toyota paid VERY important attention to the gapping of rings, plugs, valve lash, cam duration, .....EVERYTHING, .... Just like with that new Lexus supercar, .......they took 10 years to make it, then took another 2 because it just wasn't light enough, right? lol. So, they made the whole body carbon fiber, etc. I KNOW, ...this is a "UNBREAKABLE" SERIES, ...not a supercar, lol. But, many thousands of hours went into making these rigs 'unbreakable'...... and I think with today's commonality of 'CRATE' AND 'MASS PRODUCED' Building facilities, here and in China.... people are, well, getting what they pay for, and AT LEAST....they're getting back what they put into it, when considering whether or not to 'go the extra mile' with the 'being anal' portion of the thousandths this and ten thousandths that, .....eh? lol.

Anyway, .... I wanna do this TO THE TEE, PROPER, .....and if I can come to him with a SOLID base of things...maybe he'd be EVEN MORE likely to ''do this EXTRA TIGHT" for me, eh?

PS> Thanks, Jerry

PSS> SUP JOE???????? Long time man!

waynesworld

hey chef, sup? looks like u r on the rite track now bro! i don't have any thing 2 add cause u have all these other guys xx22, truckman, etc. and im still learning myself . good luck with the rebuild mark! ( i hope this isn't considered a thread jack ?)
im building my engine now , what is the best way 2 post picks ?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Wayne, ....don't sweat it, ....no one posts much on my thread on the weekend, lol. And thanks, brudda.... I appreciate it, and I hope yours also goes well. DANG, btw, ...an Actually Brand new ACTUAL Toyota Block? lol. Like, ...from Toyota? Fhewwwwww, ... I'll ask later what that hit ya fer! lol....

For now, the pics;

Pretty easy, Wayne, .... just go to Photobucket.com and set up an account(unless you have one, of course).... Then, click on the "New Album" thing(I believe that's what it says, ...you'll find it). Name it "My 22re Build" or something like that. Once you've created the album, it will be time to upload pics to said album. (There's usually a big green icon, stating "Upload pics to"... or "from", ..anyway, ...you upload them from your computer, straight to the photobucket album, then click "save to my album and continue", ....and from there, it's cake. Once you've done all that, it will take you back to the thumbnails of the whole album(30 pics on same page)...... put your cursor over any pic, and a lil block of options will pop up. ............. Click on the bottom one(IMG), and it will automatically copy the "IMG" format. Then, just come to your yotatech thread and in the box, right click in the box where you type, and then left click 'PASTE' .... and voila!.... You have pics in your build thread. Best wishes on the build, Wayne!

truckman1966

As far as ring gap, if he's a good machinist, he will bore and hone the block to match the specific piston sizes for the correct piston to wall clearance and also check ring gaps after the block is bored and honed to match the pistons. the whole process is called "fitting pistons" and all aspects of that process are important. I will hop on alldata tomorrow at work and give you the toyota specs for piston to wall clearance, ring gap, blah blah blah.

twistedyota

iTrader: (1)

hey chef, you should check muscle car on powerblocktv.com they showed some good stuff about building engines even some on ring gap. just something to look at

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks a lot, Truckman! .....hahaha...yeah, the 'blah, blah, blah' portion is becoming less and less like Rocket Science to me and more like.... 'biology'? lol.

We were also discussing 'ring gap', ...and that seemed to be quite the interesting discussion full of differing opinions, as well, amongst many different forums.

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Also, guys;

Since I'm doing all new valves, guides, seals.... I'm going to replace the springs now as well. I'm not satisfied with the "it's probably fine" or "that's probably not an issue".... Don't get me wrong,....I FULLY understand "if it aint broke" theory, ....and I think after all the dang drama, I'm ready to just take out as much as possible from the equation. When I'm done with the long block, ...if I still have missing and such, that's ok, I'll go from there into the IGN and EFI system a lil deeper and PUT THIS TO BED, once and for all(harness, dizzy, whatever it is, IT WILL be ruled out/verified/replaced, PERIOD!) HAHAHA.

Also, I spoke to Ted, ...he said to "DEFINITELY NEW BEARINGS!.... Only crush keeps a bearing from spinning, so I always replace them, worn or not." Considering they're only a few more bucks, ..I have no problem with that, at all. I'm sure I could re-use at least the rod bearings, but I would definitely feel better knowing they're all new, ..... 40$? Yeah, while it might not be necessary, I'ma just do em.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, Twisted....

I will see if I can spy it out through the laptop...Still working today : / hahaha. But, .... I will just chill a bit on that stuff.... WHILE OF COURSE still hoping for input lol.... because this guy IS really good, very good reputation, etc. Plus, I think the part of letting me take part in it? YES, that's important to me. I wont get in his way, ...just saying, learning how to bore and such? Definitely interested and would probably make me feel a lot better about ''THE END PRODUCT", ya know? He's VERY busy, ..so I hope to actually get in there Monday and at least get the block hot tanked, have some other stuff checked out, etc.

The ring part is pretty clear cut. I need 20-over ring set.... but the bearings? I would imagine depending on which crank I use, how much damage if any was done to this replacement block, etc., ..... the ring specs can vary, right? So, ...we'll see on that.

4runFreak

Thats awesome he is letting you be a part of the process chef! Thats important, and a good skill that you can learn. Good Luck

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, Mr. Freak De La 4Runnair! lol.

OK, guys, ....

Just trying to figure something out.... I thought maybe people might consider discussing rings, bearings, etc. Some say 'THIS', some say 'THAT', and I am just curious if any of you have FOUND OUT or know of a SOLID link to whom might know.... WHO MAKES THE OEM BEARING KITS FOR THIS 22RE? lol. Couple sites say "Taiho" are OEM, and some sites even sell them saying "OEM BEARING KIT"! NPR seems to make all the rings and bearings in their kits, ...but Nippon has been sold or something? I'm completely clueless as to one simple thing,....DOES ANYONE feel comfortable saying, "THESE(Insert name here, lol) are the BEST Rings and Bearings you can buy, PERIOD!" ????

Please, don't think I'm trying to pressure anyone to answer me or do my research,....HONESTLY, I've been searching for hours, ...just can't seem to find any solid answers.

Plus, .... hey, if someone says, "I build motors with (Rock, ITM, JE, CP, WHATEVER, lol), ...never have a problem, ...BUT THOSE TAIHO ONES? OMGOSH< terrible!" then GREAT! lol.

I wanna do this right, guys, ONCE AND FOR ALL, and the guy will probably be taking the motor, tomorrow.... So if I could go to him with a preference, ...THAT WOULD ROCK! lol.

Ted wrote me a couple times, btw, in response.

Basically thinks I'm on the right path, and yet, he added, "I wouldn't use the Toyota Pistons you've got out of that new block.... They've even had problems with them" 'SOMETHING' he said, sounded like 'curling' I think....anyway, "and because they were alllllllll aluminum... They've come a long way in 24 years,....and I'd stick with your '4500 MILE OLD ONES!" GOTTA LOVE THE TED! Always gives an answer,.....and always is clear, "Just sharing what I've learned and know!" Not, ..."HEY, STUPID, ...don't use those fancy things, ...they stink!" ....ALTHOUGH, hahaha... he has told me he feels that way about the Cold Air Intake systems, as has Putney's and a couple others. Headers, on the other hand..... hahaha.

Any input, as usual, would be greatly appreciated and GREAT FUN, EH? hahaha.

Z's Confederate Toy

Im not sure on the rings. I always use the ones that come in the master rebuild kits but as for the bearings, I'm tellin ya the Clevite 77's are the best hands down dont go with anything else. They should cover every application that you need them for.

4runFreak

i agree with Zach. Dont use anything other than the Clevite 77's

truckman1966

clevites. obviously you are going to get what you pay for on parts. I like NPR's only because i like the Nippon company as a whole. Ive used JE's and Wiseco's both in a couple 7M-GTE's I've built, Keith Black's in my 454 BBC, Nippon's in my 20R and a customer at work's 6G72 Mitsu. Needless to say, I havent had a problem with any of them, but i go through and check everything before taking all the parts and pieces to MY machinist. and ALL of these motors have been balanced by Perpetual Balance in Anacortes, WA and all my machine work has been done by Bob Camping of Machine Works of Lynden, WA. he knows his stuff and he likes to talk numbers with someone that understands them. Just so you know, one gram of static imbalance translates to almost 7 lbs @ 6K RPM. (This fact alone is why I have every engine that i do balanced. My 20R is balanced to .2g imbalance) and a good machinist should have access to a good balancing shop and you should be able to have a 4cyl done for $150-$200 in addition to machining costs.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Guys, ....(and THANKS, TRUCKMAN! )

Got this response from Ted on this.........

">>>*Well, Clevite used to be very good, Taiwan now. "Clevite 77" hasn't been around for many many years, Michigan bought out the "77" logo and Clevite sold out to another company. I long since lost track of all of that, I am sure they will work fine though."

Taiho APPEAR to be the True Japanese Bearings that go in these beasts.... but they are in limited supply and, as for price.... here's a couple examples....

Just the main bearing set.........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TAIHO...Q5fAccessories

Rod bearings, .....................

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TAIHO...Q5fAccessories

Thrust washers set...........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TAIHO...Q5fAccessories

Geeesh, lol.

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Here's another site...........(I BELIEVE, IIRC, that Putney's uses these, "KING" bearings)..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOT...item2a109d083c

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Lots of stuff out there, .... I read on Engnbldr's sites that they use "King" Bearings. Most likely order all the stuff I need from them, providing they have it in stock.

Rings, Bearings(Rod, Main, Thrust), Valve Springs/Guides/Seals(already have the valves and should have all the OEM Gaskets I'll need, except for the rear main, rear main housing cover gasket and front main--- Not sure what happened on the front main, but the updated one I got from Toyota IS NOT for a 22re Harmonic...NO WAY IN HECK! lol.)

Tomorrow, God willin and the Creek don't rise,..... the block is off for hot tank and bore over..... The head and other goodies will be coming along as well.

Anyway, was just making conversation while I wait for tomorrow, hahaha... and, well, I AM trying to TAKE IN the info from as many Guru's like yourself, Truckman. Thanks again.

I hear ya on the balancing...... I will make sure that's on the agenda. Definitely worth the lil extra cabbage!

truckman1966

ya i heard rumors about the clevites and i believe dana/spicer/victor reinz owns them now. still have good quality. and I have used King bearings before in all kinds of factory replacement stuff when i worked at Yamato Engines in Bellingham WA. I also got to do Quality Department failure analyses of warrantied engines so i got to see everything (parts, machining, and assembly procedures) that failed after the units left the building. pretty cool experience to do that kind of stuff.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Right on, Truckman, ...that IS, indeed, a very cool experience to have had. Provides great insight, I'd imagine, eh! lol. Far as the bearings, ....we talked quite a bit about that, but I think he finds NPR/Japan and King to be his fav's.... used to use only Taiho on Toyota and Honda, but I guess they're not producing/out of biz(?) and the ones hording that stuff are asking quite a bit, as you can see from the links I posted.

Ok guys, ...........

Dropped off the block, ALL the pistons with rods(both motors) and both cranks, caps, etc.,.... Head and all the goodies as well.

I went back to get the other crank from the yard motor, ......because J.A.C.'s Machinist, who will be doing all the machining, balancing, etc., said, "OOoh, ..... I see what you were talking about with the crank work that's been done....... R-30 & M-20(rod and main grind), ..... I would rather check your other crank, just to be sure. I'm taking it to my crank shop, they're the best, and they'll tell us if this new to you crank from the yard motor is untouched... If so, that's what we'll use, as we can possibly go to a max of M-10 & R-10,.... The less taken off a crank the better.... and this other one you've been running has to be AT LEAST polished, ..possibly even ground a lil more, as some of the stuff I'm seeing is already a lil too much wear for 4500 miles. Let's see which one they say would work best with the new block.... go from there, eh?" ........ He then went through some basics and gave me a lot of insight into how it's done...RIGHT, ...and how it's FAR MORE OFTEN, LATELY, done 'wrong'. VERY cool info, and ...well, needless to say, I'm VERY comfortable at this point on the route I'm taking.

Not only that, but he's going to let me be a part of any section of the process that I want. I'm going to watch him bore out the block, crank journals, install the guides, etc.

Lastly, and most importantly, .....he's basically doing ALL of this for around 500$!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He knows the guy who did my motor last year, and has been getting plenty of his work that's not lasted even a year in some cases..... and he said, 'I've vowed to give insane deals to those whom have been dealt the wrath of V-Machining', hahaha. REALLY GOOD DAY, thus far!

Sooooooooo, in the meantime, I'm going to pick up the Trans seal, Rear Main seal and the PROPER Front main seal(yeah, they gave me one for a 97 4cyl..I'm guessing a 2RZ or 3RZ.... much bigger 'ID' than the 'OD' of my Harmonic surface). I'm also considering doing all of the suspension work. I have a good Impact Wrench, all the parts, no major rust under there and I can't see any reason to wait any longer to do my suspension at that garage with the lift(I'm sure if he could do it he would have. Either way, I don't wanna be a pest, and I didn't help wanting anything in return..... so it's all good, ya know? lol.) I will also be doing the front Third Member swap. Should be pretty much, "MUCH EASIER" now that the motor is out, eh? lol.

I'd like to do the tie rods, etc., ..... but I have to pay for other things I still owe for before I start developing new projects, ya know?

Thanks, guys, ... I sure hope it works out this time, as I REALLY would like this thread to PROGRESS! lol.

I'll get plenty of pics, if possible, guys!

Mark

toyospearo

WOW chef! I will keep tuning in to see the progress! I had to go back and read through a few pages. That piece missing from your old black is odd. I remember a block coming in the shop a kid had with a similar issue. We ended up throwing it out and finding another block. There was really no way to repair it.
Keep up the good work. You'll get it worked out. As tedious as you are you will soon have a long lasting 22re in there.. I hope. I wouldn't do the 3vz swap. Just my 2 cents..
Good luck and let me know if I can help in any way.

jason in tn

Glad to hear the good news man. Wish I could make it our there and help ya with that front end, but you know what's going on in my world, but I will be watching and keeping up.