4runFreak

Thats just about what it would cost me. And yeah its pretty simple all you need is the haynes manual, plastigauge, and a tourque wrench. Best of luck to you Chef

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, guys, .....

Well, looks like most want 100$ for a bare 22r block in "bore-able condition". Problem is, ....most every yard has short blocks, they wont dis-assemble them and they want 150$ for the short blocks. Only place I've found so far for the bare block is in La Puente ....... lil bit of a drive for me, lol. Not too bad, but dangit! lol. I've a couple more places to call and then I'll head off to get one. Probably wont get it worked on till Monday at the earliest seeing as it's the weekend, now! lol.

That's ok, that'll give me time to dis-assemble mine, maybe plastiguage the bearings, etc., before I pull it, just to see what kind of, if any, nightmares are going on in there? Honestly, ....other than this piece missing and the glazed holes.... I think this block was fine. Oh well, bummer, move on! lol.

Another problem..... NO stand! lol. I have a hoist, .....that's not gonna do for disassembly. Could maybe do it on blocks on the ground.... we'll see...I'd have to flip it to do so, ....wouldn't be too bad, so I might.

10$ round trip in gas to La Puente..... Might just have to do so, ..... in fact, sounds good! lol. I mean, ...why should I pay another 50$ for a block full of stuff that I wont use????? lol...... Although..... I could sell the crank and rods, right? Let me know what you think on that one, guys! THANKS, SO MUCH, for the input thus far.

I'MA DO THIS, HOMIES! hahaha. Wish I had a bore machining thingymadoer! lol.

PS> Looks like my rear main, the NEW ONE, ...is leaking as well! Not sure what this guy did wrong, with both front and rear leaking at 4k, ...but I'll have to fix that as well.

nvtoyota

good luck chef

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

THANKS, NV!

I'm going to stick with the short block, ....here's why. I can KNOW it's not already been bored over at my favorite yard, because the one they have, out of a 95 with 120K miles, ....it's got the original toyota Pistons in it! lol. If I get a bare block, ...I'm not a machinist, and I'd have to drive all the way to La Puente and take their word for it.

Thus, this route at my yard, I'll dis-assemble, sell the crank and rods if possible, then have it bored 20over for my pistons, slap in new rings, ...voila. RIGHT? HAHAHA


ps> ONLY thing I'm not sure on.... The crank main journals, etc., .... once I have the block bored, etc., ...can I find out myself if it'll be ok to slap in my crank I have now, etc.? Or is it best to let the machine shop do that as well? WIM is, ...if I start with new bearings, or keep these bearings... what am I looking to do, besides plastiguage? Will the journals need to be machined as well? Etc.??? Thanx!!!!!!!

PSS> Off to pick up the block right now! Hope it's in good shape!

jason in tn

mark I would let the shop mic the crank journals just to be safe and it cheap insurance my guess is they would be fine but you wanna know for sure, I don't know about reusing the bearing in a different block but I guess it would probably be OK I used to pull them out

nvtoyota

i would have the machine shop do the crank journals and have them test your crank they can also tell you if you need to get anything special for assembly that way if you need over sized bearings or what not you know also if the crank needs to be machined they sell cranks that are over sized i believe but it would be best to know that way you can weigh you options first good luck chef

jason in tn

decide anything yet inquiring minds and bored truck drivers want to know, jk man just checkin in.

xxxtreme22r

chef if your gonna bore the block out, I highly recommend getting the rings and pistons first before taking the block to the shop. this way they can finish hone to the pistons and not just a number. And if you ask them nicely maybe they will also gap your rings for ya. Take the rods too so you can also have them checked. If they have to cut the rods, I highly recommend having the block decked along with it this way the piston tops stay flush with the face of the block. And if the block has to be decked don't forget to give them your timing cover as that will have to get shaved with the block too.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Wow, THANKS A LOT, guys! I REALLY, REALLY appreciate the input, I do! Not trying to be sappy.... i'm serious, ...lol. After all I've been through, it feels good to do as much as I can myself, and then hear it drive out the garage within a week or so!

Ok, sooooooooooooooo.................

Well guys ,..... I have a block. Doesn't look bad at all. Of course, .... a machinist will have to double check that, but I'm fairly sure it's NEVER been opened up(maybe a re-ring, but I doubt it)... as it has nothing but Toyota Pistons in it. The Crank Journals look ok, but I'm sure they need a buffing, and it DEFINITELY needs a hot tank, tapping of a few bolt holes, etc.(lil rusty in a couple, not too bad though).

Just curious..... do many choose to re-use the Toyota pistons if they can, ...just re-ringing and bearings, etc., then driving away? lol. Like I said, ..just curious. So neat to see "AISIN" stamped on the pistons I pulled out. lol.

Ok, pics........

Picked it up and snapped a pic, lol....



Got home and tore it down in around 1 hour on the dot..........




Here's one of the pistons.....



It turned over by hand, but with a lil resistance... not sure exactly why, ...i'm not a machinist, lol. But it didn't lock up. I'm assuming it's just because it's sat for a while. Also, not sure what that rusty look is in the pic of the cylinder holes..... when I look with my eye, I can't see, really, ANY rust in the holes(even at the bottom, it looks more like, well, darker, just where the piston stops in the hole.

Anyway, would love some input and just banter. I can't, at least I don't think I can, take it to anyone for hot tanking, etc., until Monday. I'd like him to REALLY clean out the water jackets, oil galleys and channels, etc. Some of the bearings looked a lil scuffed, and I goofed, too.......>>>> I loosened the rod bearing bolts, then cranked it over to get to the other two, ....so when I cranked it over again to pull the 1 and 4 holes rod caps... the bearings had rolled over on top of each other, partially....so I can't really tell if I caused them to kink a lil on the edged or not(I think so). But anyway, from the look of the crank journals below the bearings.... it looks pretty good to me.... which means nothing! lol.

Thanks again, guys, for the vote of "DO IT YOURSELF", ..... unless I run into some questionable stuff, or run out of time completely ...I plan on doing so. That first machinist said, "Yeah Mark, ....you'll save quite a bit if I don't have to take it apart, re-assemble, etc.... REALLY prefer doing heads. I do blocks all the time,....but they're a bit more of a pain. Honing, boring out, that's the CAKE stuff, .... for me at least. But, taking the time to reassemble, dis-assemble, .....it's really time I don't have to spare if I can afford it,.....so you'd help me, ...thus, I'll help you, ya feeling me?" hahaha.

jason in tn

I reused the stock pistons in mine mark as long as they are not scored cracked or otherwise damaged you should be fine. glad to see you makin progress man.

Z's Confederate Toy

Right on Chef. Progress is good!! I hope you finally get it right.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

(Everyone Just Checking In..... Check last page for pics of replacement block, etc., etc., lol).............



Hey Jason, .... Well, I wasn't really doing anything but asking, ......actually, .... "Are the Stock Pistons BETTER?" lol. Remember, ...I have pistons already 20-over in the block I have now, not even 5000 Miles old. Same with the bearings, etc. Also, the crank was fully balanced to the flywheel(?), as he had marks on them for me to mount accordingly and marks on the new clutch pressure plate even(not sure what he did there, ....I'm still learning). Anyhow.... I know, I should probably re-do the rings and bearings, ...but was actually asking on the 'pistons' question because, well, if I used the Toyota Pistons, I wouldn't have him bore it 20-over, obviously, right? lol.

So do I!!!!! lol. Thanks, Zach, appreciate it.

************************************************** *****

Hey Truckman, Brandon, THOOK? lol, anyone who is really experienced with machine work, or at least 'THIS STUFF'.... Gratefully welcome any input ya might have.

PS> For the couple that gave me the input on how to maybe fix the block I had..... I really appreciate it. I only decided to go the other route here after speaking with Tod, Ted, J.A.C. Builders, Putney's and the guy I took it to that actually specializes in "Block and Aluminum Welding".... He just said, "Man, ...I could never say 'GOOD AS NEW', lol... and, well, for what it would cost to fix, you could start over. I would." And, ..well, I'm tired of 'wondering', so I just figured I should take the more certain route. yeah, I know....NOTHING IS CERTAIN! lol. But seriously, thanks for the input.

PSS> What could I ask for this crank if it's fine?

twistedyota

iTrader: (1)

for the pistons i would use your new ones tht are 20-over, since you know how many miles are on them compared to the xxx,xxx amount on the other ones. as for the bearings im not sur on those, always replaced them. but if you wanted to use them you would have to make a few measurments.
with the bearings out of the old engine:
remove the crank then install your main caps back on with out the crank and bearings and torque them to spec and take 3 measurments
-1 straight up and down
-1 at an angle like this / but of a 45 degree
-1 at an angle liks this \ but also at a 45 degree
so you would have an x with a line going up and down.

then you would have to do the same thing with the new-to-you block. i know their will be some differances but if the are close then they should work. but i dont know how close is close you would have to ask a machine shop.

but with those measurments you can tell if the crank journals are differant sizes between the 2 blocks.

but back to the pistons. if you want to use your newer ones then you will have to have the block bored. if you dont want to do tht then you will want the machine shop to look at the block and see if the cylinder walls are good and DO NOT have to me bored out. if they are good and all pistons look good then you can go tht route.

i would think using the stock pistons would be a cheaper route but on the other hand if you spent the money on the bore you know you have almost brand new pistons tht theoretically should last longer then the stock pistons.

hope anything i said helps

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

HEY TWISTED, ....OF COURSE it helps! lol...

Just to clarify;

1. I'm not trying to necessarily 'save money', unless something I plan on doing is redundant, ya know?

2. I was PLANNING on ordering new bearings, rings, for .20 over cylinders and bearing journals(new rings for my newer 4500 mile 20-over pistons)....

3. I also want him(or I will) to chase and tap out the threads that seem questionable.(bit of rust in some)

4. I'm cleaning the deck up as much as possible to find out if there's any 'spots' that will require a decking.... I don't think so. Pretty sure it just needs to be resurfaced/sanded a lil bit. I'll check for warping, etc.

5. There's more but I can't remember right now, lol.

************************************************** *********

Questions;

1. Does the machinist need to measure the journal depth before ordering new bearings? I'm PRETTY sure this is the original crank and bearings..... and while I think it might have spun the 2 and 3 rod bearings, ...... it didn't seem to have damaged the rod or crank bearing journals. But, THIS IS where I'm a lil confused.......

2. I would be using all the MAIN crank bearing caps from THIS NEW BLOCK, CORRECT?

3. If ''YES'' to #2, .....would I be better off using the OTHER CRANK that's in my 4500 mile block? OR SHOULD I JUST use the crank that I took out of the short block I just got?(If it's in good shape of course). The crank in my 4500 mile motor was SUPPOSEDLY 'low miles' and all cleaned up, etc.(This crank i just got has no cog key extra wear, etc..... Doesn't seem to need a sleeve or anything, ya know?

************************************************** **********

Pretty sure the last machinist, who did my 4500 mile old motor, just shined up my 4500 mile crank journals and crank surfaces.... But I'm not sure. What I mean is, ......I don't know if he got that crank and then had to grind any of it's surfaces away, ya know? I MIGHT call him,......but I don't think he'd remember, guys......and I can understand that, ....it's been a while. I guess I'm just wondering if the Crank in my original motor could just pop right in a cleaned up replacement blocks journals...Because other than those 5 main jounals, the other 4 would be my NEWER, 20-over pistons and rods and caps..... RIGHT? Seems like, if the new blocks crank journals and caps would have to be identical in Inner diameter in order to swap my own crank into this new block.... Maybe the Main Bearings would be different from the rod to crank bearings? ............

oh forget it, I need some help on this one. hahaha

Also... what are the best bearings I can get? lol. (Brand).....>>> King?

Z's Confederate Toy

Clevite 77 on the bearings. They are prolly gonna be the best out there. That is what we used in the race 351w stroker and in prior 22r's. My buddy also uses them in his sprint cars.

truckman1966

the ONLY bearings to use.

I would use the crank, rods, pistons, and bearings if they don't look scored. have the machinist check the crank line bore on the block and obviously bore, hone and new rings on the pistons. you'll be fine with that. no need to spend money on things that don't need to be done.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

THANX! That's what I'm talkin bout sirrrrrrrrrr! lol.

I've used them in a couple hot rods my brother in laws and I built. Unfortunately, they did the whole 'crank fitment' stuff's. I just helped put them back together, ya know?

Putney's uses "King" bearings, ...that's why I mentioned them, solely.

Basically, I'll be starting at "0 MILES" once again, ...BUT NOT with the CAM and Rocker pads. However, I've been told by more than one respected machinist..... "NOW, sir, is the time to upgrade to some new valve springs. In fact.... you might have had some of your problems due to them! The missing, etc. See, when you break in a new CAM, it is best to do it with softer springs. Once it's broken in, THEN you can swap in some brand new ones. All they're doing is CLOSING your valves...... So, while they would run a lil tighter on the cam lobes now, with the new ones, ...they WILL CLOSE, FOR SURE, on the seats, every time. I think your machinist you used re used the springs and guides and valves. Intake valves, .....totally normal. Exhaust? NO WAY, always toss the orig.'s!!! Far as the springs, now that it's 'BROKEN IN'(the cam),.... you can go with tighter springs and I BET you'll lose your miss, EXCEPT for if some of it is Ignition or EFI related. from what you said, you've TRIPLE tested all of that, many times, .... nothing comes up. Maybe it's time for new springs as well as the new guides to go with the new valve set you have ready to put in??????"

That sound right to you guys?

So far, I have a lil list developing for Monday

1. Drop off block to start with at least/and probably most/ a hot tanking

2. Order the guides, Springs, Seals. Then Rings, Bearings for my 20-overs

3. Get the kit out so I can properly chase the threads that look like crap

4. Pick up all the oil, etc., and more gear oil for my Trans(need to get to that trans front seal asap).

There's more, but I'm being summoned! lol. .

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

OOOOOH, thanks, just saw this, AFTER I'd typed that out! lol.

Ok, so, ............

1. Make sure the Crank Journal Bore on the new block will match up to my replacement Crank that I'm taking out of my 4500 mile motor?

2. Slap in the bearings from the 4500 mile motor and the crank once it's checked out.

3. Swap over my rod bearings and pistons with new rings, using the 4500 mile piston rods and bearings and caps on my 4500 mile refinished crank(because they're already working on that crank, right?)

So if anything, IF NEEDED, I'd MAYBE be replacing the Main Bearings if he says they're needed???????? (Along, of course, with the new rings)

twistedyota

iTrader: (1)

you are on the right path

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, Twisted, appreciate it!

Any further confirmation/input to add to that, guys?

************************************************** ***********

Ok, ...so I'm really getting it to sink in, ...I THINK,....hahaha.

1. My last builder found another crank....... I have NO CLUE if he just polished everything up and slapped it in with standard size bearings, ......or if he bored out the crank/rod/+caps to fit a slightly ground crank and ordered a lil bit 'THICKER' bearing for the 'MAIN' and 'ROD END' ones that "LAY IN" the crank/block. (SO FAR SO GOOD?)

2. When I lay this crank in the replacement block, ....

.....A. I MIGHT have to do some work do the blocks crank/bearing journals and caps,...but....
.....B. I most likely would NOT have to do anything to the Rod ends/caps and could re-use the bearings if they're in good shape, ....because nothing would have changed.

3. Brandon.... Could you elaborate on those couple lil extra things I could have done by the guy(regarding the ring deal and such?)

Thanks, guys,

Mark